Jens.

dmclite-3.0

I really hope in the light of what is happening about doping and all the subsequent revelations with lots of riders that Jens Voight rode clean. not that there has been anything about him, just that I was shocked at Bobby Julich and amazed at SKY's reaction.

I would be distraught.

RichN95.

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

emadden

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

+1000

It was as obvious as the difference between night and day that one hit wonder Bobby was not riding paniaqua


As for Jens... coooommmeeeeee oooon! Clean? Yah, right. " Show me your friends..." and all that

dmclite-3.0

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

nathancom

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

Why? Would you want self confessed dopers acting as coaches in other sports? It is only that so few are unmarked by doping and that the doping is so exposed in cycling that this kind of question is even a question...

timoid.

nathancom wrote:

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

Why? Would you want self confessed dopers acting as coaches in other sports? It is only that so few are unmarked by doping and that the doping is so exposed in cycling that this kind of question is even a question...

You see a doper. I see a guy who doped, then had the moral fortitude to turn away from it, in the process going from a Tour podium to an also ran. Then had the honesty to admit it, albeit years later.

Who better to teach young riders to avoid dope than someone who understands it and turned away from it?

nathancom

Timoid. wrote:

nathancom wrote:

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

Why? Would you want self confessed dopers acting as coaches in other sports? It is only that so few are unmarked by doping and that the doping is so exposed in cycling that this kind of question is even a question...

You see a doper. I see a guy who doped, then had the moral fortitude to turn away from it, in the process going from a Tour podium to an also ran. Then had the honesty to admit it, albeit years later.

Who better to teach young riders to avoid dope than someone who understands it and turned away from it?

I certainly hope these people will be able to build useful lives for themselves despite their doping past, but I am not sure they should have a role in professional sport if they have been willing to cross that line. Again, I think it is mostly the lack of non dopers in cycling that make them appear suitable. Would Ben Jonson be able to coach sprinters?

timoid.

nathancom wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

nathancom wrote:

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

Why? Would you want self confessed dopers acting as coaches in other sports? It is only that so few are unmarked by doping and that the doping is so exposed in cycling that this kind of question is even a question...

You see a doper. I see a guy who doped, then had the moral fortitude to turn away from it, in the process going from a Tour podium to an also ran. Then had the honesty to admit it, albeit years later.

Who better to teach young riders to avoid dope than someone who understands it and turned away from it?

I certainly hope these people will be able to build useful lives for themselves despite their doping past, but I am not sure they should have a role in professional sport if they have been willing to cross that line. Again, I think it is mostly the lack of non dopers in cycling that make them appear suitable. Would Ben Jonson be able to coach sprinters?

Ben Johnson was an unrepentant doper who got back on the gear as soon as he was allowed to compete again. Jullich stepped away from it 14 years ago.

You cannot compare the two.

Should we now run Millar, Vaughters, Vandevelde out of the sport? How about Kelly. Why should someone with two doping positives be allowed to commentate on cycling?

rick_chasey

Every cycling fan is a hypocrit when it comes to doping.

Some of us are just honest about it .

Le Commentateur

I think the topic is ultimately unresolvable either way, which is why it is such a potent one for the sporting debaters in forums.

MrT

Rick Chasey wrote:

Every cycling fan is a hypocrit when it comes to doping.

Some of us are just honest about it .

Don't you mean hematocrit

No_Ta_Doctor

Rick Chasey wrote:

Every cycling fan is a hypocrit when it comes to doping.

Some of us are just honest about it .

Speak for yourself.

Anonymous

It seems people are blaming David and the system for this. Surely it's pretty clear that this is the instruction from Sky as a sponsor - 100% clean, no skeletons, or we pull the plug. I think Sky has built a good culture that these people are stepping aside, in spite of their good intentions, to ensure that there is a future for the team and the upcoming riders and their headline sponsor. The big problem is that now the team don't have anyone who the kids can talk to when contador zooms off the front or decides to have a barbeque...

shinyhelmut

nathancom wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

nathancom wrote:

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

Why? Would you want self confessed dopers acting as coaches in other sports? It is only that so few are unmarked by doping and that the doping is so exposed in cycling that this kind of question is even a question...

