Drugs in other sports and the media.
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Is this in the UK?Pross said:I was chatting to a colleague yesterday who is putting in distance running performances that mean he should be making regular national squad selection but even though he is putting in times quicker than others he can't get ahead of them which he puts down in part to him fitting into the classic doper profile (didn't run until his early 20s and now in his mid-late 20s appears to have come from nowhere - his progression has been fast but consistent). It probably doesn't help that he coaches himself so it's a bit embarassing for national squads to see him beating the people who have been in the system under their coaches since they were kids.
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Yeah, but just one of the home nations rather than GB. He wouldn't make Olympic qualifying but Commonwealth is possible albeit unlikely (around 29.30 for 10k and 66 minutes for half)yorkshireraw said:
Is this in the UK?Pross said:I was chatting to a colleague yesterday who is putting in distance running performances that mean he should be making regular national squad selection but even though he is putting in times quicker than others he can't get ahead of them which he puts down in part to him fitting into the classic doper profile (didn't run until his early 20s and now in his mid-late 20s appears to have come from nowhere - his progression has been fast but consistent). It probably doesn't help that he coaches himself so it's a bit embarassing for national squads to see him beating the people who have been in the system under their coaches since they were kids.
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Fair play to him. I'd be surprised if anyone was throwing accusations around at that level of perf tho - I've known plenty who ran those sort of times and quicker. May well be a a bit of 'clique' at play esp. as you say he didn't come up through the 'traditional ranks'. I guess there can be a bit of that in all sports but annoying in Athletics where performance is absolute.Pross said:
Yeah, but just one of the home nations rather than GB. He wouldn't make Olympic qualifying but Commonwealth is possible albeit unlikely (around 29.30 for 10k and 66 minutes for half)yorkshireraw said:
Is this in the UK?Pross said:I was chatting to a colleague yesterday who is putting in distance running performances that mean he should be making regular national squad selection but even though he is putting in times quicker than others he can't get ahead of them which he puts down in part to him fitting into the classic doper profile (didn't run until his early 20s and now in his mid-late 20s appears to have come from nowhere - his progression has been fast but consistent). It probably doesn't help that he coaches himself so it's a bit embarassing for national squads to see him beating the people who have been in the system under their coaches since they were kids.
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The guy who came over the line first in the Marmotte on Saturday, Raphaël Addy, failed to provide a sample for anti-doping.
There was a guy, Mikael Gallego, who was doping for Strava KOMs a few years back who got controlled on a local TT.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
Christ - how sad is doping for Strava KOM'sNapoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0
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Shelby Houlihan (American 1500 / 500 runner) has had her ban upheld.
The AIU systematically dismantled her 'I accidently ate meat from an uncastrated boar, at a Mexican food truck, even though I ordered beef' excuse.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/58416199
Apparently there may be further fall out from this case, involving other athletes.0 -
Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.Twitter: @RichN952 -
Why imagine? Look at some of the stuff written after the womens Olympic road race.RichN95. said:Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.0 -
But tennis is a game of skillRichN95. said:Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.
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She also got to the last 16 at Wimbledon however.0
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Indeed - no idea of the mechanics of the rankings but would guess it's a reflection of your last 12 months (or so) in total, not your current form.elbowloh said:She also got to the last 16 at Wimbledon however.
Someone young(ish) who's continuing to improve might be expected to be outplaying their ranking level? Or maybe just better suited to some tournaments / surfaces than others?0 -
You know why though. I will explain it anyway ( I guess this is mansplaining).RichN95. said:Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.
They've not had two full generations where it was so obvious to anyone and everyone watching that in order to be remotely competitive, to be able to even compete for a win, you had to be juiced up to the eyeballs.
Can you imagine the top 10 favourites for wimbeldon pulling out the day before the tournament started because a doctor's surgery got raided? Many of whom would never compete again as a result? Or if it came out that Federer did indeed take vast amount of drugs and lied about it his entire career? And that he pressured other players to take drugs?
When that happens, then we'll see some scepticism about performances that come out of the blue.1 -
I think she got a wildcard at wimbledon (a, becasuse she's British and b because i imagine less overseas players were able to travel) and came through the qualifiers at the US. She'll now rank high enough to get automatic entry to the next Slams.yorkshireraw said:
Indeed - no idea of the mechanics of the rankings but would guess it's a reflection of your last 12 months (or so) in total, not your current form.elbowloh said:She also got to the last 16 at Wimbledon however.
