Team Sky- position on doping

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Well people were saying that the zero tolerance approach would mean people would hide their past. I guess this shows otherwise (or more likely that they already knew and are having to finally ditch those in question under pressure from the sponsor). No new contract for Rogers, Yates to fall on his sword and hopefully that will be any skeletons removed from the closet but doubtless people will then focus on others with the most tenuous links to doping.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Turfle, I'm a bit conflicted too. Its just this self-enforced purge, an extended night of the long knives, dating back to what riders did 14 years ago (in Julich's case). I just differentiate a s$%t like Riis, Rhis and Och at BMC with their histories of the teams they managed, and all that shower, from Bobby J and David Miller and their ilk.
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Yup does seem a little disproportionate. The guy seems one of the goodun s and would have had much to contribute... But zero tolerance is zero tolerance I suppose
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    edited October 2012
    But how do we decide who are the good-guy dopers and who are the bad-guy dopers? If you read the other forum, they'd want Millar to be the first guy out of the sport.

    Julich will be fine. Sky will be fine. And we have one more confession to add to the pile.

    The question that needs asking, would Julich have confessed if Sky didn't have this policy? If he was at any other team would Julich still be in the closet?
  • evil_breakfast
    evil_breakfast Posts: 465
    Tonight @ 19.45

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nvv55
    You're the light wiping out my batteries; You're the cream in my airport coffee's.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Turfle wrote:
    But how do we decide who are the good-guy dopers and who are the bad-guy dopers? If you read the other forum, they'd want Millar to be the first guy out of the sport.

    Julich will be fine. Sky will be fine. And we have one more confession to add to the pile.

    The question that needs asking, would Julich have confessed if it Sky didn't have this policy? If he was at any other team would Julich still be in the closet?


    If you read the other forum, by the time they'd be through there'd be no one left to actually ride, coach, manage, advise on a saddle sore, work as a mechanic, drive the team bus, or act as swanny.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    I really should stop reading over there!
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Turfle wrote:
    I really should stop reading over there!


    You should. It does more damage to the brain than a Boonen night out
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,197
    Aren't Sky damned if they do, damed if they don't? They can't win.
    So, all other ex dopers on all the other teams are going to 'fess up'....?? Yeah, sure.....and I'm winning the Lottery on Saturday....
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Aren't Sky damned if they do, damed if they don't? They can't win.
    So, all other ex dopers on all the other teams are going to 'fess up'....?? Yeah, sure.....and I'm winning the Lottery on Saturday....


    Maybe that's a big part of my frustration. 90% of the other ProTour teams will do sweet FA
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    ...
  • nweststeyn
    nweststeyn Posts: 1,574
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Aren't Sky damned if they do, damed if they don't? They can't win.
    So, all other ex dopers on all the other teams are going to 'fess up'....?? Yeah, sure.....and I'm winning the Lottery on Saturday....


    Maybe that's a big part of my frustration. 90% of the other ProTour teams will do sweet FA

    So we'll have Sky and 0.8 of a team...? :D
  • bipedal
    bipedal Posts: 466
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    just read his statement

    I seriously feel like shaking Brailsford by the neck

    tell you what, it explains why according to Hamilton, Armstrong couldn't stand Julich...if he refused to dope post-98, Armstrong would have hated that

    Bobby J's statement also puts most of the others' statements into the shade. No 'I was made to do this'.

    I totally agree - it's a heartfelt statement from an intelligent chap making Sky look pretty small-minded; if they have the budget I can see Garmin snapping up Bobby's services

    What he says about CSC is interesting, especially his change of attitude post-Puerto
  • nweststeyn
    nweststeyn Posts: 1,574
    Lichtblick wrote:
    ...

    ...?
  • Nick Fitt
    Nick Fitt Posts: 381
    bipedal wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    just read his statement

    I seriously feel like shaking Brailsford by the neck

    tell you what, it explains why according to Hamilton, Armstrong couldn't stand Julich...if he refused to dope post-98, Armstrong would have hated that

    Bobby J's statement also puts most of the others' statements into the shade. No 'I was made to do this'.

    I totally agree - it's a heartfelt statement from an intelligent chap making Sky look pretty small-minded; if they have the budget I can see Garmin snapping up Bobby's services

    What he says about CSC is interesting, especially his change of attitude post-Puerto

    So what of Yates then, surely he has to go?
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    nweststeyn wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Aren't Sky damned if they do, damed if they don't? They can't win.
    So, all other ex dopers on all the other teams are going to 'fess up'....?? Yeah, sure.....and I'm winning the Lottery on Saturday....


    Maybe that's a big part of my frustration. 90% of the other ProTour teams will do sweet FA

    So we'll have Sky and 0.8 of a team...? :D


    The teams that have the most suspicion around them appear to be:
    - Katusha
    - Astana
    - Movistar
    - The Carrots
    - Lampre
    - Saxo

    No bloody change will be effected at any of those teams
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Do you mean that one of our gallant, squeaky clean, pat babies, be nice to pensioner type superheroes who have never, ever, ever done anything wrong in their whole lives honest guv and kick Johnny Foreigner into touch... Have actually touched someone who doped a bit fourteen years ago.

