The demise of Women's cycling

Richmond Racer

GSVBagpuss wrote:

Dragging this back on topic

Two female (and medal winning) cyclists on the Cycle Show tonight. And going back a page or so, someone suggesting running the womens TdF before the Men's would double the cost is nonsense. It's not free but the roads are already closed, the police and journalists are already there etc.

Team Sky are missing a trick; we had some pretty visible riders in the Olympic race (I thought Pooley was outstanding) and it would cost relatively little. Maybe Dave B just thinks its a step too far with trying to get the mens GTs next year, given he likes to get into all the details?

As Inky's said, SKY as sponsor have got to see what's in it for them, even for the tiny cost of 500k that's been bandied around for a pro womens team.

gsvbagpuss

Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

Pendleton was well known in the glossy mags my wife gets; Trott maybe? I gues she's staying track for a while though?

rick_chasey

GSVBagpuss wrote:

Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

Pendleton was well known in the glossy mags my wife gets; Trott maybe? I gues she's staying track for a while though?

Brits have a very good team and very good riders, more or less 2nd to Vos, but then again, she's the Eddy Merckx of women's cycling.

inkyfingers

GSVBagpuss wrote:

Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

Yes.

Armitstead is growing into a very serious one dayer/sprinter.

Pooley is one of the best climbers in the world.

Cooke was the number one female rider in the world, and is still only 29.

There is one thing stopping us dominating womens road racing and that is Marianne Vos.

davidof

greasedscotsman wrote:

What would you do to try and avoid this sort of thing happening? Some ideas on Cyclingnews, are these good or bad?

Get rid of Pat McQuaid would be a start. He's been in the job long past his sell by date.

This year I watched a lot of women's races on TV. Tour of Flanders, Trophee Afredo Binda, Ghent, Giro Donne. There is a lack of strength in depth in the women's peleton but the top 15-20 riders are very good. Given a choice between watching Sky blocking all day on the front and admiring riders like Carol Anne Kanuel, Marion Rousse, Emily Collins, Joëlle Numainville, Julie Krasniak and of course our own Lizzie and Emma etc. I'd sooner be following this:

http://bikechicks.net/2012/01/13/joelle-en-route-for-london/

There was a fantastic 4th stage (I think) in the Donne where Vos chases down a break with Pooley on a mountain stage. Reminded me a bit of men's racing back in the 70s. Not as fast as now but some exciting breaks and chases.

I wonder whether Pooley will race next year given all this uncertainty. Lizzie will be picked up, for sure but Emma has her doctorate to finish and that may take precedence. It would be a shame if she doesn't get the backing she needs at this stage in her career. These kind of issues have stunted Nicole Cooke's career.

knedlicky

inkyfingers wrote:

GSVBagpuss wrote:

Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

Yes.

I’d also answer Bagpuss's question with 'yes', imo Pooley. She's already won the Grande Boucle Féminine, and twice come close to winning the Giro Donne, as well as having won smaller tours and been the TT World Champion.
But that Bagpuss asked the question in the first place shows how newsworthy her achievements were judged by the media, and I'm not sure that will ever change much (unless perhaps you're called Trott).

knedlicky

Rick Chasey wrote:

Brits have a very good team and very good riders, more or less 2nd to Vos, but then again, she's the Eddy Merckx of women's cycling.

inkyfingers wrote:

GSVBagpuss wrote:

Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

There is one thing stopping us dominating womens road racing and that is Marianne Vos.

I think you, Rick and Inky, overrate the Brit girls (and don’t give due credit to the other Dutch girls).
In the World Cup rankings, best-placed Brit is Pooley, but only in 22nd place. Laws, Martin, Trott, Roe, Cooke and Armitstead (in that order) are to be found between 42nd and 101st. Other names, e.g. Houvenaghel, Bailey, Harris, Garner, etc are completely missing. The Dutch have 6 in the top 19.

