When to down a gel?

siamon

Thanks for the tip on the cookbook. Will give it a look.

Southgate

Trev The Rev wrote:

I was not advocating trying to eat a steak whilst riding. Yes liquids are digested quicker. Personally I prefer honey to a gel. You can buy honey in little easy to use containers or make up your own little packets. You can mix honey with water. There are many foods which require minimal chewing anyway.

I only read Obree's book 2 days ago. I have been banging on about how gels and sports drinks are a big con for many years. With minimal thought and a little effort you can do far better making things yourself.

If I understand you correctly, you have just conceded the argument. Whether you prefer to make your own gels rather than buy the commercially produced versions is besides the point. You must think gels are a useful part of your riding nutrition, otherwise you wouldn't make your own and consume 'em, right?

Trev The Rev

If you are doing an event of over 2 hours and you find it difficult to consume real food, ( I use bananas & water and I have on occasion used honey when I had no bananas), then I see no reason why you should not use commercial gels or energy drinks but I would argue you can prepare better drinks or easily digestible small amounts of food yourself.

But there are no doubt people who prefer commercial gels and drinks and I respect their decision to use them.

However, it is my opinion that training on gels & energy drinks leads to a tendency to become over reliant on a constant supply of sugar and or fructose and an inability to cope without it.. I understand there is some research being done which is looking at this.

dw300

Wow 4 pages?!

Cliffs?

Rulebritania

Finally after four pages of mainly two arguing lol, some real answers and guidance now though for that I thank you.

poynedexter

diluted juice
bread and jam
raisins

these see me thru most outings. tho on a longer run we always stop for cof, scones, etc.

gels are only for emergencies only and i dont need to eat during races. cycling does not have to be complicated.

Herbsman

I just ordered 60 gels

jgsi

Trev The Rev wrote:

If you are doing an event of over 2 hours and you find it difficult to consume real food, ( I use bananas & water and I have on occasion used honey when I had no bananas), then I see no reason why you should not use commercial gels or energy drinks but I would argue you can prepare better drinks or easily digestible small amounts of food yourself.

But there are no doubt people who prefer commercial gels and drinks and I respect their decision to use them.

However, it is my opinion that training on gels & energy drinks leads to a tendency to become over reliant on a constant supply of sugar and or fructose and an inability to cope without it.. I understand there is some research being done which is looking at this.

What, in a squeezy bottle?

rumour mongering webstyle

SBezza

I can get through a hard 5-6 hour training ride on a couple of breakfast type bars and water without bonking, that is due to the diet I eat. Now I wouldn't expect a new cyclists to be able to do this, it takes a few years to get fit enough to do it, but for training there is absolutely no need for gels. If people are happy spending out £1.20 a time for something with so little calories in it so be it, but they are not magic potions and a can of coke would give you more energy.

If you eat normal food, you don't need to take a full kitchen cupboards worth of food with you, then you should never bonk, you might get tired, that is normal but to completely run out of glycogen is unlikely. If you take energy drink as well, well then you are even more unlikely to need a gel.

As has been previously mentioned anything under 2 hours, if you eat a decent diet, no food is needed at all to be honest, you have more than enough stored energy within your body. You are unlikely to be burning 100% glycogen for any prolonged period whilst training.

I would discount alot of studies done by Energy Product Providers, they are very unlikely to be wholly unbiased, and the marketing departments are there to sell the products in any legal way possible, so will spout all manner of misleading information in the hope people buy the products. IME there has been no noticeable difference (apart from my bank balance) of restricting these things to racing where it is impossible to eat solid food.

StillGoing

So in other words your view is anyone who can't do what you do is not as fit as you or has a poor diet? Gels etc have their use no matter what level you are at if you expend the energy. It simply comes down to a choice for those willing to pay for them or opt to load their pockets with normal food (that i understand is supposed to be slower releasing/absorbing) and cans of carbonated sugar drinks. If a gel helps someone over that last hill on a long ride, what does it matter if it's taken them longer than you? Nobody is suggesting they are magic beans or anything that will suddenly give you the performance of Contador (minus the extras) but when you're starting to flag, they can give a short bit of respite to fend off tiring. If you're suggesting that the fitter you get the less you need supplements, then I can see that, but it also means less fit riders will have greater need of supplements on long rides if they don't wish to carry normal food. With three pockets stuffed with spare tubes, Co2 pump and spare canister, patches, phone, arm & leg warmers and rain cape, a gel or protein bar is easier to get in the gaps than a wrap and a can of soft drink. They're lighter too.

phreak

Just do the maths. An energy gel often has as little as 90 calories in it. Not really much. For a short ride you'll be fine with a good breakfast/meal before you head out. If you assume you'll burn perhaps 500 calories per hour, work things back from there.

