Team Sky- position on doping

dortmunder

Team Sky have issued a statement reaffirming their anti-doping policy.

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290, ... 93,00.html

Includes riders and management

bobhitch

Does this mean Sean will be looking for a new job ?

kangarouge

Sounds unambiguous to me. Now all that is needed is for all the other teams to follow suit.

RichN95.

They've finally gone the "full retard" *.

I support Sky, but if they are this dumb, then the ***k 'em. They must know that Julich is Rider 4. Are they really going to hold Yates accountable if he took some pills back in the 80s? Isn't a rider who doped but then changed his ways voluntarily worthy of forgiveness?

This is Brailsford making the announcement - the other teams must be laughing themselves silly:




* A reference to Tropic Thunder

graeme_s-2

Wasn't Mick Rogers named in some of the depositions as being present at dodgy Tenerife training camps run by Ferrari back in the day? I'm fairly willing to believe that he's riding clean now, but he'd still fall fund of their policy if he was dabbling then. Having already been caught out with Michael Barry you'd think they'd start to see sense that Garmin's policy is much safer and more constructive.

r0bh

Graeme_S wrote:

Garmin's policy is much safer and more constructive.

Safer for Garmin? Yes. More constructive for cycling? No. Garmin's policy amounts to "OK so you doped in the past, that's fine and we'll all keep quiet about it until you're implicated by someone else, then we'll support you". Not sure how that moves cycling forwards. And for every Thomas Dekker they give a second chance to there's a Dan Lloyd without a contract, or a neo-pro not even getting a first chance.

jibberjim

Their PR team seems really dumb - there are a few very obvious people (Yates, Julich, Rogers) who'll have to leave if the position is genuine, regardless of the others, the Sky announcement should've included their announcements that they're leaving, they're clean now, yada yada yada, as you get positive news out with the negative.

Instead they announce this - everyone points to all the dopers, and how it's been obvious for ages... how did Sky not know? So Sky just look dumb - and then when they do get rid of the guys who doped there's more negative press coverage.

Mind you that's been the case all along really, and they don't need the 100% historically clean team anyway - it's an unrealistic target to have DS's/coaches with experience of how to race who aren't doped.

iainf72

They've achieved a great double.

They're dumb in the class room. And dumb on the bus.

rebs

Think Sky are more long term in there objectives. Garmins approach will only work so long. Eventually a line needs to be drawn.

Turfle

As I said before, I don't like the zero tolerance policy.

Here's the problem, Yates, Rogers, Leeinders, Julich.

Did they dope/help doping/etc? Maybe. Probably.

At the time of their hiring was there enough evidence to deny them employment? Not to me. I don't want to deny someone employment based on rumour or suggestion. Is there now? Rogers + Leeinders probably. Possibly Julich too.

Yates? Hasn't been named in anything anywhere as far as I know. So what do they do with him?

The approach just isn't workable.

edit: Yates of course has that positive test too. But say he didn't, would you hire him?

Mccaria

Am I missing something ? How does Yates sign this given his failed doping test in 89. Looking at what he has to sign up to on the Sky website "no past or present involvement in doping", he cannot sign the document. Although the failed test was clearly known at the time he was hired ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Yates

Turfle

Mccaria wrote:

Am I missing something ? How does Yates sign this given his failed doping test in 89. Looking at what he has to sign up to "no past or present involvement in doping" on the Sky website, he cannot sign the document, although the failed test was clearly known at the time he was hired ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Yates

There seems to be a lot of confusion over his failed test. Some reports have his A sample failing, but not his B sample. Others have it that he wasn't sanctioned for other reasons.

jibberjim

Mccaria wrote:

Am I missing something ? How does Yates sign this given his failed doping test in 89. Looking at what he has to sign up to on the Sky website "no past or present involvement in doping", he cannot sign the document. Although the failed test was clearly known at the time he was hired ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Yates

c'mon be fair, it's been clear for awhile that Sky's due dilligence doesn't include a google search - expecting them to read Wikipedia is way too much!

Mccaria

Thanks Turfle. So zero tolerance will only be a failed B sample........ Sounds convincing.

