Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

deejay

rayjay wrote:

the only thing LA done different was to win 7 tours
IMO

Known by all to have little value.

Richmond Racer

deejay wrote:

rayjay wrote:

the only thing LA done different was to win 7 tours
IMO

Known by all to have little value.

a trifle! a mere bagatelle!

jerry3571

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... s-gaggioli

Sure you folks have read this.

RichN95.

jerry3571 wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-bought-million-dollar-triple-crown-victory-claims-gaggioli

Sure you folks have read this.

That rumour's been around for years. I've never had any trouble believing it.

Yellow Peril

jerry3571 wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-bought-million-dollar-triple-crown-victory-claims-gaggioli

Sure you folks have read this.

Pro rider buys race shocker! Vino says "He paid well over the odds"

Richmond Racer

RichN95 wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-bought-million-dollar-triple-crown-victory-claims-gaggioli

Sure you folks have read this.

That rumour's been around for years. I've never had any trouble believing it.

Wasn't it Stephen Swart who was the first source of the story about Armstrong buying that race? Think story has Phil Anderson in the know too but he's always denied (naturally)

jerry3571

I think it not only shows the corruption of LA but the whole lot of them. It's a bit bonkers when people say "these days" corruption and doping doesn't happen. This shows professional cycle racing as it is. It's always been that way and probably always will be.
I personally think of professional racing as a simple advertising hoarding and an entertainment in the way that the Tour de France was designed for.

I'm sure the sponsors wouldn't be happy to see their riders were throwing races when they are the ones paying the tab.

deejay

RichN95 wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-bought-million-dollar-triple-crown-victory-claims-gaggioli
Sure you folks have read this.

That rumour's been around for years. I've never had any trouble believing it.

Same year and the above is believable because his 1992 USA backers brought him to Europe with such a fanfare.

1993 Tour du Pont Lance Armstrong, riding for team Motorola, challenged team WordPerfect's Raúl Alcalá for the victory; Alcala triumphed after outperforming Armstrong in a 36-mile (59 km) time trial, but the young American finished second.

This sticks in my memory as Raul Alcala punctured after he had caught and dropped LA and after LA went past the Mexican struggling with fixing a new wheel.
Alcala then caught and dropped LA again before the finish.
(Note that Alcala started the TT as race leader with LA as 2nd on GC)

Same year, but later.
LA then had a good win in Norway when he jumped away from the "selection" to win the World Road Race Championship and to be honest, that wasn't fixed.

jerry3571

I was disappointed in that race as I remember it was only LA descending like a nut in the wet which got him the gold. I wanted Indurain to win it as he was he strongest there. I guess Indurain didn't have a good jump to win a one day race which was a shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXsOR5O5hb0

deejay

jerry3571 wrote:

I was disappointed in that race as I remember it was only LA descending like a nut in the wet which got him the gold. I wanted Indurain to win it as he was he strongest there. I guess Indurain didn't have a good jump to win a one day race which was a shame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXsOR5O5hb0

Yup complete agreement and he finished 2nd here, which if the "Break" had worked together then who knows who would be champion.
I think they were all Nuts with that descent.
The Video didn't show all the "Tramlines" they crossed in the rain.

dennisn

jerry3571 wrote:

I was disappointed in that race as I remember it was only LA descending like a nut in the wet which got him the gold.

You make it sound that "descending like a nut" is somehow illegal or unprofessional or never done or cheating or something. :roll:
What was he supposed to do? Not go for it? :?

jerry3571

I think some races are decided on how nuts a rider is rather than who's the best. It's a fair tactic but doesn't find the best athlete but that's bike racing.

Just as a footnote, I can only race races like a Choad, as LA would put it, otherwise I get dropped so I know how it works.

littledove44

jerry3571 wrote:

I think some races are decided on how nuts a rider is rather than who's the best. It's a fair tactic but doesn't find the best athlete but that's bike racing.

Just as a footnote, I can only race races like a Choad, as LA would put it, otherwise I get dropped so I know how it works.

I know nothing about bike racing, but if being willing to push things to the edge is what you mean by being nuts then surely that is what winners do?