Admittedly, if the Brits rarely enter the World Cup races (which is true for some) then they don’t pick up points (Trott only did the World Cup TTT), but even if you look at non-World Cup events, you don’t find Brits on the podium that often.
This year Pooley has had 4 podium placings (plus two GC podiums), Laws also 4 podiums, Bailey and Armitstead each 2 podiums, and Houvenaghel 1 podium. In total that's not a lot compared to the Dutch and Americans, and Laws, Houvenaghel and Bailey won’t be there much longer (all 35-40 years old), and (like davidof mentions above) maybe Pooley also not.
Roe and Garner may be great prospects, but that was believed of Martin a couple of years ago. I’d say there’s still a way to go before the Brit girls can match the Dutch, Americans, and some other nations.

frenchfighter

Good comments from Pooley

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12792 ... cling.aspx

She says in there about Sky and a woman's team. They should be totally ashamed of themveselves that they don't have one and it should be a priority to set it up. That is if they care about cycling and not about advertising...I'd veer on the later.

mroli

To be fair FF - Sky do care about cycling - they have a very good "in house" club, lots of perks, and are big advocates of cycling to work and leisure cycling. Am not a big fan of the brand, but to accuse them of not caring about cycling is v wide of the mark imho

frenchfighter

Yeah a little harsh I know. I have no idea about the club you refer to - what is it?

inkyfingers

frenchfighter wrote:

Good comments from Pooley

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12792 ... cling.aspx

She says in there about Sky and a woman's team. They should be totally ashamed of themveselves that they don't have one and it should be a priority to set it up. That is if they care about cycling and not about advertising...I'd veer on the later.

I would also like to see Sky set up a women's team, but I think it's unfair to single them out for not having done so. They have done more women's cycling than most sponsors, having been sponsoring mens and women's teams on the track for some years now.

As i've said before, it's not realistic to expect sponsors to just queue up to pour money into loss-making ventures. The whole system needs looking at to try and make women's cycling more attractive to sponsors and fans, until that happens sponsors won't be interested.

inkyfingers

Deleted

dsoutar

FF might have been a little harsh but it's a very valid point. They should be looking to widen the base of all cycling and surely BC should be leaning on them (or at least pointing them in the right direction) regarding this.

There are more women cycling but it's only noticeable because a few years ago there were hardly any. There's momentum there and it should be built on. Clubs too should be looking to capitalise on this

Richmond Racer

Emma P wants Sky to set up a womens team, but funnily enough Lizzie Armitstead doesnt, according to a couple of interviews she's given since her interviews straight after the Lympix. Seems to be some personal issue behind this, maybe times when she's been at odds with BC/GB.

oneof1982

Worth noting that Britain has Junior World and European Road Race Champion Lucy Garner.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gbcycl ... champion-0

frenchfighter

Inky, SKY have ridiculous funds so yes, the onus is on them a lot more than other sponsors. But also yes, the system needs to be improved. Tv coverage would be a good start.

inkyfingers

frenchfighter wrote:

Inky, SKY have ridiculous funds so yes, the onus is on them a lot more than other sponsors. But also yes, the system needs to be improved. Tv coverage would be a good start.

Frenchie, I seem to remember you work in the city so i'd have thought you'd appreciate that companies have to answer to their shareholders as to how they allocate their funds. Sky obviously feel that sponsoring a mens team gives them a benefit (whether it be a short term economic one or a long term brand building one, or maybe both). Considering how much Sky have invested in cycling at all levels except for women's road racing they obviously feel like it's a dead duck at the moment.

Just expecting people to give money away just because they have a lot is the sort of thing you'd hear in a student politics discussion.

There is a danger that by attacking sponsors for what they are not doing (when they are clearly doing some good things) risks making them think twice about investing in the sport in future. I'm not a particular fan of Sky as a company, but without them and a few other sponsors who have shown a similar long term commitment to the sport, cycling would be in even more trouble than it's already in.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Frenchie, I seem to remember you work in the city so i'd have thought you'd appreciate that companies have to answer to their shareholders as to how they allocate their funds. Sky obviously feel that sponsoring a mens team gives them a benefit (whether it be a short term economic one or a long term brand building one, or maybe both). Considering how much Sky have invested in cycling at all levels except for women's road racing they obviously feel like it's a dead duck at the moment.
.

He's a prop trader. They don't think about anything other than whether they're up or down and by how much.

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

Yeah a little harsh I know. I have no idea about the club you refer to - what is it?

People who work there, at all levels, get generous discounts on clothing, bikes and equipment. I live about 30 miles from the call centre in Irvine and it's quite usual to see groups of folks clad head to toe in Sky gear on Pinarellos.

Also, there were a group of about 15 doing the Flanders sportive when I was there last year, they said the company had paid their entries and contributed to the minibus to get them over there.

Daz555

I see the track trio of King, Rowsell and Trott are in the RR shortlist. What are the odds of them being involved?