Someone young(ish) who's continuing to improve might be expected to be outplaying their ranking level? Or maybe just better suited to some tournaments / surfaces than others?
She didn't compete in many ranking events before as she was at school doing her A-levels (A* and an A btw).0 -
Didn't one of the Williams sisters do this a few years ago? Said it was period pains and couldn't see the doping doctor for 3 days.rick_chasey said:
You know why though. I will explain it anyway ( I guess this is mansplaining).RichN95. said:Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.
They've not had two full generations where it was so obvious to anyone and everyone watching that in order to be remotely competitive, to be able to even compete for a win, you had to be juiced up to the eyeballs.
Can you imagine the top 10 favourites for wimbeldon pulling out the day before the tournament started because a doctor's surgery got raided? Many of whom would never compete again as a result? Or if it came out that Federer did indeed take vast amount of drugs and lied about it his entire career? And that he pressured other players to take drugs?
When that happens, then we'll see some scepticism about performances that come out of the blue.0 -
I thought her next opponent looked like she really likes the gym. So of course I googled her coach, and from 2020:
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/1446103/barty-sakkari-bring-new-brand-of-tennis-ahead-of-cincinnati-clash
""I have a fitness coach [George Panagiotopoulos] who was in track and field"
and from 2008:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7753518.stm
"Halkia's coach George Panagiotopoulos has been charged with supplying banned substances."
Same guy? I assume so.0 -
She's lowly ranked because she hasn't played many tournaments, because she chose to stay on at school to do her A-levels and Covid hit.
Rick - are you suggesting tennis isn't dirty?
I think it was Serena that hit in her panic room to avoid the testers on a rare visit.
Djokovic said a couple of years ago he hadn't had an out of competition test in over a year, yet was ranked No1 or 2 in the world at the time.
It's like football - if you don't bother to look, you won't find a problem.
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Plus, given that I'm watching the ToB with more interest than usual this year, it does happen in cycling every now and again. The dude into Exeter being a good example...RichN95. said:Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.
Every day there are a bunch of kids in the break being bossed by a WT rider, occasionally they pull it off.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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I think tennis is quite dirty but it's quite obvious why cycling fans see doping everywhere whilst tennis fans don't.0
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rick_chasey said:
I think tennis is quite dirty but it's quite obvious why cycling fans see doping everywhere whilst tennis fans don't.
But how long will it continue? And why do the cycling media seem desperate to manufacture scandals (motors for example). I realise that many know they willfully ignored the biggest story in sport and want a do over. But it's not good for cycling. Those journalists need to be replaced by those not burnt failure during the EPO era.
Twitter: @RichN950 -
Agreed, but it's a living. Jeremy Whittle seems thoroughly disillusioned by cycling and can't ever seem to find anything positive to write. Yet (I think) it's pretty much the only sport he ever writes about. Guess he has bills to pay and editors want the stories, but you'd think he'd be happier doing something else.RichN95. said:rick_chasey said:I think tennis is quite dirty but it's quite obvious why cycling fans see doping everywhere whilst tennis fans don't.
But how long will it continue? And why do the cycling media seem desperate to manufacture scandals (motors for example). I realise that many know they willfully ignored the biggest story in sport and want a do over. But it's not good for cycling. Those journalists need to be replaced by those not burnt failure during the EPO era.0 -
yorkshireraw said:
Agreed, but it's a living. Jeremy Whittle seems thoroughly disillusioned by cycling and can't ever seem to find anything positive to write. Yet (I think) it's pretty much the only sport he ever writes about. Guess he has bills to pay and editors want the stories, but you'd think he'd be happier doing something else.
When he was on the BBC cycling podcast a few years ago he was asked what he was most looking forward to in the next season and he said the Department of Culture & Sport select committee sessions.
Twitter: @RichN950 -
Not cycling but Sean Ingle is another one; chief sports reporter for the Guardian but often seems to hate sport!yorkshireraw said:
Agreed, but it's a living. Jeremy Whittle seems thoroughly disillusioned by cycling and can't ever seem to find anything positive to write. Yet (I think) it's pretty much the only sport he ever writes about. Guess he has bills to pay and editors want the stories, but you'd think he'd be happier doing something else.RichN95. said:rick_chasey said:I think tennis is quite dirty but it's quite obvious why cycling fans see doping everywhere whilst tennis fans don't.
