Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

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  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    I issue for me is that he's had an entire career based on doping. Surely that has had a long term affect on his performance therefore he will have an advantage over other athletes that have been clean their entire careers. Surely he has to expect some sort of punishment for that.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    sherer wrote:
    I issue for me is that he's had an entire career based on doping. Surely that has had a long term affect on his performance therefore he will have an advantage over other athletes that have been clean their entire careers. Surely he has to expect some sort of punishment for that.


    In all honesty, doubt very much he'd get a reduction that'd make much difference to his burning desire to be competing again (which is basically so that he can start racking up some $$$ again)

    Mystic Meg's crystal ball says that it'll end with him being told that he he'll have to deal with the cruel Witchfinder General Tygart, that come hell and highwater he aint going to be competing again any time soon, he'll stomp and wail to the media that it's sooo unfair, and that he's not going to say anything because he's a victim of said cruel person...

    ...and that'll be that.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    sherer wrote:
    I issue for me is that he's had an entire career based on doping. Surely that has had a long term affect on his performance therefore he will have an advantage over other athletes that have been clean their entire careers. Surely he has to expect some sort of punishment for that.

    You could say that for pretty much everyone who raced between 93 and 08.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Very few of them go and do triathlons to win..
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    ThomThom wrote:
    Very few of them go and do triathlons to win..
    A lot of them went on to run and work in cycling teams, though. Other organised races or became agents. But that's OK, just as long as they don't come 42nd in the Dallas Ironman.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Are we seriously back to the old 'Lance was just like everyone else'?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    ThomThom wrote:
    Are we seriously back to the old 'Lance was just like everyone else'?
    No. You might be though. He really wasn't that different though. There's nothing in the WADA code banning being an a-hole.

    I can't see why anyone would be bothered if someone in his 40s runs a marathon or does a couple of triathlons after a two year ban.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    as others have already said he was one of the ring leaders on getting his team doping and encouraging others to dope and traffic PEDs across borders etc. He also was a ring leader of doping back in his Motorola days as well so that has to carry more weight than the others who served bans.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited November 2013
    sherer wrote:
    as others have already said he was one of the ring leaders on getting his team doping and encouraging others to dope and traffic PEDs across borders etc. He also was a ring leader of doping back in his Motorola days as well so that has to carry more weight than the others who served bans.
    Encouraging others to dope? Well according to the testimonies of other riders, plenty of them seemed to be doping prior to being on a team with Armstrong.
    Trafficing across boarders? So every other rider sourced their drugs locally did they?
    A ringleader at Motorola? Or just the team leader on one of the last teams to realise what was going on in cycling at the time. I suppose all the other team leaders had to be pinned down and injected.

    The only real difference between Armstrong and Ullrich, Pantani, Riis and many many others was that he was better at it and he was a dick about it. And because of that you want him to take on the sins of a whole generation.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    RichN95 wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    Are we seriously back to the old 'Lance was just like everyone else'?
    No. You might be though. He really wasn't that different though. There's nothing in the WADA code banning being an a-hole.

    I can't see why anyone would be bothered if someone in his 40s runs a marathon or does a couple of triathlons after a two year ban.


    Rich, would you be OK with the Hog's ban being reduced and him allowed to run a team again?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Rich, would you be OK with the Hog's ban being reduced and him allowed to run a team again?
    No. I don't want Vino and Ekimov running them either. But I wouldn't give a toss if ran the London Marathon.

    I'm not advocating letting Armstrong back into cycling - just letting him do some fun runs after two years.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    ThomThom wrote:
    Are we seriously back to the old 'Lance was just like everyone else'?

    What amazes me about these sort of comments is that you seem to know exactly how all the other doped team leaders behaved and that Armstrong in comparison is the devil.
    Do you imagine that Vino,Valverde ,Cipo ,Badger etc never bullied anyone never acted like tw%ts of course they did i.e " Apparently Vietto was a dominant character. After he lost his toe to sepsis in 1947, "Legend has it that Vietto insisted his domestique, Apo Lazarides, cut off one of his own toes to match. According to legend, Vietto's toe is in formaldehyde in a bar in Marseilles"
    Nothing will be achieved if everyone thinks getting Armstrong will be the cure for all. Next please
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    the trouble is he doesn't want to do fun runs he wants to compete. He's already at an advange due to years of PED abuse so why should he be allowed to compete against people who have been clean for years
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,439
    For me the only way he gets any reduction to his ban is to divulge something new and substantial.

