Seemingly trivial things that annoy you

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Other things that annoy me.

Press reports of the mRNA vaccine company bosses earning a lot of money the last 2 years.

Of course they've earned a lot of money. Of all the people who deserve to have earned a lot of money, the firms and the staff behind the vaccines should be right up there?!

Did the press reports say anything about the staff behind the vaccines earning a lot of money?

You don't think running the company that develops this stuff is worth much?

I think only that person, or small group of people, have renumeration that reflects this. The scientists will not, the inventors will receive a book token of theor name is on a patent (in most companies)

Still sure the right people are getting rich?

Depends what's in your contract I guess. Otherwise who decides who the right people are?

You don't think the people who invented a vaccine that has saved hundreds of thousands of lives are the right people?

No-one saying that tbf. Because they're not on the board their comp doesn't need to be disclosed.

I did NCT with someone who work at AZ and they were on the periphery of the jab work and they did pretty well out of it themselves by the sounds of it.

It is very rare for there to be anything other than a modest lump sum for being an inventor named on a patent, regardless of the actual value of that patent. Ive heard of numbers like £500 or £1000, that ball park.

Sometimes, rarely, a particularly valuable patent commands more inventor compensation. In a company I worked for, because it was self evidently equitable (a technology was sold for several million, including the IP), they made some payments beyond contractual obligation.

Academics get a much better deal, often based on income generated by IP, but so many university inventions are early stage, badly commercialised and/or not helped by the academics themselves, it is normally a moot point.

FYI in UK law an invention belongs to your employer automatically under most circumstances, unless a contract gives an inventor more rights. The bar for financial reward is very high. So the UK is very business friendly, but not employee inventor friendly.

Ben6899

veronese68 said:

Londoners referring to the sticks is very much tongue in cheek. It bears no resemblance to the real world. There are some people that won't live beyond the outer reaches of zone 2 🙄

Hi!

(nearly in Zone 1)

pblakeney

On the subject of employee renumeration this was a while ago (early '80s), wasn't trivial and still rankles.
Company was struggling and came up with scheme that any suggestions that saved money would result in a 10% of the savings as a bonus in the first year. I came up with a design process that would save 10s of thousands every year.
What did I receive? Nada, zilch, nowt, except redundancy a year later.
The company went bust within 5 years. Sod 'em. 🤬

I've had similar with loyalty bonuses that were due and not paid. I made up the shortfall by moving and getting an increase. Company promises? Sod 'em. 🤬

pangolin

pblakeney said:

On the subject of employee renumeration this was a while ago (early '80s), wasn't trivial and still rankles.
Company was struggling and came up with scheme that any suggestions that saved money would result in a 10% of the savings as a bonus in the first year. I came up with a design process that would save 10s of thousands every year.
What did I receive? Nada, zilch, nowt, except redundancy a year later.
The company went bust within 5 years. Sod 'em. 🤬

I've had similar with loyalty bonuses that were due and not paid. I made up the shortfall by moving and getting an increase. Company promises? Sod 'em. 🤬

Did they implement your design process?

pblakeney

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

On the subject of employee renumeration this was a while ago (early '80s), wasn't trivial and still rankles.
Company was struggling and came up with scheme that any suggestions that saved money would result in a 10% of the savings as a bonus in the first year. I came up with a design process that would save 10s of thousands every year.
What did I receive? Nada, zilch, nowt, except redundancy a year later.
The company went bust within 5 years. Sod 'em. 🤬

I've had similar with loyalty bonuses that were due and not paid. I made up the shortfall by moving and getting an increase. Company promises? Sod 'em. 🤬

Did they implement your design process?

Yes. Chasing it up was a dead end rabbit hole.
The loyalty one was "an administrative error" in saying that it was due.

pangolin

pblakeney said:

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

On the subject of employee renumeration this was a while ago (early '80s), wasn't trivial and still rankles.
Company was struggling and came up with scheme that any suggestions that saved money would result in a 10% of the savings as a bonus in the first year. I came up with a design process that would save 10s of thousands every year.
What did I receive? Nada, zilch, nowt, except redundancy a year later.
The company went bust within 5 years. Sod 'em. 🤬

I've had similar with loyalty bonuses that were due and not paid. I made up the shortfall by moving and getting an increase. Company promises? Sod 'em. 🤬

Did they implement your design process?