For me gels have a use when you can't chew things. So if you're climbing for an hour you need energy but chewing is tough. Gels and drinks are the way to go, but it's rare to have anything like that in Britain, so it's just a bit more enjoyable to eat real food. I seem to remember the Sky chefs saying this was a big reason for using real food rather than gels etc. all the time, because three weeks of that would drive riders mad.

As has been said they don't take up much space so by all means have one as an emergency supply, but I suspect (this is opinion rather than fact - I don't have any peer reviewed research to support it) that many of our troubles on the road are simply due to lack of fitness rather than a lack of energy.

slowsider

Nobody's mentioned Jelly Babies. Food of the gods. I did a double blind test using them (I closed both eyes at the same time) and noticed a real improvement. No gel wrapper to deal with either. Once you get over the cannibalism factor they're great.
I get packs when they are on BOGOF offer at my local Tesco.

Herbsman

I would like to add to my previous answer, slurp as many gels as you like, JUST TAKE THE F**KING PACKETS HOME AND PUT THEM IN THE BIN! :evil:

StillGoing

Herbsman wrote:

I would like to add to my previous answer, slurp as many gels as you like, JUST TAKE THE F**KING PACKETS HOME AND PUT THEM IN THE BIN! :evil:

And that, is the downfall of them. A sticky packet stuck up your bib short leg doesn't get any nicer the longer the ride goes on.

SBezza

philthy3 wrote:

So in other words your view is anyone who can't do what you do is not as fit as you or has a poor diet? Gels etc have their use no matter what level you are at if you expend the energy. It simply comes down to a choice for those willing to pay for them or opt to load their pockets with normal food (that i understand is supposed to be slower releasing/absorbing) and cans of carbonated sugar drinks. If a gel helps someone over that last hill on a long ride, what does it matter if it's taken them longer than you? Nobody is suggesting they are magic beans or anything that will suddenly give you the performance of Contador (minus the extras) but when you're starting to flag, they can give a short bit of respite to fend off tiring. If you're suggesting that the fitter you get the less you need supplements, then I can see that, but it also means less fit riders will have greater need of supplements on long rides if they don't wish to carry normal food. With three pockets stuffed with spare tubes, Co2 pump and spare canister, patches, phone, arm & leg warmers and rain cape, a gel or protein bar is easier to get in the gaps than a wrap and a can of soft drink. They're lighter too.

Not at all, I am saying it is perfectly possible for the body to do long rides, hard rides etc without eating much food etc. Your body has a limitless supply of energy it is called FAT, if you keep supplementing your rides with high sugar products, it will never learn how to use that energy store efficiently.

I was saying you DON'T need to load your pockets with food, 4 breakfast bars in one pocket is more than you would need on a normal long training ride, say for 4 hours.You want the energy to be slow release in all honesty unless you are in the situation of racing where you are using up stored glycogen at a rapid rate and hence need to supplement with fast digesting sugars.

I don't carry a can of soft drink around with me, but with only 2 bottles I do have to stop off at a shop and get more water. If I am flagging at all, a quick can of coke can help, but even then I only do this on rides longer than 5 hours really.

Thing is people go on about hills, and the last one of a ride. This is normally difficult due to fatigue and not a lack of energy. If you had a powermeter you might find you are not putting out a great deal more power getting up this last hill compared to what you were putting out at the beginning of the ride, but one thing is for sure your legs will probably be alot more tired and hence it feels hard. A gel is not really going to help much here to be honest, plus you would need to take it some 15 to 20 mins away from the hill for it to be digested and processed by the body.

Less inexperienced riders don't really need to carry more food, they just need to keep within there limits and as they do more riding they will naturally become fitter, and then rides will become faster and longer, and then food starts to become a requirement. For someone riding 20-25 miles, there is no need for food or energy products at all unless that person has starved themselves for the previous 2 or 3 days, the body has more than enough glycogen and fat to support the ride even if it took 2 hours.

If you want to use gels then go ahead, but I am saying (and others had said the same) there is no need for gels in all honesty until you get to a stage where eating is just not possible due to the intensity of the ride.

mamba80

+ 1... couldnt agree more.