    I'm sure if he had anything new and substantial to divulge he could have contacted USADA already.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    sherer wrote:
    the trouble is he doesn't want to do fun runs he wants to compete. He's already at an advange due to years of PED abuse so why should he be allowed to compete against people who have been clean for years
    And you think he's going to be competitive do you? He tried all that in 2006-2008 and wasn't any good. That's why he came back to cycling.
    His marathon time was 3hrs. People who do those sort of times are only interested in their own times, not whether they came 972nd or 973rd.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,439
    RichN95 wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    Are we seriously back to the old 'Lance was just like everyone else'?
    No. You might be though. He really wasn't that different though. There's nothing in the WADA code banning being an a-hole.

    Winning 7 TDFs makes him different.

    It may not seem fair but that's life.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TailWindHome wrote:

    Winning 7 TDFs makes him different.

    It may not seem fair but that's life.
    No it doesn't.

    Otherwise Ullrich or Contador or Basso would have got longer bans than any number of Continental standard riders.

    There's nothing in the WADA code to allow for longer bans for more successful or famous people.

    The only thing which distinguishes him from other dopers is that he was nominally listed as a Tailwind director. Otherwise he genuinely, in the eyes of the WADA code, just like every other doper.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    sherer wrote:
    the trouble is he doesn't want to do fun runs he wants to compete. He's already at an advange due to years of PED abuse so why should he be allowed to compete against people who have been clean for years
    He won't ride a pro race again and if he did,
    What PED advantage , Contador, JV's boys, Valverde etc etc :lol::lol::lol:
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.
    Unlike all the other dopers which held the code with great respect and adhered to its every rule?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.

    He was special. He won 7 tours. Lance acted like any other self obsessed athlete. No different from all the other riders who doped. Lance gets more punishment because the real issue of drugs in sport can be shoved away to one side while we hang Armstrong and the casual sports fans thinks everything is alright again.
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    edited November 2013
    Froome told Sky Sports News: "There is still so much that needs to be explained, needs to be elaborated on in order for everyone to be able to put this story to bed and, finally, move on from this.

    "There is still a lot of good that can be done through what he (Armstrong) has to say. And I think it would eventually put an end to that story and allow the rest of us to carry on with our careers.

    "It would be really good for the sport to know exactly what was happening at those times so that we can learn and move on from that.

    "I don't think it's good for the current situation of the sport to be lingering on what's happened in the past.

    "I'd want to see him come forward and really tell it like it is and say exactly what happened so that we can put the story to bed.

    "It happened more than a decade ago and we need to stop talking about it now."

    http://www1.skysports.com/cycling/news/ ... -of-doping
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    rayjay wrote:
    He was special. He won 7 tours. Lance acted like any other self obsessed athlete. No different from all the other riders who doped. Lance gets more punishment because the real issue of drugs in sport can be shoved away to one side while we hang Armstrong and the casual sports fans thinks everything is alright again.
    Because he was so special he gets very special Bans and Ridicule.
    He did it on his own for longer (except for Team Shyte Deutsche Telekom) and higher acclaim.
    So my dad told me that the bigger they are the farther they fall.
    IMHO, USADA got it right.

    You miss the point that he couldn't win a GT with his Natural Ability. Just not good enough. OK.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.

    Here again I think you make far more of LA than there actually is.
    Special? Sure, everyone thinks they are special at some point in their lives. What's so strange about that?
    "...above the WADA code"? Bullsh#t. He knew that what he was doing was wrong. I mean really "Blazing....", how many people did LA watch get busted in his era? If you watch 10 men get killed in your infantry company you learn really quick that you're NOT "too GOOD for a bullet". He knew it could happen to him. Therefore he didn't place himself "above the WADA code" he simply tried to outwit it.
    His ego, or maybe it was his "connections" assured him that he didn't need to "quit while he was ahead".
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    RichN95 wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.
    Unlike all the other dopers which held the code with great respect and adhered to its every rule?