Formula 1, any motor racing, completion aerobatic flying, downhill skiing. All are generally won by someone who is competent enough to do something that others are not.

jerry3571

I'm never mad keen on descents being used on the last bit of a stage as some nutcase will descend and hit a lamp post. If you're in F1 then there's a bit of run off and safety gear but I've skidded down the road at 44mph in lycra before and it's not too nice. I think we've all seen stuff on tv too. I do put on a small TT and I feel responsible for the riders and with this I seem to have a slightly different perspective.
LA took his chances so fair play to him; I guess it was a bit too wet to write out cheques en route.

dave_1

the way Indurain takes the sprint from noted fastmen like Musseuw and Ludwig is ,...shall I say...odd...he could do it all could Miguel..climb like Herrera, sprint like Abdu, TT 6 mintes faster than established TDF gc time trialists

deejay

Dave_1 wrote:

the way Indurain takes the sprint from noted fastmen like Musseuw and Ludwig is ,...shall I say...odd...he could do it all could Miguel..climb like Herrera, sprint like Abdu, TT 6 mintes faster than established TDF gc time trialists

Oh yes he was a big strong lad that could ride like a powerful Steam Engine in Time Trials and use that power in a steady rhythm while climbing mountains.
See the Italians taking turns at attacking him in a 1993 Giro mountain climb where you think they had him broken but every time he would slowly catch them again & again because he had no sprint to catch them immediately.
Museeuw was not a sprinter in the class of Abdoujaparov and Ludwig had lost his edge in 93 and certainly after 6 and quarter hours in the saddle with heavy rain, it was the "Strength" that took that Silver Medal. So not odd at all.

Starting as a sprinter, Museeuw won the final stage of his first Tour de France in 1990. He subsequently traded his powerful sprint for more endurance and stamina that allowed him to win the spring classics such as Paris–Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders.

See the 1993 Gent Wevelgem last KM's for the Lead out train for Mario Cipollini and the last man in line was Johan Museeuw.

dave_1

deejay wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

the way Indurain takes the sprint from noted fastmen like Musseuw and Ludwig is ,...shall I say...odd...he could do it all could Miguel..climb like Herrera, sprint like Abdu, TT 6 mintes faster than established TDF gc time trialists

Oh yes he was a big strong lad that could ride like a powerful Steam Engine in Time Trials and use that power in a steady rhythm while climbing mountains.
See the Italians taking turns at attacking him in a 1993 Giro mountain climb where you think they had him broken but every time he would slowly catch them again & again because he had no sprint to catch them immediately.
Museeuw was not a sprinter in the class of Abdoujaparov and Ludwig had lost his edge in 93 and certainly after 6 and quarter hours in the saddle with heavy rain, it was the "Strength" that took that Silver Medal. So not odd at all.

Starting as a sprinter, Museeuw won the final stage of his first Tour de France in 1990. He subsequently traded his powerful sprint for more endurance and stamina that allowed him to win the spring classics such as Paris–Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders.

See the 1993 Gent Wevelgem last KM's for the Lead out train for Mario Cipollini and the last man in line was Johan Museeuw.

I think Indurain was on low octane in 1990 TDF...but high octane from 1991. He was + for salbutamol in 1994, his team mate said in court Banesto organised doping, the whle team got caught with Conconi,Hampsten said he was pressured to dope at Banesto.....seems totally ridiculous to even hint that Indurain was clean. You were just joking around in your last post no?

Richmond Racer

eeeeek

*runs and hides*

dave_1

Richmond Racer wrote:

eeeeek

*runs and hides*

I didn't see any smilies or winks..he's confused me there.

Bo Duke

Is there any real news? It only takes 9 months to make a baby but it seems to be taking years to hang this b'stard.

No_Ta_Doctor

Personally I was quite amused by the irony that when every other thread is veering off-topic into Sky-doping rubbish, this avowedly doping thread veered into a discussion of descending skills :-)

deejay

Dave_1 wrote:

I think Indurain was on low octane in 1990 TDF...but high octane from 1991. He was + for salbutamol in 1994, his team mate said in court Banesto organised doping, the whle team got caught with Conconi,Hampsten said he was pressured to dope at Banesto.....seems totally ridiculous to even hint that Indurain was clean. You were just joking around in your last post no?

You keep pushing and many, many, many pages ago I asked you to "Put Up or Shut Up".
You still have nothing NEW to say but carry on and you will achieve what you wanted all the time.

Not a debate but for the Mods to Lock this thread about your Fanboy Hero as it must hurt you so bad.

My Fan Boy Hero remains clean with the salbutamol Inuendo on the record but you keep mentioning.

In May 1994, Indurain tested positive for salbutamol following the Tour de L'Oise in France.
The IOC agreed with the UCI that Indurain would not be punished for using a drug banned outright in France because they accepted the salbutamol was contained in a nasal inhaler he had been using legitimately to aid his respiration.