Yes. Chasing it up was a dead end rabbit hole.
The loyalty one was "an administrative error" in saying that it was due.

Wasn't very effective then!

Only winding you up. Yep often best off voting with your feet.

morstar

pblakeney said:

On the subject of employee renumeration this was a while ago (early '80s), wasn't trivial and still rankles.
Company was struggling and came up with scheme that any suggestions that saved money would result in a 10% of the savings as a bonus in the first year. I came up with a design process that would save 10s of thousands every year.
What did I receive? Nada, zilch, nowt, except redundancy a year later.
The company went bust within 5 years. Sod 'em. 🤬

I've had similar with loyalty bonuses that were due and not paid. I made up the shortfall by moving and getting an increase. Company promises? Sod 'em. 🤬

Quite.

On a different but similarly selfish note from employers… Back in the 90’s the government came up with some form of corporate share scheme whereby you’d pay less tax and the money saved would go to your employer in exchange for a profit share.

A well intended scheme aimed at engaging employees in the overall success of the business rather than just as a wage slave.

Corporations all over the country found ways to siphon off the savings and only make partial returns to employees. Got canned very quickly. I remember my own employer at the time managing to make it so I would only see 40% of the net benefit the government had intended and only if the company performed well. They had taken a direct cost saving regardless. I was quite glad when they went under shortly after that.

pblakeney

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

On the subject of employee renumeration this was a while ago (early '80s), wasn't trivial and still rankles.
Company was struggling and came up with scheme that any suggestions that saved money would result in a 10% of the savings as a bonus in the first year. I came up with a design process that would save 10s of thousands every year.
What did I receive? Nada, zilch, nowt, except redundancy a year later.
The company went bust within 5 years. Sod 'em. 🤬

I've had similar with loyalty bonuses that were due and not paid. I made up the shortfall by moving and getting an increase. Company promises? Sod 'em. 🤬

Did they implement your design process?

Yes. Chasing it up was a dead end rabbit hole.
The loyalty one was "an administrative error" in saying that it was due.

Wasn't very effective then!

Only winding you up. Yep often best off voting with your feet.

Yeah well, one of their "genius" ideas was to sell a few units to China with full design packages. China was then selling them for less than our raw material cost. Burst, obs.

TheBigBean

Ben6899 said:

veronese68 said:

Londoners referring to the sticks is very much tongue in cheek. It bears no resemblance to the real world. There are some people that won't live beyond the outer reaches of zone 2 🙄

Hi!

(nearly in Zone 1)

Suburbia then.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Other things that annoy me.

Press reports of the mRNA vaccine company bosses earning a lot of money the last 2 years.

Of course they've earned a lot of money. Of all the people who deserve to have earned a lot of money, the firms and the staff behind the vaccines should be right up there?!

Did the press reports say anything about the staff behind the vaccines earning a lot of money?

You don't think running the company that develops this stuff is worth much?

I think only that person, or small group of people, have renumeration that reflects this. The scientists will not, the inventors will receive a book token of theor name is on a patent (in most companies)

Still sure the right people are getting rich?

Depends what's in your contract I guess. Otherwise who decides who the right people are?

You don't think the people who invented a vaccine that has saved hundreds of thousands of lives are the right people?

No-one saying that tbf. Because they're not on the board their comp doesn't need to be disclosed.

I did NCT with someone who work at AZ and they were on the periphery of the jab work and they did pretty well out of it themselves by the sounds of it.

It is very rare for there to be anything other than a modest lump sum for being an inventor named on a patent, regardless of the actual value of that patent. Ive heard of numbers like £500 or £1000, that ball park.

Sometimes, rarely, a particularly valuable patent commands more inventor compensation. In a company I worked for, because it was self evidently equitable (a technology was sold for several million, including the IP), they made some payments beyond contractual obligation.

Academics get a much better deal, often based on income generated by IP, but so many university inventions are early stage, badly commercialised and/or not helped by the academics themselves, it is normally a moot point.

