Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped
Comments
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has Bruyneel got something on Vaughters? Certainly am wondering what Johan has up his sleeve..he will not go down alone...can see from his tweets0
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ddraver wrote:Money money money Mah ney...MAH NEEEEY!
I can't help but think that LA didn't have the money and or the power to stop all this when it started, so I can't see him having the "MAH NEEEEY" and or the power to do much about now. As of right now, if he owed me money and wrote me a check I would have to wonder if it was going to clear the bank. Right now, all I see is him hemorraging
money at a rate that he can't sustain for much longer. His lawyers, by themselves, will suck him dry like vampires and then desert him, let alone all the other money drains that he must have going on(houses, etc.).0 -
dennisn wrote:ddraver wrote:Money money money Mah ney...MAH NEEEEY!
I can't help but think that LA didn't have the money and or the power to stop all this when it started, so I can't see him having the "MAH NEEEEY" and or the power to do much about now. As of right now, if he owed me money and wrote me a check I would have to wonder if it was going to clear the bank. Right now, all I see is him hemorraging
money at a rate that he can't sustain for much longer. His lawyers, by themselves, will suck him dry like vampires and then desert him, let alone all the other money drains that he must have going on(houses, etc.).
Well I'd write a "check" for a couple of hundred dollars for one of his TdF shirts. With my favourite pantomime baddie (Ricco) in a resting phase LA is monopolising all of the villainy at the moment. To be honest I'm sure he has plenty of equity beyond what he should pay back in winning fees and sponsors bonuses. He probably hasn't put his hand in his pocket for a long time and will have lots of cash squirrelled away.
As ridiculous as it seems I don't think it is too late for redemption of sorts, what people don't like is continual denial. He could be the prodigal son (he's probably on the telephone to Riis as I write)0 -
dennisn wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:The interesting one though if it gets investigated will be the bonuses and the way the USPS money was spent. IF the team management is known to have been involved in doping (privvy to it going on) then as I see it, they will have to answer to the US Govt (I think they own USPS?) as to why the team management knowingly took tax payers/govt funds and spent it as they did.
Whenever someone mentions USPS I'm always reminded of the the post on this thread, sometime back, when someone compared this to getting a paycheck from your employer. You put in the work and deliver whatever goods are required and collect your paycheck. Question is does your employer have a say in how you spend it? USPS paid money to a cycling team to have their name splashed around all over the world and that surely happened. I'm sort of with the guy who posted that idea, in that USPS got what they wanted and paid for. Now? Well, it doesn't look too good from their point of view but back then I didn't hear any complaints about not getting what they paid for.
I would have to assume that this concept was definitely talked about in those Grand Jury years, and by everyone involved. It may be a simplistic way of looking at it but I do see a bit of merit in that thinking.
I hate it when you quote me Dennis as its like talking to a scenile grandfather, sorry but that's that. Have a toffee
Several points; 1, being paid a salary is one thing, spend it as you wish (within the laws of the land) its payments for services provided. 2. Sponsorship, IF the team management were involved in the doping, it is possible they may be called to answer for how the USPS funds were spent to ensure no wrong doing, this may be exacerbated by the Italian investigation. I would have thought that if they knew LA was doping, they were willingly exposing the brand etc to fraud etc 3. As I said, some sponsors (most) will probably want as many miles as is possible between LA and their names. USPS, given its funded by Govt funds (I think) might not have much of a choice but to investigate these 'investments' for misappropriation or any other wrong doing.
The ban etc is a legitimate cycling punishment. Might have got away with two years! What he might lose control of is if he is proven to be involved in the money side of life and the associated racketeering. Because he controlled the USPS doping, how do we know he wasn't involved in the other teams doping too? If though he is innocent of any further wrong doing then so be it, why wont he speak out? Because he will perjure himself? Please don't feel sorry for him, he is the Worlds biggest cheat bar none - that got caught.0 -
Dave_1 wrote:has Bruyneel got something on Vaughters? Certainly am wondering what Johan has up his sleeve..he will not go down alone...can see from his tweets
I'm with you. He's not going quietly into the night. He's pulling the rug and taking others with him. Could be UCI, USA Cycling, race organisers, anti-doping agencies, any combo - but I reckon its going to be bloody and its going to be very noisy.
EDIT: I just have this funny funny feeling that Yates may be called as some kind of witness. I'm probably completely out in la-la land on this one. But I have this niggle in my mind that this is mixed up with his 'retirement'.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:has Bruyneel got something on Vaughters? Certainly am wondering what Johan has up his sleeve..he will not go down alone...can see from his tweets
I'm with you. He's not going quietly into the night. He's pulling the rug and taking others with him. Could be UCI, USA Cycling, race organisers, anti-doping agencies, any combo - but I reckond its going to be bloody and its going to be very noisy.
Probably true, whereas Armstrong was balancing a huge house of interconnected cards - Johan, is pretty much just Johan...
