Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

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  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    i am wondering why Lance is in Kona Hawaii again. can he duck a depositiom being off the mainland?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Dave_1 wrote:
    i am wondering why Lance is in Kona Hawaii again. can he duck a depositiom being off the mainland?

    Looking out my window, if there was any way on earth that I could be in Kona Hawaii right now I'd jump at the chance. Time to finally fit those mudguards I think. :-(

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    I find it strange the way human nature wants heroes and yet wants to destroy their heroes. It's a kind of mass insecurity, people want something to look up to and get a buzz off but, at the same time, want to destroy it because it makes them feel insecure.

    Danielle Dax
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,439
    For the love of God Dennis will you not let it go.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    TailWindHome wrote:
    For the love of God Dennis will you not let it go.

    C'mon now. I'm obsessed, just like everyone else on this thread. :wink:
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    dennisn wrote:
    I find it strange the way human nature wants heroes and yet wants to destroy their heroes. It's a kind of mass insecurity, people want something to look up to and get a buzz off but, at the same time, want to destroy it because it makes them feel insecure.

    Danielle Dax
    That is the difference with cycle racing experience that those of us who have it can also see an outlandish "Conman" trying to pull the wool over your eyes since 1999 when "we" first saw it.
    We actually looked down on the prick and have tried to educate you gullible people about the way the CON was working with a Fraudulent Low Life'
    The pest is not destroyed yet and I still feel "Secure" in the knowledge that one day the pest will be crushed.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • mercsport
    mercsport Posts: 664
    Actually deejay, re' 'we' :shock: :!: I'd guess that there are many within this throng that had perceived LA to be a prick long before 1999. :wink:
    "Lick My Decals Off, Baby"
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    mercsport wrote:
    Actually deejay, re' 'we' :shock: :!: I'd guess that there are many within this throng that had perceived LA to be a prick long before 1999. :wink:

    So you spotted BrianS was just browsing this forum too, eh?
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    mercsport wrote:
    Actually deejay, re' 'we' :shock: :!: I'd guess that there are many within this throng that had perceived LA to be a prick long before 1999. :wink:
    From 1992 I thought he was a Loudmouth, Big-headed Prick, but I'm not clever enough to realise at that time he was a Fraudulent Conman also.
    If some of you could see his Fraudulent Conman before 1999, then I take my hat of to you.
    Nah, he wasn't that good to take much notice of.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    mercsport wrote:
    Actually deejay, re' 'we' :shock: :!: I'd guess that there are many within this throng that had perceived LA to be a prick long before 1999. :wink:

    So you spotted BrianS was just browsing this forum too, eh?

    The same Brian S who has gone from LA fan, doing the rounds telling people how he used to mentor a young LA back in the day and has now done a massive U turn telling all who will listen that LA had him sacked for not wanting to take drugs?

    This must be a different Brian to the one who used to race premier calendar in the 90s ;)
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    mercsport wrote:
    Actually deejay, re' 'we' :shock: :!: I'd guess that there are many within this throng that had perceived LA to be a prick long before 1999. :wink:

    So you spotted BrianS was just browsing this forum too, eh?

    The same Brian S who has gone from LA fan, doing the rounds telling people how he used to mentor a young LA back in the day and has now done a massive U turn telling all who will listen that LA had him sacked for not wanting to take drugs?

    This must be a different Brian to the one who used to race premier calendar in the 90s ;)


    Well, common name, easy to confuse two Scottish riders racing in exactly the same period...Yeah, the same.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    The same Brian S who has gone from LA fan, doing the rounds telling people how he used to mentor a young LA back in the day and has now done a massive U turn telling all who will listen that LA had him sacked for not wanting to take drugs?

    This must be a different Brian to the one who used to race premier calendar in the 90s ;)
    Well, common name, easy to confuse two Scottish riders racing in exactly the same period...Yeah, the same.
    With exactly the same palmares :wink: :roll:
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    the+usual.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    deejay wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    The same Brian S who has gone from LA fan, doing the rounds telling people how he used to mentor a young LA back in the day and has now done a massive U turn telling all who will listen that LA had him sacked for not wanting to take drugs?