    Well I guess that makes wiggo and froomey guilty as hell and they have surely got to go. Decontamination suits are on order at team sky I believe ...
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Do you mean that one of our gallant, squeaky clean, pat babies, be nice to pensioner type superheroes who have never, ever, ever done anything wrong in their whole lives honest guv and kick Johnny Foreigner into touch... Have actually touched someone who doped a bit fourteen years ago.

    Well I guess that makes wiggo and froomey guilty as hell and they have surely got to go. Decontamination suits are on order at team sky I believe ...


    New bespoke line from Rapha, I hear :roll:
  • Gazzetta67
    Gazzetta67 Posts: 1,890
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Do you mean that one of our gallant, squeaky clean, pat babies, be nice to pensioner type superheroes who have never, ever, ever done anything wrong in their whole lives honest guv and kick Johnny Foreigner into touch... Have actually touched someone who doped a bit fourteen years ago.

    Well I guess that makes wiggo and froomey guilty as hell and they have surely got to go. Decontamination suits are on order at team sky I believe ...

    It's all to do with "Marginal Gains" 8)
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    nweststeyn wrote:
    Lichtblick wrote:
    ...

    ...?

    I replied...and then realised that this was being discussed in another thread, so I deleted my reply.

    Where's Rick? He would have merged, commented, something... :?:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Reading his confession convinces me that Sky's stance is not the correct or best way of operating and there should be some discretion allowed. Garmin is a fabulous team and a good example of being a clean but open team. Bobby's involvement was small and understandable and his conduct post that is a good example.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    Glad to see they're following through with it.

    This has all come from on high hasn't it? With the news being full of doping stories Sky want to send out a strong message that they have nothing to do with it. They could hardly sit back and wait until members of their team were named by others, it would have been terrible publicity for a self-proclaimed clean team. They have to get it all out in the open and, once people have confessed, the media (& plenty of people on here!) would have a field day if they remained within the team.
    https://gibworth.mypixieset.com
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    Julich will find a new gig before long (Saxo?).

    As it seems that the main dude for shaping the Sky coaching ethos doesn't even come from a cycling background, I wonder how much they'll miss BJ? Also, he's probably already passed on most of what he knows with regard to specific TT coaching to certain riders (esp. Froome and Porte, FWIR) in the 2 years he's been there. He'll be snapped up by a team wanting to hear of any juicy Sky secrets.
  • forward_loop
    forward_loop Posts: 314
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Reading his confession convinces me that Sky's stance is not the correct or best way of operating and there should be some discretion allowed. Garmin is a fabulous team and a good example of being a clean but open team. Bobby's involvement was small and understandable and his conduct post that is a good example.

    I agree. It riles me that Brailsford came up with this zero tolerance document to sign or be damned - after a "single evening of thought". Also his seeming astonishment at the scale of the problem over the last couple of weeks. I mean iirc he was one of the first to whom David Millar spilled the beans wasn't he ? - hes has had plenty of time to consider,formulate and communicate a proper approach to the issue.
    skygun-1024x908.jpg
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Garmin is a fabulous team and a good example of being a clean but open team.

    Open? How are they open? They knowingly employed riders with "history" but kept it in house until it was forced out (by Landis).

    I don't ever see Saxo getting any praise yet they are scarcely different from Garmin; both headed by self-confessed dopers, will employ riders who have served bans, only Garmin have more riders currently serving bans!

    It's a funny old world where the cycling Twitter-verse is awash with people crowing how Sky's policy will enforce Omerta, when it has just led to one of their staff putting his history out into the open (at personal cost to himself).
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    bipedal wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    just read his statement

    I seriously feel like shaking Brailsford by the neck

    tell you what, it explains why according to Hamilton, Armstrong couldn't stand Julich...if he refused to dope post-98, Armstrong would have hated that

    Bobby J's statement also puts most of the others' statements into the shade. No 'I was made to do this'.

    I totally agree - it's a heartfelt statement from an intelligent chap making Sky look pretty small-minded; if they have the budget I can see Garmin snapping up Bobby's services

    What he says about CSC is interesting, especially his change of attitude post-Puerto

    So what of Yates then, surely he has to go?

    I thought he said he didnt see anything?
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    I enjoyed (if that is the best word to use)Julich's confession. It appeared full and frank and for that I wish him all the luck in the world in finding a new a new position somewhere. Some others could learn a lot from that openness
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Turfle wrote:

    The question that needs asking, would Julich have confessed if Sky didn't have this policy? If he was at any other team would Julich still be in the closet?

    I think the question is actually : Would Sky have had this policy if they had got away with Barry being on the team? I'd be pretty confident they knew he doped, so they hedged their bets it wouldn't come out. And lost.

    And now everyone pays.

    Did Sky not know Bobby came 3rd in a Tour. In 1998. Or that some of their management rode for TVM. In 1998. None of this stuff is a secret yet it's suddenly a problem.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Well I was one of those who thought this policy would promote omerta. I was clearly wrong in the case of Jullich. Although I wonder how much of his confession was inevitable as it was pretty well known he was Rider 4 and how did Sky not at least have some suspicions about Jullich?

    How many of the people we don't immediately suspect will come forward with a policy like this? And while it is a great policy for Sky, what about the other teams? I know this isn't Sky's immediate problem, but it seems a bit like throwing deck chairs off the ship while it is still sinking (apologies for the slightly altered metaphor).

    I'm just sad. :(
    Correlation is not causation.
  • fish156
    fish156 Posts: 496
    David Brailsford interview on Radio 5 right now.

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