Team Sky- position on doping
Comments
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People keep banging on about employment law. All but 3 people employed by Team Sky are on contracts. Contracts up to a year give the contractor relatively little in the way of employment rights when it comes to termination, as long as the employer pays off the remaing term of their contract - and that assumes the contractor hasnt done something to constitute a breach of contract. Contractors with less than a full 12 month contract cant fall back on the same and more stringent employment laws when it comes to things such as termination of employment.
And of course given that this is Oct and assuming that SKy's contracts run 1 Jan-31 Dec, there's probably plenty of contracts kicking around that have not yet been renewed for 2013 anyway.0 -
I prefer the Garmin approach but the Mrs Dombrowski argument is a strong one.iainf72 wrote:rjgr wrote:Ignoring employment law if Brailsford/Sky fire Yates if he signs the declaration based on the potential libel broadcast here and on other blogs he could take them to the cleaners.
.......However, if they don't renew his contract when it next expires .... No issue. Normal commercial decision ....
Go figure.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/dav ... r-team-sky
Read that?
If Brailsford is going to be transparent, anyone going now needs to be explained. He's made this rod for his back, not me.0 -
Mrs D might be offered a job driving the team car at this rate...0
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interesting interview with Froome here
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome- ... -de-france
Some sensible comments. I sense the start of a change of approach by Sky to the media...both Porte and Froome's interviews have been with Cyclingnews, who are usually pretty nuanced in how they cover Sky. Not giving bland comments about doping but responding to questions pretty well, particularly Froome I thought - and 'allowed' to express his own reservations over the Puritan approach being taken, rather than having to tow a party line.0 -
iainf72 wrote:
Interesting one.
DB says he struggled hard with the decision of whether to hire Millar, but then goes ahead and hires Leinders, Yates, Rogers, De Jongh, etc
To me, if you are to run a team which is to be preceived as whiter-than-white, then
- surely it would be better to hire an outspoken anti-doping advocate, someone who admits they doped in the past but now makes loud efforts against it,
- rather than to hire people who might well have skeletons in their cupboards, albeit unproven and perhaps just suspicions/suppositions, but about whom the dirty truth could well be exposed : or even worse could still be still actually unrepentant dopers...
Not employing previously convicted dopers who've served their time but are not repentant, like Contador or Vino, is one thing, but I'd see someone like Millar, as a born-again anti-doping campaigner, as an asset to the team's image.0 -
andy_wrx wrote:iainf72 wrote:
Interesting one.
DB says he struggled hard with the decision of whether to hire Millar, but then goes ahead and hires Leinders, Yates, Rogers, De Jongh, etc
To me, if you are to run a team which is to be preceived as whiter-than-white, then
- surely it would be better to hire an outspoken anti-doping advocate, someone who admits they doped in the past but now makes loud efforts against it,
- rather than to hire people who might well have skeletons in their cupboards, albeit unproven and perhaps just suspicions/suppositions, but about whom the dirty truth could well be exposed : or even worse could still be still actually unrepentant dopers...
Not employing previously convicted dopers who've served their time but are not repentant, like Contador or Vino, is one thing, but I'd see someone like Millar, as a born-again anti-doping campaigner, as an asset to the team's image.
Yeah, but Millar was the only one out on the open i.e. sanctioned
(not excusing DB here, just offering the rationale)0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:interesting interview with Froome here
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome- ... -de-france
Like in the Vuelta...Has a cleaner peloton therefore been the major shift that has allowed Froome to move from grand tour obscurity into the bracket of overall contenders?
“I wouldn't say that it’s the factor but it’s definitely a factor. If all of that was still going on now there’s no way I could be able to keep up with guys changing their blood every few days and using EPO. I just wouldn't be in the picture any more. I don't think I or Brad would be. It would be a different speed as the French call it. I wouldn't be able to perform the way I am now if doping was prevalent.”0 -
I posted a link a while back with an interview Brailsford gave to the Guardian where he openly admitted it was possible they'd sign back room staff with a doping past in certain circumstances. Think it was last year it was published - can't remember the link now but it should be easy enough to google again.
