La Vuelta

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited September 2012 in Commuting chat
So no thread on the Vuelta, why?

I've watched two days worth, today and yesterday, and there has been more memorable action than the entire Tour de France '12. It's like being taken back to 90s races with the insane acceleration, drama and story. Only we know that everyone is clean.

Excellent race so far.
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Comments

  • cookdn
    cookdn Posts: 410
    Contador certainly seems to have a lot to prove. He kept attacking on that last climb but nobody was letting him get away. Chris Froome seemed to have the measure of the situation and hung back. Shame the cameras missed him sneaking past Contador on the last bend to snatch third place. Looking forward to watching today's stage later when Mrs cookdn has gone to bed. There is a nasty looking climb to the finish.

    Best regards
    David
    Boardman CX Team
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Sky - In trouble.

    I know that it is a race and that their tactics were probably focussing on attacking at the crosswind section but when Valverde went down they should have slowed. I don't know who made the call but I think it was a mistake. They can't deny that they knew about the crash as there was a lot of spinning heads at the time and for the DS to claim that he didn't know is "unusual". That the Moviestar car actually went to the head of the race to explain what was going on totally negates any "I didn't know" arguments.
    Wiggins won a lot of friends by waiting on Evans, Froome may have lost a lot today.
    You need friends in the major tours, the Vuelta in particular, and Froome's Spanish contenders will make him pay. Just ask Robert Millar.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    /\ Know what you mean, but, it's Valverde, so balls to it, and I don't think Froome/Sky could expect any help in this race anyway.

    I think USPS were criticised for drilling it early in the '04 Tour when Mayo when down on the pave.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    cjcp wrote:
    /\ Know what you mean, but, it's Valverde, so balls to it, and I don't think Froome/Sky could expect any help in this race anyway.

    I think USPS were criticised for drilling it early in the '04 Tour when Mayo when down on the pave.

    Quite. Valverde is a c**t. Movistar have been attacking when other riders have crashed all season What goes around comes around - most other teams will have silently endorsed Sky's approach.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    Plus it looked like other teams, Katusa and BMC did their own bit of pushing on.

    Or at least Katusa weren't trying to slow the race. They may not have been pushing but a couple of their guys were at the front mixed in with the Sky guys.
    Whippet
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Movistar have precedence. It wasn't just sky anyway. By the end BMC and RSNT were both driving hard for no good reason other than to hurt Valve. too.

    Some riders have taken to Twitter saying that sky caused the crash. Not much criticism for riding hard to put it in the gutter though.
    _
  • SteppenHerring
    SteppenHerring Posts: 720
    Waiting for Evans on the TdF - that was clearly sabotage so the right thing to do. This? Not so much. They seem to be trying to claim Flecha caused the crash but I didn't see this on the footage - most of Sky seemed to be on the front. And as has already been said Katusha and BMC also pushed on.

    Not sure whether to take Valverde out of my fantasy team. If I did, that would show him.
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    Will Moviestar / can moviestar go to the officials to get Sky / Fletcha investigated for causing a crash.
    Whippet
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    BigMat wrote:
    Quite. Valverde is a c**t. Movistar have been attacking when other riders have crashed all season What goes around comes around - most other teams will have silently endorsed Sky's approach.
    I hadn't noticed that. I which case, fair enough.
    I noticed BMC coming to the front. Payback for Brad slowing the TdF?
    Moviestar claiming that Fletcha caused the accident was pure fantasy as far as I could see. On a par with the Sky DS claiming he and his riders didn't know Valverde was down. Equal on points there.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    daviesee wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    Quite. Valverde is a c**t. Movistar have been attacking when other riders have crashed all season What goes around comes around - most other teams will have silently endorsed Sky's approach.
    I hadn't noticed that. I which case, fair enough.
    I noticed BMC coming to the front. Payback for Brad slowing the TdF?
    Moviestar claiming that Fletcha caused the accident was pure fantasy as far as I could see. On a par with the Sky DS claiming he and his riders didn't know Valverde was down. Equal on points there.

    When Valverde won the Vuelta (when he should have been banned) he was helped when Evans crashed / punctured and
    various riders attacked. Payback for that? Maybe a bit far fetched as Evans not riding and that was when he was at Lotto, but fact is Piti / Movistar have previous and you reap what you sew.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Maybe the guy on itv4 is right, and all these unwritten laws need to be forgotten.

    Bottom line its a race and sometimes you need to race dirty, but within the rules, to win.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Maybe the guy on itv4 is right, and all these unwritten laws need to be forgotten.

    Bottom line its a race and sometimes you need to race dirty, but within the rules, to win.
    That too.
    I also like the sporting aspect of cycling. Like the honour system in golf. But it is racing.
    I have conflicting views, possibly like the riders so probably as well to scrap the "rules" but it would be a shame. Maybe :?
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • bushu
    bushu Posts: 711
    :evil: i would watch but it's on Sh'ITV!!
    1# Retro Road Revamp & 2# Charge Plug fixed & 3# XC Scott Scale50
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    bushu wrote:
    :evil: i would watch but it's on Sh'ITV!!
    :?: The highlights are pretty decent from what I've seen.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Someone crashes on an end of stage climb - do people stop? No they don't.

    If the crash had happened under normal conditions when the peloton was cruising then they should, and would have stopped. However, the cross winds meant it was race time and probably the only chance to split the peleton that day and maybe in the whole race outside of the mountains. Most of the time the peloton aren't really racing but they were at that point.

    If any crash can neutralise a cross wind attack, you'll end up with people accidentally crashing into soft bushes everytime they get caught napping.

    The TDF case with Wiggo was entirely different as it was quickly obvious that something wierd had happened. The honour thing is a good thing but it shouldn't get in the way of racing. Contador was right to drop Schleck, Wiggins was right not to drop Evans, Sky were right to drop Valverde.