FYI in UK law an invention belongs to your employer automatically under most circumstances, unless a contract gives an inventor more rights. The bar for financial reward is very high. So the UK is very business friendly, but not employee inventor friendly.

Just a thought, but I would suggest that the inventor would be far less likely to develop the vaccine without the highly equipped lab and resources that their employer provides. Much of the research the business owners fund will also lead to dead ends. Most creative enterprises are very much a team effort rather than an individual genius.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Other things that annoy me.

Press reports of the mRNA vaccine company bosses earning a lot of money the last 2 years.

Of course they've earned a lot of money. Of all the people who deserve to have earned a lot of money, the firms and the staff behind the vaccines should be right up there?!

Did the press reports say anything about the staff behind the vaccines earning a lot of money?

You don't think running the company that develops this stuff is worth much?

I think only that person, or small group of people, have renumeration that reflects this. The scientists will not, the inventors will receive a book token of theor name is on a patent (in most companies)

Still sure the right people are getting rich?

Depends what's in your contract I guess. Otherwise who decides who the right people are?

You don't think the people who invented a vaccine that has saved hundreds of thousands of lives are the right people?

No-one saying that tbf. Because they're not on the board their comp doesn't need to be disclosed.

I did NCT with someone who work at AZ and they were on the periphery of the jab work and they did pretty well out of it themselves by the sounds of it.

It is very rare for there to be anything other than a modest lump sum for being an inventor named on a patent, regardless of the actual value of that patent. Ive heard of numbers like £500 or £1000, that ball park.

Sometimes, rarely, a particularly valuable patent commands more inventor compensation. In a company I worked for, because it was self evidently equitable (a technology was sold for several million, including the IP), they made some payments beyond contractual obligation.

Academics get a much better deal, often based on income generated by IP, but so many university inventions are early stage, badly commercialised and/or not helped by the academics themselves, it is normally a moot point.

FYI in UK law an invention belongs to your employer automatically under most circumstances, unless a contract gives an inventor more rights. The bar for financial reward is very high. So the UK is very business friendly, but not employee inventor friendly.

Just a thought, but I would suggest that the inventor would be far less likely to develop the vaccine without the highly equipped lab and resources that their employer provides. Much of the research the business owners fund will also lead to dead ends. Most creative enterprises are very much a team effort rather than an individual genius.

Indeed this is the basis of the law in the UK and many other countries.

Yet the CEO benefits to some degree proportionally, having not done anything differently in their own role.

Just an observation that perhaps the boundary in the UK isn't quite right. There would be unintended consequences if companies started handing out large inventor rewards - such as inventors quitting and taking up golf - but on the other hand would companies stimulate IP generation, and commitment to developing it, if there was more than a financial token gesture available at the end of the day?

- separate point, inventorship isn't defined, but you can say what it isn't. It isn't routine experimentation. So if you think of something and ask a person or a team of people to run some test to verify it, or make a prototype, those people aren't inventors. Notionally, their role would be identical if they were working on something that wasn't an invention.

rick_chasey

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

masjer

This might not be popular, but too much TV and radio air time devoted to transgender. Virtually every news broadcast now and going back years. For such a tiny proportion of society and with so many other major world problems, does the issue have to be discussed daily.

JimD666

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

Do you understand that I know infinitely more about this that you do?

pinno

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

Do you understand that I know infinitely more about this that you do?

So what's wrong with what I've written?

masjer

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

I am wondering what's in the parcel.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

Do you understand that I know infinitely more about this that you do?

So what's wrong with what I've written?

It doesn't add anything. It is one of those posts that looks like it might show some further insight, but it doesn't. It just repeats, with willymeters, what someone else said uptrend. Hth.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

Do you understand that I know infinitely more about this that you do?

So what's wrong with what I've written?

It doesn't add anything. It is one of those posts that looks like it might show some further insight, but it doesn't. It just repeats, with willymeters, what someone else said uptrend. Hth.

I'm just curious as I can look on the database here or ask my colleagues and see what people in places like Pfizer are earning in various roles (including the teams that develop things like vaccines and drugs) and they do get fairly decent pay packets and performance related bonuses, so I'm surpried you seem to think that the people involved get given a "book token".