ShutUpLegs

mamba80 wrote:

+ 1... couldnt agree more.

Ditto

All good advice.

Herbsman

SBezza wrote:

Thing is people go on about hills, and the last one of a ride. This is normally difficult due to fatigue and not a lack of energy... A gel is not really going to help much here to be honest, plus you would need to take it some 15 to 20 mins away from the hill for it to be digested and processed by the body.

This is why I laughed out loud at an energy gel review on Road.cc
Bloke reckoned he took a gel just before the last hill on a ride and it helped him ride up it.

It might be imagination, but the boost from these 'Plus' gels seems to be almost instantaneous as well, such that I can see a big hill half a mile down the road, grab a sachet from my jersey back pocket, neck it, then have the legs to attack like a Schleck when the gradient starts to steepen. Okay, a lot of that increased performance is definitely my imagination but at least part seems thanks to the caffeine-enhanced gel.

Must live in a different reality.

And this

There was no waiting for the gel to 'kick in'; my legs felt the benefit straight away

http://road.cc/content/review/62836-bik ... el-25-pack :roll:

StillGoing

SBezza wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

So in other words your view is anyone who can't do what you do is not as fit as you or has a poor diet? Gels etc have their use no matter what level you are at if you expend the energy. It simply comes down to a choice for those willing to pay for them or opt to load their pockets with normal food (that i understand is supposed to be slower releasing/absorbing) and cans of carbonated sugar drinks. If a gel helps someone over that last hill on a long ride, what does it matter if it's taken them longer than you? Nobody is suggesting they are magic beans or anything that will suddenly give you the performance of Contador (minus the extras) but when you're starting to flag, they can give a short bit of respite to fend off tiring. If you're suggesting that the fitter you get the less you need supplements, then I can see that, but it also means less fit riders will have greater need of supplements on long rides if they don't wish to carry normal food. With three pockets stuffed with spare tubes, Co2 pump and spare canister, patches, phone, arm & leg warmers and rain cape, a gel or protein bar is easier to get in the gaps than a wrap and a can of soft drink. They're lighter too.

Not at all, I am saying it is perfectly possible for the body to do long rides, hard rides etc without eating much food etc. Your body has a limitless supply of energy it is called FAT, if you keep supplementing your rides with high sugar products, it will never learn how to use that energy store efficiently.

I was saying you DON'T need to load your pockets with food, 4 breakfast bars in one pocket is more than you would need on a normal long training ride, say for 4 hours.You want the energy to be slow release in all honesty unless you are in the situation of racing where you are using up stored glycogen at a rapid rate and hence need to supplement with fast digesting sugars.

I don't carry a can of soft drink around with me, but with only 2 bottles I do have to stop off at a shop and get more water. If I am flagging at all, a quick can of coke can help, but even then I only do this on rides longer than 5 hours really.

Thing is people go on about hills, and the last one of a ride. This is normally difficult due to fatigue and not a lack of energy. If you had a powermeter you might find you are not putting out a great deal more power getting up this last hill compared to what you were putting out at the beginning of the ride, but one thing is for sure your legs will probably be alot more tired and hence it feels hard. A gel is not really going to help much here to be honest, plus you would need to take it some 15 to 20 mins away from the hill for it to be digested and processed by the body.

Less inexperienced riders don't really need to carry more food, they just need to keep within there limits and as they do more riding they will naturally become fitter, and then rides will become faster and longer, and then food starts to become a requirement. For someone riding 20-25 miles, there is no need for food or energy products at all unless that person has starved themselves for the previous 2 or 3 days, the body has more than enough glycogen and fat to support the ride even if it took 2 hours.

If you want to use gels then go ahead, but I am saying (and others had said the same) there is no need for gels in all honesty until you get to a stage where eating is just not possible due to the intensity of the ride.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting you should cram your pockets full of them and neck them like sweets. I, probably like you, don't stop on rides and eat and drink as I go other than buying a bottle of water to refill my water bottles as I get near running out. On a 6 or 7 hour ride I will need to eat and my choice is to use gels as masticating real food is sometimes difficult in the middle of an effort. My diet isn't sugar laden and I don't eat for the sake of it. I'm not built like a serious cyclist I.e. probably a stone + underweight as I wouldn't be able to do my job. There's pluses and minus' for both views as I see it.

negativelycra

Op,
Like you, i am a newbie. I tend to stick to cerial bars, but always carry 2 gels just in case. I've use them twice - first time i was naive to the requirements of nutrition, and hadn't eaten correctly before i left (literally porrige bowl down, straight out on the bike). The first 7 miles killed me, i necked the gel, felt lke a new man.
Second time was my first blast up blaze hill (cat 4 or poss 3, i forget) - i was struggling so much. Stopped, ate gel, got back on and finished it.

