La Vuelta

Paulie W

gabriel959 wrote:

They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run.

What are you talking about?! The nature of 'racing' is that there are often long periods of truce - over the years the Vuelta more than any GT has been about long periods of taking it easy!

rick_chasey

Like today:

First hour of racing: 30.7km/h. 11'55" gap for one rider at 41km.

gabriel959

Paulie W wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run.

What are you talking about?! The nature of 'racing' is that there are often long periods of truce - over the years the Vuelta more than any GT has been about long periods of taking it easy!

The pace might be pedestrian, it is still a race.

I am talking about what most pro's are saying too.

gabriel959

Gizmo_ wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run. Same for the tacks in the Tour.

The excuses from Sky are pathetic as well. Almost as bad as Valverde's.

You must have hated watching the track sprinting at the Olympics.

Why is that? I only watched some of it because god oh god track cycling is dull.

Gizmo_

gabriel959 wrote:

Why is that? I only watched some of it because god oh god track cycling is dull.

I mean that for the first couple of minutes of the sprint, they hardly move at all.

gabriel959

In any case, Valv.Piti didn't need any help to crash, he has got a master degree in the discipline, 3 crashes this year. What a tool.

gabriel959

Gizmo_ wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

Why is that? I only watched some of it because god oh god track cycling is dull.

I mean that for the first couple of minutes of the sprint, they hardly move at all.

Racing isn't all about speed

Unless you are a sky robot of course

rolf_f

gabriel959 wrote:

They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run. Same for the tacks in the Tour.

The excuses from Sky are pathetic as well. Almost as bad as Valverde's.

OK then - but take it to its logical conclusion. What happens when someone gets a puncture? They stop, wait for the team car, get a new wheel and pace back to the peloton with help from other riders and team cars.

1) If the peloton are going flat out a couple of riders will never catch them
2) If it is purely about the racing, as in motor racing, then you will absolutely disqualify anyone from any team car assistance.

So, one puncture or any mechanical and you are out of the race; and what are the odds on that happening over 2000plus miles. You'd just end up with everyone riding on their own. Solution - put everyone on Schwalbe Marathon Plus and hub gears. Personally, that's not a solution I want. As many riders have said - It's not about the bike. Grand Prix motor racing is about the cars and drivers. The soft rules that let cyclists back into the race where appropriate are there because it makes it more interesting.

gabriel959 wrote:

Why is that? I only watched some of it because god oh god track cycling is dull.

That's because you don't understand it and I don't think you understand road racing either!

gabriel959

Rolf F wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run. Same for the tacks in the Tour.

The excuses from Sky are pathetic as well. Almost as bad as Valverde's.

OK then - but take it to its logical conclusion. What happens when someone gets a puncture? They stop, wait for the team car, get a new wheel and pace back to the peloton with help from other riders and team cars.

1) If the peloton are going flat out a couple of riders will never catch them
2) If it is purely about the racing, as in motor racing, then you will absolutely disqualify anyone from any team car assistance.

So, one puncture or any mechanical and you are out of the race; and what are the odds on that happening over 2000plus miles. You'd just end up with everyone riding on their own. Solution - put everyone on Schwalbe Marathon Plus and hub gears. Personally, that's not a solution I want. As many riders have said - It's not about the bike. Grand Prix motor racing is about the cars and drivers. The soft rules that let cyclists back into the race where appropriate are there because it makes it more interesting.

gabriel959 wrote:

Why is that? I only watched some of it because god oh god track cycling is dull.

That's because you don't understand it and I don't think you understand road racing either!

I am being logical, it is you who aren't with a silly story about Marathon Plus and hub gears.

Racing is not only about going fast, although many here seem to think it is. These things happen all the time, punctures, crashes, they can happen to anyone at any moment. I don't think a rider should stop the race just because someone has crashed, or has had a puncture because some idiot spread tacks on the road. What happens in an individual TT if the leader has a puncture, should everyone stop? Or if a moose crosses the road and crashes against the leader? Is it ok to attack during a feeding zone? Who decides? Best thing is to race it and don't wait. I think Sky did the right thing but put a lame excuse. Car's shouldn't help riders get back to the peloton, it is illegal. If other riders want to help that is their choice, but if they are from the same team, why not? Most of the time these incidents happen in areas were no-one is going that fast so it isn't as difficult to get back on, what happened yesterday it is unfortunate (or fortunate depends how you feel about ValvPiti) but it happens, the race shouldn't stop though.

Most ex-pros say similar things anyway, so I would say it is you the one who doesn't understand a thing about bicycle racing.

Regarding track cycling, I find it dull - it doesn't mean it has to be dull for everyone though.

gabriel959

Rolf F wrote:

Otherwise - Contador looking rather less self assured than before but understandable, lots of mountains which is a relief as, lets be honest, away from the mountains Spain is mostly a bit of an ugly barren dump compared to France and a truly terrible lifeless commentary (he'd make Olympic womens mud wrestling less interesting to watch than a test card - he's like the opposite of a V1 rocket; you're grateful when the drone stops). But at least if you lose a day, you've only got an extra hour rather than four to watch

Menuda sarta de gilipolleces by the way.

rolf_f

gabriel959 wrote:

I am being logical, it is you who aren't with a silly story about Marathon Plus and hub gears.