Dennis - If you had forgotten, Armstrong kept this away (and you a fan) for many many years....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:Dennis - If you had forgotten, Armstrong kept this away (and you a fan) for many many years....
Couldn't agree more about his keeping it away for years, but at what should have been the height of his powers he found the whole thing coming apart and, at least thus far, has been unable to control much of the damage(for lack of a better word). Now, what with his powers, support, and money drastically diminished, I don't see him stopping and or controlling very much of anything that happens.0 -
ddraver wrote:Hmm, I dunno - he's not lost any money at all yet (a lot of future earnings mind). I'd reckon there's a lot of paying back/settlements being made to prevent more coming out...
If he is paying bribes, etc. to people to keep quiet and settling old debts with past sponsors and supporters then he has lost money. Money which is not being replaced at the rate it goes out. His high end lawyers alone will suck as much money as they can from him, then bail out. Add to that the fact that I doubt he's going to find a really good paying job anytime soon. At least not one that will support his "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous".0 -
I'm not sure this is as difficult as you re making out dennis
I mean he is trying to settle as much stuff out of court as is possible to lose as little money as he can and prevent any of it getting into court where he has to tell the truth and, weirdly enough, perjure himself (though I suspect that's a secondary priority).
I'd be surprised if it works 100%, but he's going to try as much as possible, Just postponing it a few years until we ve all forgotten about him would help!
Either that or he's helping Bruyneel build the best case possible in the hope he can stem the flow a little, but I suspect those two are not speaking much at the mo...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
This is pretty much what he's doing.
So take the SCA case. They want $11m. His lawyers have started with an offer of $1m. They knew SCA would laugh them out of the door, but that's how the game starts. For arguments sake let's they say end up settling on $7m. SCA have saved themselves a huge bundle of legal fees for a case they cant be 100% sure they'd win (what case is 100% anyway?), and so's Lance. Sure he's had to pay up but he's kept out of court, it curtails the blood-letting that are his lawyers fees on this specific lawsuit - and crucially it keeps HIM out of court and out of a public, televised hearing.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:has Bruyneel got something on Vaughters? Certainly am wondering what Johan has up his sleeve..he will not go down alone...can see from his tweets
I'm with you. He's not going quietly into the night. He's pulling the rug and taking others with him. Could be UCI, USA Cycling, race organisers, anti-doping agencies, any combo - but I reckon its going to be bloody and its going to be very noisy.
EDIT: I just have this funny funny feeling that Yates may be called as some kind of witness. I'm probably completely out in la-la land on this one. But I have this niggle in my mind that this is mixed up with his 'retirement'.
Could'nt agree more. If the whole truth, IF that is the whole truth does ever come to light it will be an amazing read. Armstrong could be a small player, crazy, I dont think he will be the one panicking the most at this time.0 -
patience amigo... he has some hard evidence
and will damage many on his way down. There
are two sides to every story0 -
ddraver wrote:Money money money Mah ney...MAH NEEEEY!
"follow the money.....just, follow the money" (Hal Holbrook, All the President's men)
http://velorooms.com/files/ArmstrongBusinessConnectionsV2.pdfJohny0 -
Conspiracy Theory #12767.
LA is simply the tip of the iceberg. The visable part. The part of the iceberg that ripped a hole in the Titanic was the real culprit and it was never seen. The tip of the iceberg is more a symptom of things than the real problem. People see it and say "oh my, look at the pretty iceberg" not thinking that lurking below is a very, very powerful force that lies hidden. The tip doesn't even know just how deep and huge the thing it rests on and is part of actually is.
I'm starting to believe that LA is simply the aches, pains, and runny nose and that pneumonia in the lungs is really the problem. :?0 -
ddraver wrote:erm....what?
Not sure there is much conspiracy about at the moment, for the first time since 1998!
I was only contemplating on the subject of LA being both at the top and the bottom of the iceberg. I can't get passed the idea that he's the whole cube of ice. Even if he was the whole 'berg there are still ocean currents to be taken into account, as they actually move that chunk of ice and we damn sure don't see them. Just the results of what they do.
I'm thinking people want Lance to be the whole restaurant but he may simply be the special of the day that they didn't care for. What the heck, the special of the day is usually pretty good but every once in a while it gets over cooked or maybe even spilled on you. Other forces may be at hand causing the plate to be dumped in your lap.0 -
dennisn wrote:ddraver wrote:erm....what?
Not sure there is much conspiracy about at the moment, for the first time since 1998!
I was only contemplating on the subject of LA being both at the top and the bottom of the iceberg. I can't get passed the idea that he's the whole cube of ice. Even if he was the whole 'berg there are still ocean currents to be taken into account, as they actually move that chunk of ice and we damn sure don't see them. Just the results of what they do.