You see a doper. I see a guy who doped, then had the moral fortitude to turn away from it, in the process going from a Tour podium to an also ran. Then had the honesty to admit it, albeit years later.

Who better to teach young riders to avoid dope than someone who understands it and turned away from it?

I certainly hope these people will be able to build useful lives for themselves despite their doping past, but I am not sure they should have a role in professional sport if they have been willing to cross that line. Again, I think it is mostly the lack of non dopers in cycling that make them appear suitable. Would Ben Jonson be able to coach sprinters?

Ben Johnson does coach sprinters.

nathancom

ShinyHelmut wrote:

nathancom wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

nathancom wrote:

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why would you be shocked that the person who came third in the Festina Tour was doping?

14 years ago and he now loses a non riding job ? Its a bit much, innit ?

Why? Would you want self confessed dopers acting as coaches in other sports? It is only that so few are unmarked by doping and that the doping is so exposed in cycling that this kind of question is even a question...

You see a doper. I see a guy who doped, then had the moral fortitude to turn away from it, in the process going from a Tour podium to an also ran. Then had the honesty to admit it, albeit years later.

Who better to teach young riders to avoid dope than someone who understands it and turned away from it?

I certainly hope these people will be able to build useful lives for themselves despite their doping past, but I am not sure they should have a role in professional sport if they have been willing to cross that line. Again, I think it is mostly the lack of non dopers in cycling that make them appear suitable. Would Ben Jonson be able to coach sprinters?

Ben Johnson does coach sprinters.

Where is he training and what sprinters has he coached?

shinyhelmut

He lives in Canada. I think he's involved in coaching juniors but I've lent my copy of "The Dirtiest Race In History" to a friend so can't check the details.

Rodrego Hernandez

Linford Christie coaches sprinters too.

Skys policy, though well intentioned, is likely to reinforce omerta. It doesn't differentiate between actively being involved in a team wide doping program or taking a pain killer / cold cure that was on the banned list.

Can't help but think that Vaughters has the right idea.

As for the notion that ex-dopers are taking jobs from clean riders both as riders and team staff. That's a whole different argument and one that I can't see a good solution too.

shinyhelmut

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Linford Christie coaches sprinters too.

So he has, including several GB olympians.

bipedal

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Linford Christie coaches sprinters too.

So he has, including several GB olympians.

UK athletics community has a very holier than thou view of doping: on the one hand they are hardline and want lifetime Olympic bans, on the other they whinge that the likes of Ohurugu should get any suspension at all for missing multiple tests

Richmond Racer

bipedal wrote:

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Linford Christie coaches sprinters too.

So he has, including several GB olympians.

UK athletics community has a very holier than thou view of doping: on the one hand they are hardline and want lifetime Olympic bans, on the other they whinge that the likes of Ohurugu should get any suspension at all for missing multiple tests

Very true. Inconsistency personified.

andy_wrx

Oh but Christine is such a nice girl, she couldn't possibly be doping, that only happens with those unpleasant foreign people


:roll:

rundle

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

I really hope in the light of what is happening about doping and all the subsequent revelations with lots of riders that Jens Voight rode clean. not that there has been anything about him, just that I was shocked at Bobby Julich and amazed at SKY's reaction.

I would be distraught.

Are you serious?

He came out of the east german sports system.

They are well known for being drug free.

iainf72

coriordan wrote:

It seems people are blaming David and the system for this. Surely it's pretty clear that this is the instruction from Sky as a sponsor - 100% clean, no skeletons, or we pull the plug. I think Sky has built a good culture that these people are stepping aside, in spite of their good intentions, to ensure that there is a future for the team and the upcoming riders and their headline sponsor. The big problem is that now the team don't have anyone who the kids can talk to when contador zooms off the front or decides to have a barbeque...