    Unlike all the other dopers who didn't get charged with administration and trafficking of performance-enhancing drugs.
    Anyhow, the latest noise is that he could be getting a reduction to 8 years.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.
    Unlike all the other dopers which held the code with great respect and adhered to its every rule?

    Unlike all the other dopers who didn't get charged with administration and trafficking of performance-enhancing drugs.
    Anyhow, the latest noise is that he could be getting a reduction to 8 years.
    As I mentioned before, 'trafficing' is a trumped up charge. No doper got their drugs from each individual country they went to. Taking small amounts for personal use isn't trafficing. He's hardly Howard Marx.

    What people really want is some reason to demonize him while retaining their admiration for the likes of Ullrich or Pantani or whoever.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    deejay wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    He was special. He won 7 tours. Lance acted like any other self obsessed athlete. No different from all the other riders who doped. Lance gets more punishment because the real issue of drugs in sport can be shoved away to one side while we hang Armstrong and the casual sports fans thinks everything is alright again.
    Because he was so special he gets very special Bans and Ridicule.
    He did it on his own for longer (except for Team Shyte Deutsche Telekom) and higher acclaim.
    So my dad told me that the bigger they are the farther they fall.
    IMHO, USADA got it right.

    You miss the point that he couldn't win a GT with his Natural Ability. Just not good enough. OK.

    You don't know how long the other teams or riders were doping. What we do know is that Postal were not in the same league when it came to doping as some of the other teams. The witness accounts bear this out. Armstrong was a world champion. You miss the point, tell me one of his GC rivals who was riding clean on natural ability. Infact tell me a rider who could have won at that time on natural ability?
    If a big man just falls over onto the ground and a small man falls over a cliff the, the small man has fallen further than the big man.
    My dad is dead FYI.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    RichN95 wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Lance considered himself to be special, Lance placed himself above the WADA code.
    Lance gets special punishment above the WADA code.
    Nice symmetry.
    Unlike all the other dopers which held the code with great respect and adhered to its every rule?

    Unlike all the other dopers who didn't get charged with administration and trafficking of performance-enhancing drugs.
    Anyhow, the latest noise is that he could be getting a reduction to 8 years.
    As I mentioned before, 'trafficing' is a trumped up charge. No doper got their drugs from each individual country they went to. Taking small amounts for personal use isn't trafficing. He's hardly Howard Marx.

    What people really want is some reason to demonize him while retaining their admiration for the likes of Ullrich or Pantani or whoever.


    The team being personal use?
    My definition of trafficking and yours, seem to differ.
    I don't seek to demonetize him, merely forget about him.
    In that respect, I'd be prefer to get 2 or 3 years without him in the media, than
    a life ban and the media attention.

    Doping and getting caught is a lottery. So too is the penalty.
    David Millar and Tyler Hamilton, back in 2004 for instance.
    The first, small time domestique who gets a 4year ban, when they arrive will be equally hard done by.
    I doubt whether he'll have anyone fighting his corner, though.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    The team being personal use?
    My definition of trafficking and yours, seem to differ.
    I don't seek to demonetize him, merely forget about him.
    In that respect, I'd be prefer to get 2 or 3 years without him in the media, than
    a life ban and the media attention.
    The team is personal use, yes. There was no intent to supply to others. And the physical trafficing wasn't done by Armstrong personally it was done by the likes of Motoman and Emma O'Reilly on behalf of the team, not Armstrong along.

    I'd agree with you on the media stuff, but the media don't seem to be able to let go - especially many of those that blew smoke up his ar5e back in the day now trying erase the memory.

    As for the lowly domestique getting a four year ban - it won't be harsh he knows the rules and the risks. But if he gets a lifetime ban while others get a slap on the wrist?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    RichN95 wrote:
    His marathon time was 3hrs. People who do those sort of times are only interested in their own times, not whether they came 972nd or 973rd.
    Not true. His triathlon (and to a lesser extent running) results put him at the forefront of the age groupers... and trust me that matters to many people (especially over here - be aware that in the US there are weight category awards up for grabs too).
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