Why did they help? It could be the caffeine, the placebo effect (admittably likely), it might be that they actually do what they say on the side. However, i'll keep carrying em because when you feel like shite, they seem to help!

Ps - they taste proper grim though, cerial bars are a much better bet!

spin_city

I just thought I'd give my opinion as someone with Type 1 Diabetes. Having this condition means that I can't let my 'blood sugars' go too low as this can cause serious problems. For a non-diabetic it would be similar to a serious case of bonking. To achieve the aim of keeping my blood sugars up I will consume carbohydrates on any ride over, say, an hour (and maybe even on shorter rides).

The speed that carbohydrates are digested, and ready for use, is dependent on their Glycaemic Index (GI). 'Fast acting' carbohydrates are things that could be called sugary and 'slow acting' carbohydrates are things that could be called starchy although there is a bit of inconsistency in regard to the layman's terms we use and the GI figures that nutritionists talk about.

While I'm cycling I continuously consume a drink with approximately 5-7% of sugar in it i.e. 'fast acting' (and the amount of sugar in this sort of drink is called isotonic) and depending on weather/terrain conditions I'll probably drink about 500ml per hour. On top of this I will eat a portion of carbohydrate rich food i.e. 'slow acting' every hour or so.
Examples of the drinks I have are full sugar Ribena (diluted), full sugar Hi-Juice (diluted) and Fruit juice mixed with an equal quantity of water.
Examples of the food I will eat are Malt Loaf, Fruit Cake, Tea Bread, Banana Bread, Flapjacks, Scones, etc. Towards the end of a ride I might even treat myself to some confectionery e.g. Twix, Snickers, etc (Sorry for the advertising.)
For some reason, and I don't know why, I have never resorted to commercially available sports products. Maybe I'm just too mean to pay the prices.

If I'm on an all day ride then I will have a meal at some point when I will also take a reduced amount of insulin.
I also take some emergency rations out with me such as Jelly Babies or Glucose tablets but it is not very often that I need to resort to using these.
The times that I do will be because of some miscalculation of my requirements rather than just running out of energy.

This seems to work for me and, in theory, there shouldn't be any point during a ride (even an extremely long one) that I will run out of available energy.

Maybe the OP can incorporate some of these ideas for keeping his/her energy levels up whilst out riding.

Rulebritania

Again Thanks for your thoughts

I can see there are many trains of thought and I thank you all for your input. Basically I can eat whatever I like its a choice of what do prefer. Regarding my original Q. I could carry one on a ride for a quick response to "flaking" (an army term for bonking). This will have the effect of giving me the boost (maybe in my head somewhat) to push on until the gel kicks in.
Where am I going wrong: :?:
The other day I did 17 miles http://app.strava.com/rides/23686820 in the rain having had a bowl of porridge and a large cup of tea. It took me an age to get into my stride and warm up there seemed to be no energy in my weak legs on teeny weeny enclines for a long time. Once into my stride at about the 8 mile point I had half a banana on the move folded the rest up and put into pocket. But eating half at a time proved to be a messy affair for the pocket. I only carried water (750ml) and consumed just over 2/3s of it during the ride, the rest sprayed the dirt from my cleats where I stopped to check my map and stood in mud.

(which thanks to spin city I will look to add something a juice to it. For longer rides an isotonic. Choccy bars: Snickers (Marathon in old money) I will avoid and replace with maltloaf.

phreak

With a 17 mile ride on a bowl of porridge it's unlikely that your troubles were down to a lack of food. You're more likely just building up your fitness, or maybe suffering from something else (poor sleep or something). It's also worth considering that your muscles will need a little while to warm up on each ride so don't expect to be at full pace straight away.

Herbsman

I would second the above.

When I first started riding (what I consider to be) longer distances I would feel like sh+t for the first 20 miles and struggle to keep up with my riding buddy, thinking "WTF is wrong with me?!". Then after an additional 30 miles of feeling fine, I would bonk spectacularly, despite a cafe stop and taking energy bars, energy drink etc with me.