But how long will it continue? And why do the cycling media seem desperate to manufacture scandals (motors for example). I realise that many know they willfully ignored the biggest story in sport and want a do over. But it's not good for cycling. Those journalists need to be replaced by those not burnt failure during the EPO era.0 -
More click bait from these stories I’d imagine.yorkshireraw said:
Agreed, but it's a living. Jeremy Whittle seems thoroughly disillusioned by cycling and can't ever seem to find anything positive to write. Yet (I think) it's pretty much the only sport he ever writes about. Guess he has bills to pay and editors want the stories, but you'd think he'd be happier doing something else.RichN95. said:rick_chasey said:I think tennis is quite dirty but it's quite obvious why cycling fans see doping everywhere whilst tennis fans don't.
But how long will it continue? And why do the cycling media seem desperate to manufacture scandals (motors for example). I realise that many know they willfully ignored the biggest story in sport and want a do over. But it's not good for cycling. Those journalists need to be replaced by those not burnt failure during the EPO era.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
RichN95. said:
Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.
I will use Rich's Op to put this here:RichN95. said:Not a doping story but an observation.
A tennis player ranked 150 in the world has reached the US Open semi finals having had come through the qualifiers. This has been met with delight and positivity. Can you image the sneering and insinuation if this was cycling? And mean from official media, not just socials. Looking at other sports shows to me that cycling is constantly trying to eat itself.
Nonetheless, despite the fact there clearly is opportunity to dope in tennis, as there is in all sports, seldom does anyone gets caught. It has been suggested this might not be by accident.
Tennis’ reputation for being a clean sport may not be because its participants, by and large, refuse to dope. Rather, it may be that there’s nobody really trying to catch them.
If this were true, why might it be the case? Well, for one, anti-doping efforts cost a lot and doping scandals are bad for business. Just ask cycling.
It was also found, among a long list of deficiencies in tennis’ anti-doping crusade, that tennis’ testing rates were on par with lesser profile sports such as handball and kayaking; and that the sports enforcement rates upon finding an adverse test was among the worst of all reported summer Olympic sports.
It was this same investigation that revealed a supplier of performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) considered the sports anti-doping programme a “Mickey Mouse” operation and “something to appease”; as opposed to a programme of real substance. This same supplier claimed to have supplied PEDs to 12-15 current and former pro-male tennis players.
Following the ESPN investigation and Sharapova scandal, the ITF announced they were increasing their fight and allocating a total of $4.5m (USD) to their anti-doping budget.
For context, that is 1.5% of the revenue earned by the US Open, one of the sports seven governing bodies, in 2018.
Alternatively, that is about as much as Novak Djokovic took home for beating Juan Martin Del Potro in the final that same year.
At the time, the President of the ITF, David Haggerty, said “we welcome this strengthening of the sport’s anti-doping efforts”.
“Protecting the integrity of tennis is an ongoing priority of the governing bodies of tennis to ensure that tennis is and remains a clean sport, and these enhancements will make a positive contribution to achieving that priority.”
Despite these assertions it would appear that tennis has a long way to go before becoming a leader in the fight against doping.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/06/its-time-to-talk-about-doping-in-tennis/"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
What a pr4t. No matter how doped the riders, nothing beats seeing them smash over the Roubaix cobbles, or the soaring scenery of the high mountains.RichN95. said:yorkshireraw said:
Agreed, but it's a living. Jeremy Whittle seems thoroughly disillusioned by cycling and can't ever seem to find anything positive to write. Yet (I think) it's pretty much the only sport he ever writes about. Guess he has bills to pay and editors want the stories, but you'd think he'd be happier doing something else.
When he was on the BBC cycling podcast a few years ago he was asked what he was most looking forward to in the next season and he said the Department of Culture & Sport select committee sessions.
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How long it will it continue? As long as there isn't a major doping scandal like in baseball or athletics or cycling.RichN95. said:rick_chasey said:I think tennis is quite dirty but it's quite obvious why cycling fans see doping everywhere whilst tennis fans don't.
But how long will it continue? And why do the cycling media seem desperate to manufacture scandals (motors for example). I realise that many know they willfully ignored the biggest story in sport and want a do over. But it's not good for cycling. Those journalists need to be replaced by those not burnt failure during the EPO era.
And why does the cycling media seem desperate for scandal? Well, doping scandals are box office, and in the land of cycling media those who stood up to lance are now feted as heroes.
The books I enjoyed most about professional cycling were the doping books, I'm not gonna lie.0 -
The other point being that tennis players (and other sports players) seem to be applauded by fans for doing things that are condemned (or even banned) in cycling - painkilling injections to continue playing etc.0