And.
His so called Team mate said at the Festina Trial (27 Oct 2000)

Thomas Davy, who rode with Indurain in the Spanish team in 1995-96, claimed: "At Banesto there was a system of doping with medical supervision." Asked by the presiding judge Daniel Delegove if everyone in the team had used drugs, the Frenchman said hesitantly: "I don't know. I didn't go round all the rooms, but I think so."

Bruyneel at the time commented
"If all the team were on drugs, as he says then why did he ride well before he joined and not when with the team".

jerry3571

I think that it's a bit daft to think that a certain rider doped and another didn't as we've had so much endemic doping even from mediocre teams and riders that it's safer to say that it's common practice. I think the difference with LA is that he seemed to have a lot of back up from certain Governing bodies which may or may not be a new thing. I know a certain President in the 1950-60s was suppose to be open for business (past Procycling article) so there's nothing new in what has been happening with LA.

dave_1

deejay wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think Indurain was on low octane in 1990 TDF...but high octane from 1991. He was + for salbutamol in 1994, his team mate said in court Banesto organised doping, the whle team got caught with Conconi,Hampsten said he was pressured to dope at Banesto.....seems totally ridiculous to even hint that Indurain was clean. You were just joking around in your last post no?

You keep pushing and many, many, many pages ago I asked you to "Put Up or Shut Up".
You still have nothing NEW to say but carry on and you will achieve what you wanted all the time.

Not a debate but for the Mods to Lock this thread about your Fanboy Hero as it must hurt you so bad.

My Fan Boy Hero remains clean with the salbutamol Inuendo on the record but you keep mentioning.

In May 1994, Indurain tested positive for salbutamol following the Tour de L'Oise in France.
The IOC agreed with the UCI that Indurain would not be punished for using a drug banned outright in France because they accepted the salbutamol was contained in a nasal inhaler he had been using legitimately to aid his respiration.

And.
His so called Team mate said at the Festina Trial (27 Oct 2000)

Thomas Davy, who rode with Indurain in the Spanish team in 1995-96, claimed: "At Banesto there was a system of doping with medical supervision." Asked by the presiding judge Daniel Delegove if everyone in the team had used drugs, the Frenchman said hesitantly: "I don't know. I didn't go round all the rooms, but I think so."

Bruyneel at the time commented
"If all the team were on drugs, as he says then why did he ride well before he joined and not when with the team".

it's become a more interesting thread of late as the drip drip of LA's story comes out via himself and court related documents and such like.

As for Indurain clean, you must be having a laugh?????..Surely??

jerry3571

Dave_1 wrote:

deejay wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think Indurain was on low octane in 1990 TDF...but high octane from 1991. He was + for salbutamol in 1994, his team mate said in court Banesto organised doping, the whle team got caught with Conconi,Hampsten said he was pressured to dope at Banesto.....seems totally ridiculous to even hint that Indurain was clean. You were just joking around in your last post no?

You keep pushing and many, many, many pages ago I asked you to "Put Up or Shut Up".
You still have nothing NEW to say but carry on and you will achieve what you wanted all the time.

Not a debate but for the Mods to Lock this thread about your Fanboy Hero as it must hurt you so bad.

My Fan Boy Hero remains clean with the salbutamol Inuendo on the record but you keep mentioning.

In May 1994, Indurain tested positive for salbutamol following the Tour de L'Oise in France.
The IOC agreed with the UCI that Indurain would not be punished for using a drug banned outright in France because they accepted the salbutamol was contained in a nasal inhaler he had been using legitimately to aid his respiration.

And.
His so called Team mate said at the Festina Trial (27 Oct 2000)

Thomas Davy, who rode with Indurain in the Spanish team in 1995-96, claimed: "At Banesto there was a system of doping with medical supervision." Asked by the presiding judge Daniel Delegove if everyone in the team had used drugs, the Frenchman said hesitantly: "I don't know. I didn't go round all the rooms, but I think so."

Bruyneel at the time commented
"If all the team were on drugs, as he says then why did he ride well before he joined and not when with the team".

it's become a more interesting thread of late as the drip drip of LA's story comes out via himself and court related documents and such like.

As for Indurain clean, you must be having a laugh?????..Surely??

+1 It should be safe to assume.

I done some riding around Benidorm once and saw Indurain twice on his bike. This was just before his retirement when he had just abandoned the Vuelta. Just me and him passing in the opposite direction and no one for miles. Very strange. He gave me a small whistle to me as he passed. Jeremy Hunt wrote that was the way Indurain got the attention from his riders in races. Stranger than strange.

dave_1

jerry3571 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

deejay wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think Indurain was on low octane in 1990 TDF...but high octane from 1991. He was + for salbutamol in 1994, his team mate said in court Banesto organised doping, the whle team got caught with Conconi,Hampsten said he was pressured to dope at Banesto.....seems totally ridiculous to even hint that Indurain was clean. You were just joking around in your last post no?

