science vs religion

concorde

cooldad wrote:

Concorde wrote:

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Concorde wrote:

Gervais is a legend! Religion is utterly wanked! Cannot stand it!

There you go then everyone. Discussion over.

It should be. Or we can discuss the invisible teapot that's orbiting my head??? Nobody can tell me there's not one!

I am sure that you do have a head, there's just not a lot inside it.

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you. To believe in something that there is no evidence for and no mechanism of action for how it to be possible is rather stupid! Then again, 99% of religious people cannot comprehend the truth so have to take the easy option of believing complete bullshit!

Northwind

Concorde wrote:

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you.

Most of the greatest minds in history were religious.

welshkev

Northwind wrote:

Concorde wrote:

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you.

Most of the greatest minds in history were religious.

I've always thought there was no link between common sense and intelligence

concorde

Northwind wrote:

Concorde wrote:

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you.

Most of the greatest minds in history were religious.

It's different in this day and age.

concorde

welshkev wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Concorde wrote:

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you.

Most of the greatest minds in history were religious.

I've always thought there was no link between common sense and intelligence

Excellent!

YeehaaMcgee

Concorde wrote:

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you. To believe in something that there is no evidence for and no mechanism of action for how it to be possible is rather stupid! Then again, 99% of religious people cannot comprehend the truth so have to take the easy option of believing complete bullshit!

The need to believe is a human trait. Religions started all all over the wrold from the dawn of early mankind.
The only ignorance showing is your own.

thekickingmule

Concorde wrote:

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you. To believe in something that there is no evidence for and no mechanism of action for how it to be possible is rather stupid! Then again, 99% of religious people cannot comprehend the truth so have to take the easy option of believing complete bullshit!

I think you'd be surprised (and judging how heated you're getting, upset) to discover how many modern day, young scientists are religious.
Out of curiosity, do you have children? Did you tell them about Santa?

Northwind

Concorde wrote:

It's different in this day and age.

Because?

Belief is fundamentally about faith, not logic. I think it possibly does appeal more to the stupid or ignorant, just because it's a simple route to certainty, and analytical people are certainly more likely to find challanges to faith, but to suggest that it's stupid to be religious is... well... stupid.

VWsurfbum

concorde

Telling your kids about Santa is a bit different. There's no harm done, they have a nice childhood then reject the utterly absurd idea. it's a shame adults couldn't do the same with God.

concorde

Northwind wrote:

Concorde wrote:

It's different in this day and age.

Because?

Belief is fundamentally about faith, not logic. I think it possibly does appeal more to the stupid or ignorant, just because it's a simple route to certainty, and analytical people are certainly more likely to find challanges to faith, but to suggest that it's stupid to be religious is... well... stupid.

So if I tell you I believe and have faith that there is an invisible teapot orbiting my head, you can't tell me that it's stupid?

paul.skibum

I don't see why you'd want to go about insulting people for having faith in something you personally do not believe in - tolerance of others ways and behaviours is surely more valuable human trait than forcing everyone to believe what you believe?

I care little for other peoples beliefs and ideologies unless they impact on other people as a consequence for me to attempt to force you not to believe in a teapot circling your head when it doesnt harm me would be akin to say gassing people of a certain religious persuation because I didnt like their noses.

Its best if we all try not to be little hitlers and accept that we all believe different things, sure you can have a discussion about why you believe one thing and not the other but when it ends in a fight then no body wins. see history for more information on that one.

cat_with_no_tail

Generally speaking, there is no harm in religion either.

I'm fairly certain that the majority of the population of the earth considers themselves to be in some way religious.

Of course, from that population, there are a handful of nutters who use religion as an excuse for assorted nefarious goings on. To use that as a basis to decide that all religion is a bad thing is retarded. It's (tenuous link now because this is a cycling forum after all) like saying all cyclists should be banned from using the road because a few of them choose to jump red lights.

Genereally, religion teaches peace, tolerance, and tells people just to be cool with each other. I see no harm in that whatsoever.

concorde

paul.skibum wrote:

I don't see why you'd want to go about insulting people for having faith in something you personally do not believe in - tolerance of others ways and behaviours is surely more valuable human trait than forcing everyone to believe what you believe?

I care little for other peoples beliefs and ideologies unless they impact on other people as a consequence for me to attempt to force you not to believe in a teapot circling your head when it doesnt harm me would be akin to say gassing people of a certain religious persuation because I didnt like their noses.

Its best if we all try not to be little hitlers and accept that we all believe different things, sure you can have a discussion about why you believe one thing and not the other but when it ends in a fight then no body wins. see history for more information on that one.

Didn't insult anybody. It's fact that religion is fucked up! It causes wars! It holds back civilisation years! America was only allowed to do stem cell research when Obama got into power because it was previously banned as America is so religious! It's outrageous!

JamesB5446

I wish some people could see the difference between hating religion and hating religious people.

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

JamesB5446 wrote:

Ad hominem attacks make your opinion more valid. Well done.

welcome to the crudcatcher, you bellend.

Felch my rim, you soppy cuntrag, etc.

Northwind wrote:

Concorde wrote:

It's different in this day and age.

Because?

Belief is fundamentally about faith, not logic. I think it possibly does appeal more to the stupid or ignorant, just because it's a simple route to certainty, and analytical people are certainly more likely to find challanges to faith, but to suggest that it's stupid to be religious is... well... stupid.