I'm not defending the Sky policy but hiring Yates etc was in line with what he was saying at the time - OK you could argue that Yates and others had a more recent involvement with dodgy teams than Brailsford was saying might be OK - but he certainly hasn't talked a consistent no dopers line from day 1 all the way through - at least not as far as the non-riding staff go.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
To be fair, he had had a tough summer so perhaps he was just fatigued rather than Clenbutador and Valverde being dosed up.andy_wrx wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:interesting interview with Froome here
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome- ... -de-france
Like in the Vuelta...Has a cleaner peloton therefore been the major shift that has allowed Froome to move from grand tour obscurity into the bracket of overall contenders?
“I wouldn't say that it’s the factor but it’s definitely a factor. If all of that was still going on now there’s no way I could be able to keep up with guys changing their blood every few days and using EPO. I just wouldn't be in the picture any more. I don't think I or Brad would be. It would be a different speed as the French call it. I wouldn't be able to perform the way I am now if doping was prevalent.”0 -
nathancom wrote:
To be fair, he had had a tough summer so perhaps he was just fatigued rather than Clenbutador and Valverde being dosed up.andy_wrx wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:interesting interview with Froome here
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome- ... -de-france
Like in the Vuelta...Has a cleaner peloton therefore been the major shift that has allowed Froome to move from grand tour obscurity into the bracket of overall contenders?
“I wouldn't say that it’s the factor but it’s definitely a factor. If all of that was still going on now there’s no way I could be able to keep up with guys changing their blood every few days and using EPO. I just wouldn't be in the picture any more. I don't think I or Brad would be. It would be a different speed as the French call it. I wouldn't be able to perform the way I am now if doping was prevalent.”
But on the other hand... it was the Vuelta0 -
Ignoring employment law if Brailsford/Sky fire Yates if he signs the declaration based on the potential libel broadcast here and on other blogs he could take them to the cleaners.
They could just pay him what's left of his contract and show him the door. I doubt he'd be able to get more than that by taking them to court. Probably worth it from a damage limitation point of view.0 -
andy_wrx wrote:iainf72 wrote:
Interesting one.
DB says he struggled hard with the decision of whether to hire Millar, but then goes ahead and hires Leinders, Yates, Rogers, De Jongh, etc
To me, if you are to run a team which is to be preceived as whiter-than-white, then
- surely it would be better to hire an outspoken anti-doping advocate, someone who admits they doped in the past but now makes loud efforts against it,
- rather than to hire people who might well have skeletons in their cupboards, albeit unproven and perhaps just suspicions/suppositions, but about whom the dirty truth could well be exposed : or even worse could still be still actually unrepentant dopers...
Not employing previously convicted dopers who've served their time but are not repentant, like Contador or Vino, is one thing, but I'd see someone like Millar, as a born-again anti-doping campaigner, as an asset to the team's image.
Yes, I can see where you are coming from but you could argue that this would send out the wrong message to young riders. The message being that its ok to dope. If you get caught at least it got you into the pro ranks and as long as you admit it, after being caught, of course, and say you are now clean and against any drug use, the biggest team in pro cycling might still sign you.
No, I think you have to draw the line somewhere.0 -
Matt Slater @mattslaterbbc
DB: People will b given opportunity, if they represent a risk 2 team, 2 talk about it 2 see if we can reconcile that & support them
Slight change of theme from Brailsford....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:Matt Slater @mattslaterbbc
DB: People will b given opportunity, if they represent a risk 2 team, 2 talk about it 2 see if we can reconcile that & support them
Slight change of theme from Brailsford....