    This must be a different Brian to the one who used to race premier calendar in the 90s ;)
    Well, common name, easy to confuse two Scottish riders racing in exactly the same period...Yeah, the same.
    With exactly the same palmares :wink: :roll:


    Joke. :) Of course its B Smith doing a complete turnaround
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    The same Brian S who has gone from LA fan, doing the rounds telling people how he used to mentor a young LA back in the day and has now done a massive U turn telling all who will listen that LA had him sacked for not wanting to take drugs?

    This must be a different Brian to the one who used to race premier calendar in the 90s ;)
    Well, common name, easy to confuse two Scottish riders racing in exactly the same period...Yeah, the same.
    With exactly the same palmares :wink: :roll:


    Joke. :) Of course its B Smith doing a complete turnaround
    If you say so, but with his omerta I put him in the same brown nose file as Liggett & Sherwin.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    Bruyneels view on this initiative

    @JohanBruyneel
    A bunch of douches r gonna meet in London 2 change cycling. But why is @Vaughters not on the list?

    1494894-stay-classy.gif
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    As an aside from Bruyneel's trolling -or troll-poking - funnily enough I think JV is attending this little get-together. At any rate he's flying here tomorrow night according to his twitter feed
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    untrue.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Nick Fitt
    Nick Fitt Posts: 381
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?


    Trying to cut deals all over the place behind closed doors
  • Nick Fitt
    Nick Fitt Posts: 381
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?


    Trying to cut deals all over the place behind closed doors

    Yup, I reckon if he has 35mn USD, he is about to give 30 of that to lawyers.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?

    Aren't you overlooking all that's happened to him so far? Loss of a high end lifestyle, loss of TDF titles(no longer a hero), sponsors abandoning him all the time, no new sponsors on the horizon, appearance fees down to nil(most likely), loss of his charity, loss of some or all of his high end homes(most likely soon enough), lack of income, no one looking to hire him(well, maybe a confessional book deal), explaining all this to friends and family, potential for various lawsuits hanging over his head, his big time lawyers most likely deserting him, most likely has to pay for travel these days(7 time TDF winner perks are gone). And all that for starters. Don't know about you but that sounds to me like quite a few things to have looming over your head. I realize that more than a few people on this forum want his head on a stake, but that's not going to happen. Instead he will just sort of slowly be ground down by all this and maybe even spend time in jail. At least that's how I see it.
  • rob churchill
    rob churchill Posts: 272
    Isn't Bruyneel's CAS hearing supposed to happen before the end of the year? He said we'd get a 'more balanced account' which suggests to me he's not going to deny everything, just shift blame - that could blow things up again for LA. SCA and the Sunday Times will be talking to their lawyers, but they're not going to rush decisions. I think this will be good for another 158 pages yet. :mrgreen:
    I have a policy of only posting comment on the internet under my real name. This is to moderate my natural instinct to flame your fatuous, ill-informed, irrational, credulous, bigoted, semi-literate opinions to carbon, you knuckle-dragging f***wits.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?


    Trying to cut deals all over the place behind closed doors

    I'm of the opinion that he's not in much of a positon to "...cut deals all over the place....". He's been busted and is no longer in control of the game. It's not about what he wants anymore. It's about what the people who supported him want to do with him and get back from him.
    IMHO
  • Nick Fitt
    Nick Fitt Posts: 381
    Well, thats why he will be paying lawyers imho. His name is shit and so he is going to struggle to travel, play, work etc. It needs resolution.

    As I understand it, defrauding sponsors is not likely to be an issue; they will want to move on as a high profile legal battle will definitely bring their brands into the merd with consumers who might not be that worried or aware of LAs sponsors (its mainly cycling fans who are up in arms). Also, he was doping before and so they backed a dodgy product, buyer beware etc (unless he has stated in a contract with them he has never doped). I think that you have to start to defraud them after the contract is signed for them to have you.

    The interesting one though if it gets investigated will be the bonuses and the way the USPS money was spent. IF the team management is known to have been involved in doping (privvy to it going on) then as I see it, they will have to answer to the US Govt (I think they own USPS?) as to why the team management knowingly took tax payers/govt funds and spent it as they did.

    I could be totally wrong of course but I'm pretty sure the SCA bonuses, USPS funds mis-spent and possibly Ferraris involvement in the money laundering/racketeering investigation in Italy will be the main issues. No idea if LA is connected to the Italy investigation but, to me that seems very serious as you have cross border evasion of taxes, racketeering, money laundering etc. as Ferrari is involved, I imagine LA was too, all speculation on my part but its how I see it at this time anyway. I just wish the battle would start! It will be big.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    dennisn wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?