Not really. Intelligent people can believe stupid things if they're not inclined to question them.

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Generally speaking, there is no harm in religion either.

Genereally, religion teaches peace, tolerance, and tells people just to be cool with each other. I see no harm in that whatsoever.

Very much disagree with these statements.

cooldad

JamesB5446 wrote:

Ad hominem attacks make your opinion more valid. Well done.

I actually agree with what he said, but this is Crudcatcher and I would be failing in my Cruddie duty if I posted sensible, well balanced arguments.
Which you would have realised if you weren't such a mong.

Northwind

Yeehaa and cooldad have the most valid arguments.

Chunkers1980

Go on then Jameswhateva. Let us know what you disagree with about CWNT's very general views.

YeehaaMcgee

Concorde wrote:

Didn't insult anybody. It's fact that religion is farked up!

I'm pretty sure that your statement from earlier could be considered insulting towards religious folk.
I know all about insulting people, intentionally or otherwise, and in my expert opinion, this has all the hallmarks of a thorough insultation.

Concorde wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I am sure that you do have a head, there's just not a lot inside it.

More than is inside any religious persons head, let me tell you. To believe in something that there is no evidence for and no mechanism of action for how it to be possible is rather stupid! Then again, 99% of religious people cannot comprehend the truth so have to take the easy option of believing complete bullshit!

cooldad

I am an actual, real, genuine bona fide minister.
I can perform marriages, bury people (but not legally in ditches) and baptise small children. And by baptise, I mean baptise, because unlike most of you I am not a practising paedo.
So I can say without fear of contradiction, that whilst fairy stories are fun, it is a bit silly to allow them to run your life.

All of the above is true.
Ordained by this lot
My God

May you be Touched by His Noodly Appendage

YeehaaMcgee

I'll touch your noodly appendage in a minute.

Chunkers1980

You'd like his noodly appendage in you in a minute

paul.skibum

Concorde wrote:

paul.skibum wrote:

I don't see why you'd want to go about insulting people for having faith in something you personally do not believe in - tolerance of others ways and behaviours is surely more valuable human trait than forcing everyone to believe what you believe?

I care little for other peoples beliefs and ideologies unless they impact on other people as a consequence for me to attempt to force you not to believe in a teapot circling your head when it doesnt harm me would be akin to say gassing people of a certain religious persuation because I didnt like their noses.

Its best if we all try not to be little hitlers and accept that we all believe different things, sure you can have a discussion about why you believe one thing and not the other but when it ends in a fight then no body wins. see history for more information on that one.

Didn't insult anybody. It's fact that religion is farked up! It causes wars! It holds back civilisation years! America was only allowed to do stem cell research when Obama got into power because it was previously banned as America is so religious! It's outrageous!

Religion does not cause war - wars are caused by people. People use religion as an excuse for their actions. America is fairly religious its true but stem cell research was banned by Bush as a salve to his religious supporters that got him into power - sure that's f*cked up but I can hardly say that Civilisation has been held back years. The rest of the world wasnt banned.

A vehement attack on religion in its milder forms is counter productive - it polarizes opinion and drives people to more entrenched positions in either corner - I would rather attack the extremes and leave the centre. A bit like politics - extreme rights and lefts are harmful to society where as central politics tends to be for the benefit of society (to one degree or other).

cat_with_no_tail

Exactly, If the majority of the planet is religious, religion is a good way to control a particular population or group of people and get them to do what you want them to do. It's not rocket science, christ, Bush figured it out! I completely agree that religion through history has been, and will continue to be, used by some awful people to do truly evil things, or just to make money. However my point is that if it wasn't religion, it'd be something else.

If it suddenly became a globally accepted fact that the assorted deities don't exist people would still continue to start wars, commit genocide and generally be cnuts to one another, they'd just need to find another "cause" to do it. Nutters would still go out and shoot dozens of people, just the voice in their head wouldn't be God, it'd be the Dog

Religion can help people to deal with some terrible times in their lives, moreso than the ones who use it for bad things. To make a sweeping statement saying that all religion is bad and anyone who is religions is stupid is incredibly short sighted.

I completely, 100% agree with the post above mine.

JamesB5446

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Go on then Jameswhateva. Let us know what you disagree with about CWNT's very general views.

Read the bible or the quorn or the jew bible and you'll understand.

YeehaaMcgee

JamesB5446 wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Go on then Jameswhateva. Let us know what you disagree with about CWNT's very general views.

Read the bible or the quorn or the jew bible and you'll understand.

what a bloody ridiculous answer.
He asked you.

JamesB5446

For fucks sake. Fair enough.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Just a few bible bits. I can post more if you like?

Gazlar

All written by humans

Humans are a) possessive and b) pugilistic religion is just used idly as a means to justify greed. If religion didn't exist then something else would be used, maybe science. You also have to take into account religion was the science of its time lets not be so naive as to think that what we understand today won't subsequently be disproved or argued and laughed at by people in the future or be the cause of disagreement and war

Cleat Eastwood

JamesB5446 wrote:

For f***s sake. Fair enough.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Just a few bible bits. I can post more if you like?

Whu did you spell 'dishonor' in the american way - I mean if you're going to argue agianst the koran, the bible, the talmud it's probably best that you read them rather than just google to satisfy a prejudice - by that token I could say evolution is wrong as it gave us the welsh.

cooldad

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

I could say evolution is wrong as it gave us the welsh.

Fair point, and even more scary - roadies.