Racing is not only about going fast, although many here seem to think it is. These things happen all the time, punctures, crashes, they can happen to anyone at any moment. I don't think a rider should stop the race just because someone has crashed, or has had a puncture because some idiot spread tacks on the road. What happens in an individual TT if the leader has a puncture, should everyone stop? Or if a moose crosses the road and crashes against the leader? Is it ok to attack during a feeding zone? Who decides? Best thing is to race it and don't wait. I think Sky did the right thing but put a lame excuse. Car's shouldn't help riders get back to the peloton, it is illegal. If other riders want to help that is their choice, but if they are from the same team, why not? Most of the time these incidents happen in areas were no-one is going that fast so it isn't as difficult to get back on, what happened yesterday it is unfortunate (or fortunate depends how you feel about ValvPiti) but it happens, the race shouldn't stop though.

Most ex-pros say similar things anyway, so I would say it is you the one who doesn't understand a thing about bicycle racing.

Regarding track cycling, I find it dull - it doesn't mean it has to be dull for everyone though.

Look at it this way. Imagine a pan flat stage race. No breakaways because everyone is racing all the time (and a breakaway is only going to escape the peloton if it is allowed to - ie if the peloton chooses not to race it). Ultimately then, the outcome is going to be solely down to the last couple of kilometers or so. None of the preceding 150 miles or whatever has contributed to the race whatsoever. On that basis, you might as well not even bother with the rest of the stage but, in reality, the allowance of a breakaway, the possibility it won't get caught and the contrivances of the sprint points keep the interest up. But, as far as the peloton is concerned, they are just cruising and for most of them at no point does this change. In this stage, intermediate sprints aside, the only people who will be racing at all are the sprinters and their lead outs. Any of those could puncture at any point and if the peloton was going flat out (ie racing) they would therefore be out of that stage. It would be proper racing but it would be pretty boring. We don't want F1 do we?

And please translate the Spanish as my work browser is too out of date to work any translators

I don't think the Marathon comment is that silly though. Ultimately, if a puncture takes you out of the race then you'll have to determine what tyres guarantee you no punctures. It wouldn't be Marathons as they are a bit ridiculous but they would be a lot heavier than the ones currently used. The hub gears comment was very silly!

gabriel959

you know what it said on that spanish bit - it wouldn't let me put it here, it would star it out But the point remains.

I can see your point but I think you make this analogy, which I don't - going flat out = racing

I think if you fall and they aren't going fast you can consider yourself lucky that you will not spend a lot of energy catching up.

Gizmo_

Getting to the finish line first = racing.

Getting to the finish line in the shortest possible time = time trial.

Getting to the finish line at all: riding.

vermin

I didn't expect that.

rick_chasey

vermin wrote:

I didn't expect that.

All bets are still off till week 3 I suspect....

gabriel959

I personally thought his attacks on day 3 were a sign of desperation. His cramp excuses sounded like poor ones to me as well. I reckon he will lose some more time on the TT as well.

The african boy with the incurable illness should run away with this, unless J.Rod is on the same magic potion as team sky.

Gizmo_

gabriel959 wrote:

I personally thought his attacks on day 3 were a sign of desperation. His cramp excuses sounded like poor ones to me as well. I reckon he will lose some more time on the TT as well.

The african boy with the incurable illness should run away with this, unless J.Rod is on the same magic potion as team sky.

I hope he doesn't run anywhere. Have you seen the size of his legs? I've seen fatter pondskaters.

daviesee

Thread resurrection.

I take it now that Froome is burst, nobody is interested?

Personally, I think it is a great race as I watch it for the racing, not as a fan boy.

rolf_f

daviesee wrote:

Thread resurrection.

I take it now that Froome is burst, nobody is interested?

Personally, I think it is a great race as I watch it for the racing, not as a fan boy.

I'm still enjoying it. Scenery much improved and Contadors desperate (but hopefully hopeless) attempts to destroy Rodriguez are fun to watch.

DonDaddyD

Rolf F wrote:

Scenery much improved and Contadors desperate (but hopefully hopeless) attempts to destroy Rodriguez are fun to watch.

I love the way Spain looks. Always have.

Contador and Rodriguez's is turning out to be a right proper personal battle. Love it. Brilliant race.

vermin

Absolutely glued to it. The Purito and Berty show is making for fabulous entertainment. Froome has been incredible, considering the season he has already had.

bigmat

Good racing, should come with a health warning though (possibly).

rolf_f

DonDaddyD wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Scenery much improved and Contadors desperate (but hopefully hopeless) attempts to destroy Rodriguez are fun to watch.

I love the way Spain looks. Always have.

It's the flat, dreary plains with the half dead looking vegetation that I don't like. I've only really experienced it in the southern half of Majorca but it's grim!

vermin

BigMat wrote:

health warning

Naturally (unnaturally), but I'll worry about that after I've enjoyed some spectacular bike racing.

gabriel959

BigMat wrote:

Good racing, should come with a health warning though (possibly).

It should always be the case, even when the British guy is winning.

jonny_trousers

Stage 16: absolutely epic! That's all.

daviesee

Hopefully Prudhomme is watching.
Basing next years TdF on the Vuelta may not help Brad to retain the title but the racing is much superior.

jonginge

OMG - not much work gonna be done in the next hour

vermin

JonGinge wrote:

OMG - not much work gonna be done in the next hour

Trudat. Super stuff.

tailwindhome

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

And if Sky end up being the Millwall of the peloton, who cares? Let battle commence.

Make sure you watch the stage highlights tonight.

*hums theme tune to Toy Story