It seems like such a long time ago, I can't actually believe that was me...

SBezza

A bowl of porridge would have done for the 17 miles and the rest of the morning in all honesty. There are times when my legs feel like lead, it is just how they are some mornings. Cold wet mornings it can be even worse, and it might take a few miles to loosen up and feel comfortable, that has nothing to do with food however.

As mentioned above, it could have been for a variety of reasons, but not being recovered from a previous ride is the most likely cause (well that is the case with me 99% of the time), depends on how hard the previous ride was and how long ago it was.

negativelycra

I too have done the porridge / first 8 miles are drastic trick. I decided i didn't eat early enough, not had the same problem since

polska1979

quick tip if your eating porridge, chuck a handfull of berries (cranberries, blueberries,blackberries) in with it. THe natural sugar in these will provide you with a kick before the slow release of the porridge.

just a tip i was given by my personal trainer a few years ago.

as for gels, i take a few with me just in case i scoff my food and feel a bonk coming on. try to steer away from caffeine though, the crash can be awful if you time them wrong.

I try to only use them in the last 30 minutes of a really hard ride >4hours &lots of climbing and sprinting/intervals

not saying they improve performance, just stave off the dreaded bonk

andyrr

Your requirement to take-on some form of food ('proper' food or energy gel or similar) will depend on a few factors
What you have recently consumed.
What energy you have burnt
What you anticipate your energy requirements will be
What level of effort.

If I was going to race or ride a decent length training ride or +2hrs or so then the pre-ride fuelling is important.
Bowl of porridge or rice pudding allowing sufficient time for this to digest before starting the ride : 2 - 3hrs for me.

Race-level effort of +3hrs then I might carry a gel to consume around 1/2way round, eg riding a 50 mile TT or road race.
A hard training ride of that length then I'd consume something part-way round - a gel or some easily digested energyy food, eg banana, cereal bar.

3hr training ride at a medium pace - will carry something to eat, probably 1 item I'll plan to have around 1/2 way round and 1 more as emergency, so cereal bar or similar and gel as get-me-home. I've sometimes carried a gel with my for a number of rides, not needing and I return home each time until one day I realise I'm going to be out for that bit longer than anticipated so I reach into the pocket and the gel saves the day !

If you are going out 1st thing in the morning then if you aren't able to have a decent pre-ride breakfast you'll need to carry more with you as opposed to a post-work ride when you can take on a decent lunch.

A reason for feeling rubbish for the 1st few miles can be that your body is trying to digest the food you've just eaten - that sounds like you have not had sufficient time to allow it to digest so either get up earlier, delay your ride or eat less before heading out.

Gels aren't all that expensive if bought in larger quantites - they're normally £1.25 or so each but can be < £1 when bought as a box or if you catch an offer on them.
Not a huge amount really.
If you aren't carrying a large saddlebag then once you load up with 2 x bottles on the bike and pockets are stuffed with pump, tubes, jacket, phone etc it doesn't leave much room for the 3 bananas and malt loaf !

spin_city

I think porridge is an excellent pre-ride breakfast but as others have said, it has a low GI (Glycaemic Index) which means it takes some time for the carbohydrates to be fully digested and available for use. (I think it's possible for your energy requirements to get ahead of the digestion process which can cause some problems.)

My advice would be to add some extra ingredients to your porridge, as follows:
Some 'fast acting' carbohydrates such as Brown Sugar, Honey or (my favourite) Golden Syrup added when it's ready to be eaten.
Also, some fruit (either fresh, dried or frozen) and some nuts or seeds can added about halfway through the cooking process. Examples of fruit you can use are Banana, Apple, any berries e.g. Blueberries or Rasberries, Raisins, Sultanas, Mixed Fruit, Prunes, Dates, Dried Apricots, Dried Figs (which I don't like), etc
Examples of nuts or seeds you can use are Almonds, Walnuts, Hazelnuts, etc and Mixed Seeds such as Pumpkin, Linseed, Sunflower, Sesame, etc.

My two personal favourite porridge breakfasts are i) sliced Banana, Sultanas and Golden Syrup and ii) chopped Dates, chopped Walnuts and Brown Sugar. The choices are endless though.

daxplusplus

I find museli is spot on for my 25+ mile commute - it's got raisins and nuts as well as oats. I use the no added sugar and salt versions. I can eat it and then be on my bike 20+ minutes later and seems to work for me.