oohhh...DB's clearly been on here reading our posts...0 -
Well he said from the start the team would support them, even monetarily, if they come clean.0
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I stil want to know if they'll shop them to the ADA.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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Sounds like people will definitely be leaving Sky due to this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20072758
I find Brailsford's words interesting though:
Not clear whether that means there's a chance that some people will escape the cut or Sky just want to make sure they don't bear a grudge once they're kicked out!People will be given an opportunity - if they represent a risk to the team going forward - to talk about it, to see if we can reconcile that and support people. It's actually been a very constructive process.0 -
thegibdog wrote:Sounds like people will definitely be leaving Sky due to this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20072758
I find Brailsford's words interesting though:
Not clear whether that means there's a chance that some people will escape the cut or Sky just want to make sure they don't bear a grudge once they're kicked out!People will be given an opportunity - if they represent a risk to the team going forward - to talk about it, to see if we can reconcile that and support people. It's actually been a very constructive process.
Just saw Froome on the News at Ten (!) saying that people were going to leave the team. Was quite funny actually - he looked like a rabbit in the headlights, in the middle of a media scrum and was just too open (for the Sky media managers' liking I'm sure). I say too open, but it was actually quite refreshing. I'd have thought the media team would have planned it differently, but this probably works out quite well - effectively leaks part of the story to take the sting out of the eventual announcement.0 -
iainf72 wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/dav ... r-team-sky
Read that?
If Brailsford is going to be transparent, anyone going now needs to be explained. He's made this rod for his back, not me.
Iain,
I agree with you. Just saying that DB might have preferred to let dust settle in post season, then if faced with say a Yates sworn innocence just not renew contract for 2013.
Looks like events are moving too fast for a 'managed PR strategy' to work though :roll:0 -
Bike riders (like Froome) often say what's on their mind which is why it is one of the best sports for rider interviews. Admittedly some don't, but some do which is a vast improvement on say football. See also the Bradley Wiggins "Father Christmas" quote. He also managed to discuss Jimmy Saville as well - great interview.http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
Bobby Julich gone.
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290, ... 69,00.html
That hurts them quite a bit.
I wonder if he'll remain as coach to some of the riders he has helped. Nordhaug and Froome in particular.0 -
Turfle wrote:Bobby Julich gone.
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290, ... 69,00.html
That hurts them quite a bit.
I wonder if he'll remain as coach to some of the riders he has helped. Nordhaug and Froome in particular.
bugger, sod it. inevitable, given their stance, and he is supposedly 'Rider 4' but...
Nordhaug's gone off to Rabo, but Julich was coaching Froome, Porte, Hayman, for certain - and he played a big part in helping to bring on Dombrowski and Boswell for next season.
bugger, bugger, bugger
But, interesting point, Turfle. Wonder what the deal is if riders 'choose' to use him as a personal coach, rather than as a Sky-contracted one...0 -
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Don't mind admitting, this is starting to make me feel sick0
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Turfle wrote:Bobby Julich gone.
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290, ... 69,00.html
That hurts them quite a bit.
I wonder if he'll remain as coach to some of the riders he has helped. Nordhaug and Froome in particular.
That would leave Sky wide open to more criticism. What's the point of sacking someone and then continuing to use their services in a less transparent position?
But then I think sacking him is ridiculous in the first place.0 -
Wonder if Yates has started writing his CV yet.0
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just read his statement
I seriously feel like shaking Brailsford by the neck
tell you what, it explains why according to Hamilton, Armstrong couldn't stand Julich...if he refused to dope post-98, Armstrong would have hated that
Bobby J's statement also puts most of the others' statements into the shade. No 'I was made to do this'.0 -
As usual on this matter I'm in two minds.
Sucks for Julich that he lost his job, but I'm not sure the idea that only certain dopers should face consequences is the right one. What would be a fair punishment for Julich, if not losing his job?
Garmin have now said they want zero tolerance, just not yet; so why the wait? Doping was understandable back then, but entirely unacceptable in the future? Hypocrisy couched in the friendly face of understanding.0 -
Seems peverse that if he's telling the truth he's obliged to quit his job 14 years after he last cheated at sport."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0