    Trying to cut deals all over the place behind closed doors

    I'm of the opinion that he's not in much of a positon to "...cut deals all over the place....". He's been busted and is no longer in control of the game. It's not about what he wants anymore. It's about what the people who supported him want to do with him and get back from him.
    IMHO


    It depends, Dennis. The other parties will weigh up the amount of money they'll spend on legal fees in litigation and the % probability of winning, In the little experience I have, there is usually a readiness to settle out of court unless the likelihood of winning in court is close to or at 100%. And one cant just say 'he doped' therefore all claims against him must be guaranteed to win - too many sheds of grey for that, and each case will be v different.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    The interesting one though if it gets investigated will be the bonuses and the way the USPS money was spent. IF the team management is known to have been involved in doping (privvy to it going on) then as I see it, they will have to answer to the US Govt (I think they own USPS?) as to why the team management knowingly took tax payers/govt funds and spent it as they did.

    Whenever someone mentions USPS I'm always reminded of the the post on this thread, sometime back, when someone compared this to getting a paycheck from your employer. You put in the work and deliver whatever goods are required and collect your paycheck. Question is does your employer have a say in how you spend it? USPS paid money to a cycling team to have their name splashed around all over the world and that surely happened. I'm sort of with the guy who posted that idea, in that USPS got what they wanted and paid for. Now? Well, it doesn't look too good from their point of view but back then I didn't hear any complaints about not getting what they paid for.
    I would have to assume that this concept was definately talked about in those Grand Jury years, and by everyone involved. It may be a simplistic way of looking at it but I do see a bit of merit in that thinking.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    dennisn wrote:
    Nick Fitt wrote:
    Is it possible that nothing will happen regards this chap? SCA money, sponsor fraud etc? It just seems awfully quiet. What use is the biggest sporting scandal in the history of sport if it only lasts 158 pages on a forum?

    Aren't you overlooking all that's happened to him so far? Loss of a high end lifestyle, loss of TDF titles(no longer a hero), sponsors abandoning him all the time, no new sponsors on the horizon, appearance fees down to nil(most likely), loss of his charity, loss of some or all of his high end homes(most likely soon enough), lack of income, no one looking to hire him(well, maybe a confessional book deal), explaining all this to friends and family, potential for various lawsuits hanging over his head, his big time lawyers most likely deserting him, most likely has to pay for travel these days(7 time TDF winner perks are gone). And all that for starters. Don't know about you but that sounds to me like quite a few things to have looming over your head. I realize that more than a few people on this forum want his head on a stake, but that's not going to happen. Instead he will just sort of slowly be ground down by all this and maybe even spend time in jail. At least that's how I see it.


    Never thought I'd agree with dennis...but he's right. Lance is on a slide and its only going in one direction. One of the things that dennis hasnt mentioned and that I think is massive to Lance, is the devastating affect to his image of himself as reflected back to him by other people. I know I've banged on about this before but his personality absolutely feeds off peoples admiring, ultra-positive, heroic image of him. Sure, he can continue to surround himself with yes men - as long as he pays them or there's something else in it for them. And he will retain a core of believers who refuse to give up on him perhaps more because of the effect doing so will have on them personally. But everyone else? He goes out into public - he's get the looks, the people who turn away, the people who very obviously go out of their way to avoid having to shake his hand, or say hello. The loss of the widespread adulation and admiration is going to damage him as much as anything else.

    Personally, I'm not bothered by what happens to him next. I'm far more interested in seeing Bruyneel and Riis chucked out of the sport.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,700
    Yep, agree with RR, including him doing deals left right and centre to try and minimise any damage
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    ddraver wrote:
    Yep, agree with RR, including him doing deals left right and centre to try and minimise any damage

    Just out of curiousity, where is all this power coming from for him to do all these deals and impose his will on people? I wouldn't think he would have much power or sway over much of anyone these days. Short of some sort of blackmail on his part I just don't see it. Has he got enough money to bribe all these people? I think not. Whatever power he may have once wielded has got to be quickly slipping away if not mostly gone by now.

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