Richmond Racer

Turfle wrote:

Mccaria wrote:

Am I missing something ? How does Yates sign this given his failed doping test in 89. Looking at what he has to sign up to "no past or present involvement in doping" on the Sky website, he cannot sign the document, although the failed test was clearly known at the time he was hired ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Yates

There seems to be a lot of confusion over his failed test. Some reports have his A sample failing, but not his B sample. Others have it that he wasn't sanctioned for other reasons.

Yeah, Wiki is kind of misleading. Whatever the reason, he doesnt have a sanction against him, not even one of Kim Anderson's 10 min time penalties. Which does explain why he passed the test for Sky back in 09 - no sanction of any sort in his history, and at the time when his A sample came up +, BCF were fully supporting him. Given this, if Yatesy has to walk, it will surely be connected with his DS'ing for Lancey Boy, rather than this event back in his own riding career.

Jez mon

rebs wrote:

Think Sky are more long term in there objectives. Garmins approach will only work so long. Eventually a line needs to be drawn.

Meh, IMO, David Millar and Vaughters should be allowed to stay in cycling for as long as they want.

Sky's approach is staggeringly naive at best, at worst it's plain insulting to the fans. Garmin have done far more, IMO, to try and convince fans.

Turfle

Mccaria wrote:

Thanks Turfle. So zero tolerance will only be a failed B sample........ Sounds convincing.

That is why I say the policy isn't workable.

Officially, Yates doesn't have a failed test on his record, and isn't named by anyone in the USADA files. In reality he likely did something or other in the 80s, and may or may not have been involved at Discovery.

I don't know what they do with that.

mroli

Over the coming weeks, we will talk individually with each team member and ask everyone, at every level of the team, to sign up to a clear written policy, confirming that they have no past or present involvement in doping.

Well, I alone (it seems) think that this is a principled stand. How many other teams are doing this?

dougzz

Jez mon wrote:

rebs wrote:

Think Sky are more long term in there objectives. Garmins approach will only work so long. Eventually a line needs to be drawn.

Meh, IMO, David Millar and Vaughters should be allowed to stay in cycling for as long as they want.
Sky's approach is staggeringly naive at best, at worst it's plain insulting to the fans. Garmin have done far more, IMO, to try and convince fans.

Garmin and Sky both suck. Sky talk the talk until they need to employ someone and the best fit has previous, they then seem to bury head in sand. Garmin have been pathetic in this, yeah we're clean, yeah we do the right thing, well once we're bang to rights and have no other options we do. I'm pretty sure the Great and Good Vaughters used the phrase 'Truth and Reconciliation' in a tweet recently, Maybe he doesn't understand that's where you just tell the truth, not wait years and years, and then tell the truth (or a version of it) only when you'd have greater legal problems by continuing the lie. Lance was a sh*t of the highest order, but most of these others should not be getting a nice easy press the way they are.

Richmond Racer

I am so farking mad about this. Brailsford realised by spring 2010 that it was virtually impossible to have a rider over 30, or a DS, who wasnt tainted in some way. And still he and Sky plough on with this approach.
:evil: :evil:

As Rich said, other teams must be laughing their arses off. They will do one of the following:

- feck all (the vast majority)
- fire to suit their own purposes unrelated to anti-doping (see OPQS re Leipheimer)
- tout themselves as the 'guiding light through all this darkness' (Holy Dave self-proclaimed just now on his Twitter feed) - see Garmin. Which only serves to make me hate them and wish them nothing but failure next season. :roll: :evil:

And I will put good money down that Matt White will be back with OGE soon.

Turfle

Richmond Racer wrote:

I am so farking mad about this. Brailsford realised by spring 2010 that it was virtually impossible to have a rider over 30, or a DS, who wasnt tainted in some way. And still he and Sky plough on with this approach.
:evil: :evil:

As Rich said, other teams must be laughing their arses off. They will do one of the following:

- feck all (the vast majority)
- fire to suit their own purposes unrelated to anti-doping (see OPQS re Leipheimer)
- tout themselves as the 'guiding light through all this darkness' (Holy Dave self-proclaimed just now on his Twitter feed) - see Garmin. Which only serves to make me hate them and wish them nothing but failure next season. :roll: :evil:

And I will put good money down that Matt White will be back with OGE soon.

I get the impression that for the Sky money men, it's either this approach or no team at all.

Brailsford definitely wanted Millar on board.