I'm thinking people want Lance to be the whole restaurant but he may simply be the special of the day that they didn't care for. What the heck, the special of the day is usually pretty good but every once in a while it gets over cooked or maybe even spilled on you. Other forces may be at hand causing the plate to be dumped in your lap.
The special of the day is ice cream?
Dennis, man, did you drop a lot of acid back in the 60s?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:
Dennis, man, did you drop a lot of acid back in the 60s?
Well, I've posted enough so you should know all about me. After all, you know all about LA by reading about him.
With me, at least it's all been personal(me to you and you to me) so you shouldn't have any trouble figuring out my life.
You now all about LA without ANY personal interaction, so my life should be easy for you to dissect.
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Errrrrrm, kay...
I think I know what your saying. I don't think you re on the right lines with him being the whole of...whatever.
Becasue he has sold his story (brave, strong cancer survivor come champion cyclist), people have paid an awful lot of money to him and it has now been shown that it was all build on a lie, people want that money back. He's fightin to make sure that story stays as private as possible and that he pays out as little money as possible
Not sure how to fit that into an iceberg though....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:Errrrrrm, kay...
I think I know what your saying. I don't think you re on the right lines with him being the whole of...whatever.
Becasue he has sold his story (brave, strong cancer survivor come champion cyclist), people have paid an awful lot of money to him and it has now been shown that it was all build on a lie, people want that money back. He's fightin to make sure that story stays as private as possible and that he pays out as little money as possible
Not sure how to fit that into an iceberg though....
I'm not so sure everyone wants their money back. Oh sure, some will, but say I GAVE you 100 dollars to get your car fixed
because you said you needed it, in order to get to work, but later I find you spent it on booze. My thinking would be more on the lines of "that's the last time I help you out". Key words in all this being "gave" or "donated" it to you.
As for the iceberg thing, I'm just saying that LA is just the tip of it. Much more ice(people) below him that may be the real movers and shakers in all this. LA is just a part of the visible ice. The tip of the ice didn't rip the hole in Titanic.0 -
Hang on...tweet just a few minutes ago from Vaughters:
'For the "ban them all!" amongst you, consider this: USADA report contained over 30 redacted names-that's from only 11 witnesses. #tipoficeberg
This can be no mere coincidence.
dennis, are you in fact Vaughters? If so, I claim my £50 -
Dennis, chill man, I was commentating on your mastery of surrealist mixed metaphors.
As for whether Lance is just part of something bigger or not, I think that was what we were trying to tell you for a couple of years while you were insisting we were obsessing about one rider.... Nice to see you got there in the end ;-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Hang on...tweet just a few minutes ago from Vaughters:
'For the "ban them all!" amongst you, consider this: USADA report contained over 30 redacted names-that's from only 11 witnesses. #tipoficeberg
This can be no mere coincidence.
dennis, are you in fact Vaughters? If so, I claim my £5
Yes I am. When will you be sending me my half?0 -
dennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Hang on...tweet just a few minutes ago from Vaughters:
'For the "ban them all!" amongst you, consider this: USADA report contained over 30 redacted names-that's from only 11 witnesses. #tipoficeberg
This can be no mere coincidence.
dennis, are you in fact Vaughters? If so, I claim my £5
Yes I am. When will you be sending me my half?
No, sorry, I get the whole amount. How's it going with that Change Cycling thingy, JV?0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:As for whether Lance is just part of something bigger or not, I think that was what we were trying to tell you for a couple of years while you were insisting we were obsessing about one rider.... Nice to see you got there in the end ;-)
FWIW it sure seemed to me that most everyone had LA and only LA in the crosshairs and then it started to spread out a bit to other targets. I think, in the end, we will all find out that he wasn't A#1, top of the heap, or the HMFIC.0 -
Hey Dennisn, I just realised that one of my all time favourite TV characters - Corporal Klinger from MASH - was/is from your hometown:
That's all... back to the iceberg stuff.0 -
So mr Ohio are you trying to tell us that Jim Ochowicz (the present BMC manager) who brought the Texan Triathlete to Europe on the 7 Eleven team is still a mister BIG in the Fraudsters programme. :roll:dennisn wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:As for whether Lance is just part of something bigger or not, I think that was what we were trying to tell you for a couple of years while you were insisting we were obsessing about one rider.... Nice to see you got there in the end ;-)
FWIW it sure seemed to me that most everyone had LA and only LA in the crosshairs and then it started to spread out a bit to other targets. I think, in the end, we will all find out that he wasn't A#1, top of the heap, or the HMFIC.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
ratsbeyfus wrote:Hey Dennisn, I just realised that one of my all time favourite TV characters - Corporal Klinger from MASH - was/is from your hometown:
Oh yeah, he is definately the man(so to speak) here in Toledo. Seems like everyone who visits Toledo just has to go to Tony Packos for a dog and bowl of chili. Every year Jamie puts on an big LPGA event.0