Richmond Racer

Only if GB want a revolt on their hands from Armitstead, Pooley, Cooke and co, if even just 1 of the King-Rowsell-Trott trio were to be selected for the final team and take the place of an experienced roadie

Daz555

Richmond Racer wrote:

Only if GB want a revolt on their hands from Armitstead, Pooley, Cooke and co, if even just 1 of the King-Rowsell-Trott trio were to be selected for the final team and take the place of an experienced roadie

Maybe. I think Trott will be awesome on the road when/if she makes the moved but yeah - probably best to blood them in some slightly less high-profile events!

inkyfingers

How many places do Team GB have in the Women's RR?

Daz555

inkyfingers wrote:

How many places do Team GB have in the Women's RR?

Elite Women – Road Race (7 to start)
Lizzie Armitstead
Hannah Barnes
Katie Colclough
Nicole Cooke
Catherine Hare
Nikki Harris
Dani King
Sharon Laws
Emma Pooley
Joanna Rowsell
Emma Trott
Laura Trott

Elite Women – Time Trial (2 to start)
Wendy Houvenaghel
Sharon Laws
Emma Pooley
Julia Shaw

Richmond Racer

7 places.

Out of:

Lizzie Armitstead
Hannah Barnes
Katie Colclough
Nicole Cooke
Catherine Hare
Nikki Harris
Dani King
Sharon Laws
Emma Pooley
Joanna Rowsell
Emma Trott
Laura Trott

You'd have thought the first 6 would pick themselves:

Lizzie Armitstead
Hannah Barnes
Katie Colclough
Nicole Cooke
Sharon Laws
Emma Pooley

Then probably Emma Trott. Also Nikki Harris has upped the amount of road racing she's been doing this season. Sarah Storey would have been a decent bet given how she's been racing in the UK this year, but I guess the Paralympics are just too close to the Worlds.

7 is probably a lot of places for GB to fill for a Worlds team given that we dont actually have a lot of women competing at the top level, as another poster's noted.

frenchfighter

disgruntledgoat wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Yeah a little harsh I know. I have no idea about the club you refer to - what is it?

People who work there, at all levels, get generous discounts on clothing, bikes and equipment. I live about 30 miles from the call centre in Irvine and it's quite usual to see groups of folks clad head to toe in Sky gear on Pinarellos.

Also, there were a group of about 15 doing the Flanders sportive when I was there last year, they said the company had paid their entries and contributed to the minibus to get them over there.

Got it. Perks for employees...thought this was something good for members of the public.

knedlicky

Richmond Racer wrote:

7 places.
Out of:

Lizzie Armitstead
Hannah Barnes
Katie Colclough
Nicole Cooke
Catherine Hare
Nikki Harris
Dani King
Sharon Laws
Emma Pooley
Joanna Rowsell
Emma Trott
Laura Trott

You'd have thought the first 6 would pick themselves:

Lizzie Armitstead
Hannah Barnes
Katie Colclough
Nicole Cooke
Sharon Laws
Emma Pooley

Then probably Emma Trott.

Based on performances this season, Sharon Laws should be an automatic choice in the RR team, together with Pooley.
To them, I’d add the top 5 in the list above (so Hare instead of your suggestion, Emma Trott).

Richmond Racer

Sure, I wasnt very clear - I meant 6 of the 7 names would pick themselves, rather than the first 6 names in the list pasted from the BC website.

ocdupalais

Misleading thread title.
We're in a genesis phase for the appreciation of women's cycling in this country; not the the demise... I just think we're in that bit where all companies/organisations who could make a difference are stood around shrugging their shoulders saying "we're looking to action a move forward in this space [what is it? Women's cycling? Oh yeah]... but until our stakeholders see some low-hanging fruit, our hands are tied on this one, etc..."

It was the same with environmental issues: 10/15 years ago you were pinko/green anti-progress hippy if you voiced concerns about untenable industrial or social practices in terms of pollution or ecological damage - most companies were too busy with their heads in the trough. Now it's on pretty much every boardroom agenda.

It's just a bloody shame that in the meantime, there are going to be many women who drift away from racing because the rewards are so meagre.

Dorset_Boy

If he's a trader, surely Frenchie could redirect some of his bonus into sponsoring a women's team.....

I do think there is a vicious circle in play, and unless the UCI change their stance, things will remain difficult for the women. It needs the UCI to provide some sort of incentive for the pro-tour teams to run a ladies team, as well as including some of the women's races in the TV packages sold to broadcasters, or give the TV rights away free for a period to help attract sponsors.

All in all, it needs kick starting, and I'd have thought the UCI, in conjunction with some of the pro-tour teams, are the ones to do this.