JimD666

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

Add 7 miles SW of Penzance.

EDIT: Thats habit calling it SW. Actually straight west from PZ,

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

Do you understand that I know infinitely more about this that you do?

So what's wrong with what I've written?

It doesn't add anything. It is one of those posts that looks like it might show some further insight, but it doesn't. It just repeats, with willymeters, what someone else said uptrend. Hth.

I'm just curious as I can look on the database here or ask my colleagues and see what people in places like Pfizer are earning in various roles (including the teams that develop things like vaccines and drugs) and they do get fairly decent pay packets and performance related bonuses, so I'm surpried you seem to think that the people involved get given a "book token".

We aren't talking about the same thing really.

Technical people in industry tend not to have much in the way of bonus - last time I was a candidate it was normally zero, albeit as a graduate. More recently looked at some in house legal positions and was in the 10% range. Working assumption was that t&Cs would be the same regardless of whether you were administrative or technical, but could be mistaken about that.

So, based on what I glean mainly from my clients, there's a small lever but it is normally contingent partly on overall company performance to see whether bonuses are awarded and the % cap, and then on personal performance. Tends to squeeze everyone into some (for terrible employees), most (for most employees) or all (for outstanding employees) bonus categories, so there's not much of a lever for a company to pull to distinguish between someone who discovered penicillin and someone who ran the tests that the person who discovered penicillin told them to run.

If a patent application is filed, some companies offer a flat payment to inventors, some wait until grant, some create a more complex internal award competition. I've never come across a % share model outside of academia and the only guy I knew who got rich as an inventor/employee of a large organisation was indeed an academic.

SMEs are much more variable obviously, and tend to offer shares and things like that, which either end up worthless or lucrative for the people who got in early. Again though, not necessarily measured by innovative contribution - although it can be.

Interested to know if Pfizer, as a US based company, offers something different (although some of my clients also do health care and are also US based).

rick_chasey

Is this experience related to big pharma specifically?

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

Is this experience related to big pharma specifically?

All sorts. Aerospace, medical devices, petrochem, not big pharma. But I don't see why it would be different.

pinno

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Given the average cost to develop an new drug is around $1.3bn, I suspect it's not as straightforward as giving 5 people a big bonus.

Do you understand that I know infinitely more about this that you do?

So what's wrong with what I've written?

It doesn't add anything. It is one of those posts that looks like it might show some further insight, but it doesn't. It just repeats, with willymeters, what someone else said uptrend. Hth.

Like.

pinno

JimD666 said:

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

Add 7 miles SW of Penzance.

EDIT: Thats habit calling it SW. Actually straight west from PZ,

So I wasn't far off first time

pinno

masjer said:

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

I am wondering what's in the parcel.

A wetsuit?

masjer

pinno said:

masjer said:

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

I am wondering what's in the parcel.

A wetsuit?

Pirate outfit?

JimD666

pinno said:

masjer said:

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

I am wondering what's in the parcel.

A wetsuit?

masjer said:

pinno said:

masjer said:

pinno said:

JimD666 said:

UPS Delivery Emails. "Your parcel is out for Delivery" Quick check of the tracking and apparently it is indeed out for delivery.

From Castle Donnington.

320 miles away.

Yeah that isn't turning up today.

Trying to work out where (roughly) you could be in the UK to be 320 miles away and not in the sea.
Castle Donnington (Derbyshire) to Penzance... 311 miles. Nope.
You must be North of the border.

I am wondering what's in the parcel.

A wetsuit?

Pirate outfit?

Insulin infusion sets for the OH if you really want to know. Not as interesting but far more important

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Is this experience related to big pharma specifically?

All sorts. Aerospace, medical devices, petrochem, not big pharma. But I don't see why it would be different.

Different industries have different pay cultures, often substantially. Even for like-for-like roles. So I'm of the view it is quite different.

I appreciate you know infinitely more about this than me ( ) but I literally have the data in front of me which suggests those at the big pharma firms associated with the vaccines did see some reward for it.