    Otherwise - Contador looking rather less self assured than before but understandable, lots of mountains which is a relief as, lets be honest, away from the mountains Spain is mostly a bit of an ugly barren dump compared to France and a truly terrible lifeless commentary (he'd make Olympic womens mud wrestling less interesting to watch than a test card - he's like the opposite of a V1 rocket; you're grateful when the drone stops). But at least if you lose a day, you've only got an extra hour rather than four to watch :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    I've said it elsewhere - Contador will ride this like he did the Giro, after he was called up the day before whilst 'chilling on the beach.'
    _
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    If the crash had happened in the normal cruise then etiquette says you slow down and don't attack to allow the leader to recover. However, watching this on the V+ in slow-mo last night it was clear to me this crash occured AFTER Sky started their attack and as far as I could see was entirely the result of Valverde and friends bunching into the armco as they were caught napping and tried to get back to the front... Sky et al have nothing to apologise about IMHO, a racing incident at best... and even the commentators made the point that Movistar have form; do unto others as you would be done by, so to speak...
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    Got to say I'm really enjoying the Vuelta. Pretty exciting so far. Hammond was right on this crash and "unwritten rules" - there is too much guff spouted about "respect" and being gentlemanly. If you want gentlemanly stuff join tweed cylcling club and doff your flat cap to the ladies. It is a race ffs.
    Froome looked supremely unconcerned, which has made me rather warm to him.
    And if Sky end up being the Millwall of the peloton, who cares? Let battle commence.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    BelgianBeerGeek wrote:
    And if Sky end up being the Millwall of the peloton, who cares? Let battle commence.

    That stuff bites you back hard if you're not careful.

    I'd suggest the reason so many teams joined in the drive without good racing reasons was movistar this season have behaved badly when it comes to this kind of thing.

    What goes around comes around.
    _
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    BelgianBeerGeek wrote:
    Got to say I'm really enjoying the Vuelta. Pretty exciting so far. Hammond was right on this crash and "unwritten rules" - there is too much guff spouted about "respect" and being gentlemanly. If you want gentlemanly stuff join tweed cylcling club and doff your flat cap to the ladies. It is a race ffs.
    Froome looked supremely unconcerned, which has made me rather warm to him.
    And if Sky end up being the Millwall of the peloton, who cares? Let battle commence.

    Agree. Valverde lost any right to respect when he doped. As others have pointed out, Sky weren't alone. The Spanish are expected to gang up on Froome (although I don't think their egos will allow this), so Sky were dead right to take advantage. It would help if they all got their stories straight before giving interviews though!
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Agree re getting their stories straight. I'm hoping in time Froome will reveal himself to be a master of deadpan, rather than just incredibly bland. There is still time!
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    BigMat wrote:
    Agree re getting their stories straight. I'm hoping in time Froome will reveal himself to be a master of deadpan, rather than just incredibly bland. There is still time!

    I think he already is. Some of his TDF interviews would suggest so.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    BigMat wrote:
    Agree re getting their stories straight. I'm hoping in time Froome will reveal himself to be a master of deadpan, rather than just incredibly bland. There is still time!

    Give the chap a break - he's like Mohammed Ali in his prime compared to Edvald Boassen Hagen :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    http://gerard.cc/2012/08/22/grow-some-balls/
    _
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    FYI, most spanish ex-cyclists, quite a few fans and most of the TV reporters were saying crashing its part of a race. Personally, and I am Spanish, I don't think they should stop for mechanicals, crashes or anything. Ever.

    It is a race not a sunday club run.
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  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    gabriel959 wrote:
    FYI, most spanish ex-cyclists, quite a few fans and most of the TV reporters were saying crashing its part of a race. Personally, and I am Spanish, I don't think they should stop for mechanicals, crashes or anything. Ever.

    It is a race not a sunday club run.

    But by that logic then they should be racing all the time. And most of the time the peloton isn't racing.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    I can understand and think it was a nice gesture in the TDF for after the tacks to slow the race down,

    But equally crashes are just part of road racing, that close that fast ay some point someone will touch/mess up etc.

    so far found it fairly dull but see if it grows on me!
  • Gizmo_
    Gizmo_ Posts: 558
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    http://gerard.cc/2012/08/22/grow-some-balls/
    I like that.

    Twice now Sky have claimed "confusion" for a contentious event involving Froome. Dear me, that boy must be more confused than the Coventry ring road.

    If they simply came out and said "Look. It's a race. We didn't knock him off his own bike. To finish first, first you must keep it shiny side up until the finish line (external influences notwithstanding). And it's Valverde. Stuff him." I'd have even more respect for them.
    Scott Sportster P45 2008 | Cannondale CAAD8 Tiagra 2012
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Rolf F wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    FYI, most spanish ex-cyclists, quite a few fans and most of the TV reporters were saying crashing its part of a race. Personally, and I am Spanish, I don't think they should stop for mechanicals, crashes or anything. Ever.

    It is a race not a sunday club run.

    But by that logic then they should be racing all the time. And most of the time the peloton isn't racing.

    They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run. Same for the tacks in the Tour.

    The excuses from Sky are pathetic as well. Almost as bad as Valverde's.
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  • Gizmo_
    Gizmo_ Posts: 558
    gabriel959 wrote:

    They should be if they aren't. I repeat it is a race, not a cyclo-sportive, not a sunday club run. Same for the tacks in the Tour.

    The excuses from Sky are pathetic as well. Almost as bad as Valverde's.
    You must have hated watching the track sprinting at the Olympics. ;)
    Scott Sportster P45 2008 | Cannondale CAAD8 Tiagra 2012

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