You keep pushing and many, many, many pages ago I asked you to "Put Up or Shut Up".
You still have nothing NEW to say but carry on and you will achieve what you wanted all the time.

Not a debate but for the Mods to Lock this thread about your Fanboy Hero as it must hurt you so bad.

My Fan Boy Hero remains clean with the salbutamol Inuendo on the record but you keep mentioning.

In May 1994, Indurain tested positive for salbutamol following the Tour de L'Oise in France.
The IOC agreed with the UCI that Indurain would not be punished for using a drug banned outright in France because they accepted the salbutamol was contained in a nasal inhaler he had been using legitimately to aid his respiration.

And.
His so called Team mate said at the Festina Trial (27 Oct 2000)

Thomas Davy, who rode with Indurain in the Spanish team in 1995-96, claimed: "At Banesto there was a system of doping with medical supervision." Asked by the presiding judge Daniel Delegove if everyone in the team had used drugs, the Frenchman said hesitantly: "I don't know. I didn't go round all the rooms, but I think so."

Bruyneel at the time commented
"If all the team were on drugs, as he says then why did he ride well before he joined and not when with the team".

it's become a more interesting thread of late as the drip drip of LA's story comes out via himself and court related documents and such like.

As for Indurain clean, you must be having a laugh?????..Surely??

+1 It should be safe to assume.

I done some riding around Benidorm once and saw Indurain twice on his bike. This was just before his retirement when he had just abandoned the Vuelta. Just me and him passing in the opposite direction and no one for miles. Very strange. He gave me a small whistle to me as he passed. Jeremy Hunt wrote that was the way Indurain got the attention from his riders in races. Stranger than strange.

That's funny. Am sure Indurain is a nice guy and probably he could have got some decent results anyway. He's like Rominger, Bugno, Argentin, Roche..I feel all were EPO users..but had it not be invented we'd still have seen them at the front as they were good pre EPO. Indurain would have maybe top 5 or on a podium in a grand tour clean, but never have won one,... never mind 7 in 5 years during a period of massive EPO usage by almost all if not all

jerry3571

I have my suspicions that Hampsten and Lemond didn't fancy EPO and their results suffered. Lemond was said to have health problems before he retired but I think Lemond and Hampsten may have sussed out that a few Cross country Skiers were dropping like flies from heart failure/EPO use. Lemond and Hampsten may have been banging steroids but blood doping may have been a step too far. Just a hunch though.
I remember reading about Lucho Herrera getting beaten up mountains by big guys when EPO was first coming in. So this era is where it seems Blood Doping began.

deejay

jerry3571 wrote:

I have my suspicions that Hampsten and Lemond didn't fancy EPO and their results suffered. Lemond was said to have health problems before he retired but I think Lemond and Hampsten may have sussed out that a few Cross country Skiers were dropping like flies from heart failure/EPO use. Lemond and Hampsten may have been banging steroids but blood doping may have been a step too far. Just a hunch though.

That is exactly my point about Indurain seeing what was going on and stayed away from EPO.
This point is made by the 1994 Giro and Argentin and his EPO Gewiss-Ballan Team putting Indurain through a lot of punishment with Berzin winning the TT and the Overall race.
The three times Indurain rode the Giro he was worked over by the Italians but in 1994 he had no match to the EPO riders so he never went back.
In that year also Indurain was beaten in the TT by an EPO Gewiss-Ballan rider Piotr Ugrumov who first got involved with Argentin at Team Mecair-Ballan.
In the 1996 Tour de France Indurain was thrashed by Bjarne Riis another rider to have learnt about EPO in the Gewiss-Ballan Team and other EPO riders so he never went back.
I have my suspicions that Indurain did meet Conconi and like you say above, that he also wanted no part in EPO for the same reasons.

That Lemond watched the Skiers is known by his Time Trial position in that TDF Paris Finish. (I know the Triathletes used the Ski position also)

jerry3571

I think I am thinking that Indurain was the first generation where EPO was a being ramped up. Chiappucci too suddenly went from also ran to Tour contender in a very short time when Indurain won his first Tour. I "think" Indurain was in on it big style but alas so many others too. As for the Giro and Vuelta it was said Indurain never did well in cold weather so the Tour was the main objective.

Should we get back to LA?? Think we've digressed.

sherer

Verbruggen speaks

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/verbrug ... e-a-misery

Claims there was no cover up or backdated TUE in 99