I think you're right about it being from the sponsor. Because if it was a DB thing, surely it would apply to BC too? And it doesn't seem too, so....

I wonder if Sky's parent company will apply the same rigour to phone hacking and that kind of thing? No, didn't think so.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

I wonder if Sky's parent company will apply the same rigour to phone hacking and that kind of thing? No, didn't think so.

I'm still waiting for David Walsh to speak out about it. After all it was at the company at which he's a senior journalist.

I guess he's "shocked, never saw anything, never knew anything, it happened on a different 'team', it was a long time ago, the culture has changed etc"

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

I guess he's "shocked, never saw anything, never knew anything, it happened on a different 'team', it was a long time ago, the culture has changed etc"

I line 'em up.....

No one seems to bite on the BC thing. I must be losing my touch.

RichN95.

Here's a big article by Jens: http://bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyseriou ... ent-times/

Even if he's always been clean, it's a little hard to believe. In 20 years he's never saw any doping. Probably in the same way that Ray Charles never saw any drugs in the music industry.

afx237vi

RichN95 wrote:

Here's a big article by Jens: http://bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyseriou ... ent-times/

Even if he's always been clean, it's a little hard to believe. In 20 years he's never saw any doping. Probably in the same way that Ray Charles never saw any drugs in the music industry.

Jens: "SHUT UP EYES".

heavymental

Well there you go. Either Jens is clean or a massive psychopathic liar. Good man he is. Some people need to recognise a genuine good guy. Someone called him an 'odious cnut' in another thread. I don't think you could be further off the mark personally.

MrTapir

Hmm Jens. While everyone seems to have written him off because he was on CSC, he was racing with Bobby Julich and later Brad McGee was part of the team, both of whom have stated there was no organised doping on CSC and both of whom people are generally willing to accept as clean (Julich after 98 obviously). Also Jens raced with Credit Agricole, presumably with Chris Boardman (or did they miss each other?), known generally as a clean team if im not mistaken? When people say 'i never saw any doping', it could easily be true if they mean they never saw someone actually administering or taking dope. Its different to saying 'i never saw anyone riding under the influence of dope'. Because they obviously did.

I think the 'odius cnt' remark was to do with the way he acted about something, heavymental, i may be mistaken.

Richmond Racer

Heavymental wrote:

Well there you go. Either Jens is clean or a massive psychopathic liar. Good man he is. Some people need to recognise a genuine good guy. Someone called him an 'odious cnut' in another thread. I don't think you could be further off the mark personally.

I think that says more about the twat who called him that, than anything.

I reckon the true story is that Jens is incredibly child-like, a rare example of an innocent in a bad world. He wants to believe the best of everyone, and consciously/sub-consciously shields himself from any glimpses into the darker side of someone or something. And just like you try to sheld a young kid from a bad sight or from finding out that about the bad things in life or that Santa doesnt exist, I wouldnt be at all surprised if others went out of their way to do the same with him.

Richmond Racer

MrTapir wrote:

Hmm Jens. While everyone seems to have written him off because he was on CSC, he was racing with Bobby Julich and later Brad McGee was part of the team, both of whom have stated there was no organised doping on CSC and both of whom people are generally willing to accept as clean (Julich after 98 obviously). Also Jens raced with Credit Agricole, presumably with Chris Boardman (or did they miss each other?), known generally as a clean team if im not mistaken? When people say 'i never saw any doping', it could easily be true if they mean they never saw someone actually administering or taking dope. Its different to saying 'i never saw anyone riding under the influence of dope'. Because they obviously did.

I think the 'odius cnt' remark was to do with the way he acted about something, heavymental, i may be mistaken.

I'm sure that Jens and Chris B raced together - they're defo mates.