Richmond Racer

Turfle wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

I am so farking mad about this. Brailsford realised by spring 2010 that it was virtually impossible to have a rider over 30, or a DS, who wasnt tainted in some way. And still he and Sky plough on with this approach.
:evil: :evil:

As Rich said, other teams must be laughing their arses off. They will do one of the following:

- feck all (the vast majority)
- fire to suit their own purposes unrelated to anti-doping (see OPQS re Leipheimer)
- tout themselves as the 'guiding light through all this darkness' (Holy Dave self-proclaimed just now on his Twitter feed) - see Garmin. Which only serves to make me hate them and wish them nothing but failure next season. :roll: :evil:

And I will put good money down that Matt White will be back with OGE soon.

I get the impression that for the Sky money men, it's either this approach or no team at all.

Brailsford definitely wanted Millar on board.

I know Turfle, I've argued the very same thing on this forum in the last few days. And yeah it very well may be the Sky board making it their condition. Its just seems ludicrous when you know just how little the other 17 ProTour teams are going to do (as per my previous post, I reckon Matt White will be back in situ at OGE).

nic_77

Turfle wrote:

Officially, Yates doesn't have a failed test on his record, and isn't named by anyone in the USADA files.

There's a photo of him in the evidence, wearing his Sky kit and cuddling Motoman.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/FA ... +photo.pdf

If that doesn't implicate him, what does?

cougie

A photo of Yates with someone who hasn't been proven to have done anything ? It's hardly damning. Yates can easily say he's had his pic taken with 1000s of people - which he has. Is he implicated in any misdeeds all these people might have done ?

LeicesterLad

Anybody who thinks Yates, who was with Armstrong, US Postal, Discovery etc through that era, didn't 'see or hear' anything as he proclaims is a complete idiot. He shouldn't be at Sky, why does he have so many bleedin apologists on here? The blokes dirty as feck. Even Rich, who is usually pretty staunch anti-doping (when it suits him) is playing the 'can't hold a few little pills against him' card. I mean for f*cks sake, look at the man, he got busted for pills, he hung out with the biggest bunch of dirty cheats in cycling - doesn't really matter if it was 'just pills', some would argue 'it was just coritcoids for sadle sores'. People need to get real. I don't think Brailsford can keep up the whole no dirt rider no dirty staff sharade, but I also don't think it wouldnt be right to keep people like Yates and Rogers on the books when there is so much doubt about them and they continue to pretend they know nothing. Dave B can't really win can he?

Rodrego Hernandez

Only the very naive believe Yates to be clean.

What would happen if it was shown DB knew of things previously but kept quiet?

Wrong man for the job. Hates losing, win at all costs?

LangerDan

"Over the coming weeks, we will talk individually with each team member and ask everyone, at every level of the team, to sign up to a clear written policy, confirming that they have no past or present involvement in doping."

For a team like Sky, you'd have thought that they would have had something as basic as this policy in place from the get-go.

I suspect it will work as well as when DB supposedly asked Barry about his past following the Landis allegations.



PS - Is Brailsford's invitation for us internet "cnuts & wankers" to go to that anti-doping love-in in Manchester still open or has it been quietly withdrawn.

blazing_saddles

Sky's very own variation on the affidavit, the naffidavit.
Julich certainly and Yates probably are living on borrowed time.
They sign, they keep their jobs, they don't, they lose them.
This piece of paper won't serve to expedite matters.
It will serve to wave under the media's noses, come their
eventual exposé.

davidof

My feeling is that Sky should hire someone outside the DB, Team Psychologist loop to investigate the Sky Four.

ddraver

Do you think it's a coincidence that when I opened that link the top 2 songs on their Spotify Playlist were I Miss You by Blink and What Became of the Likely Lads by the Libertines?

hmmm...

:P

Nick Fitt

Aside from these comments which i agree with. I am also mildly amused and surprised they signed Dombrowski and Boswell. However talented they may be and however great the 'fit', the timing is not great, in fact its daft. The French media and track team are largely convinced Team Sky GB had to be doping at the Olympics, they are sceptical of the TdF/Sky Team, & now they can laugh at this 'sponsor driven Pr stunt' and Sky of all the riders in the world sign 2 riders from a team with Livestrong in the name, smack bang in the middle of the LA shit.

I think its crazy