The demise of Women's cycling

greasedscotsman

Wheelspinner wrote:

Possibly a silly question, but since the Donne was on at the same time as the TdF, would you have watched it *instead* of Le Tour, or been happy with watching it later on?

If I'm honest, I'd watch the Tour rather than the Donne, if they were both being shown live. But then why not put the Donne at a time when it's not trying to compete with something like the Tour? How about putting it back a few weeks so it's between the Tour and the Vuelta? I did enjoy watch the Eneco Tour and San Sebastian, but I'd be quite happy to watch the Donne instead.

esspeebee

I'd rather watch the Donne than the Eneco Tour. I can't imagine I'm the only one, either.

oldwelshman

mroli wrote:

@OfftheBackAdam - there was plenty of interest during the Olympic Women's Road Race. The road where I was was mobbed and it was horrible weather.

Agree with @Rozzer - if the TV Channels put women's sports on, people would watch them - they watch women's tennis, they watch women's golf. I think it is a real shame that some products aimed solely at women would rather sponsor real tat, or put their money into "worthless" advertising than promoting professional sport.

@TheBigBean - the problem with squash is that (like hockey) it does not translate well to the small screen. The ball is too small, moves too fast and is hard to pick up. The comparison there is to tennis and football where the ball is bigger, easier to pick up and the dimensions of the court/field are easier to show on tv.

I think pretty much everyone agreed that the women's road race was more exciting than the men's - I just wish the UCI would do something to encourage women's racing.

The fact is that this was the olympics and had nothing to do with the fact it was a ldaies cycle race, people just wanted to be part of olympic games, it was same with the marathon.
The sad fact is that fewer general public are interested in watching cycling live.
30 years ago city centres were packed with thousands watching the kellogs series crits. Herne hill and Leicester had large crowds for track events and the milk race crowds were huge.
These days there are so many other distractions. In those days you only have bbc1/2 and ITV so people got off their arses more. Kids mostly just want to hang around and do Fxxk all and play games on playstation lol

Jez mon

Every time I've been to see the ToB the crowds have been fairly sizeable.

The thing about the UCI promoting more women's racing is, at times I kind of think that the UCI has bigger problems than the lack of a well established women's sport.

If TV rights to cycling were organized a bit more aggressively, then maybe we could see some progress. I.e. If you're going to show the tour, you have to show some other races (including some women's racing). But this is a balancing act...if the TV companies turn away, then you're a bit f***ed!

dave25

Womens sports are never given the same coverage as mens. Do you really think that if the tv bigwigs were going to start showing more womens sports they would start with cycling? Of course they wouldnt. Mens cycling barely gets a look in , so why would womens cycling even get a chance?
Surely if we are looking for an equal footing, its the likes of football, cricket, rubgy that at least have half a chance that we should be pushing, to open up that acceptability of female sport.

greasedscotsman

dave25 wrote:

Surely if we are looking for an equal footing, its the likes of football, cricket, rubgy that at least have half a chance that we should be pushing, to open up that acceptability of female sport.

Nope, I don't care about an equal footing. I'm not interested in watching football, cricket or rugby of any sort. Makes no difference to me if men or women are playing. Anyway, the original question was how to stop the demise of teams such as the AA sports drinks squad, post Olympics. My suggestion is to stick with the same volume of cycling that's currently shown, but loose the races, such as the Tour of Turkey or the Eneco Tour in favour of the major women's races.

Or do we just accept that there's is nothing that can be done and that's the way it is?

mrushton

It needs to generate income for sponsors. ITV4 showed the TdF and this year was pulling in 1 million viewers+ per night - major numbers for a minority channel. For some reason a lot of women don't find womens sport as interesting as mens (a discussion on Mumsnet) so you are starting afresh. Womens golf and even tennis don't pull in the same numbers as mens games - but broadcasting is aimed at male viewers - look at the commercials. If a womwn referee makes a decision she is derided by male broadcasters as not being up to the job.

Cakegirl

OCduP, thank you! Your comments give me some hope!
Bunch riding, staying on wheels and twisty-turny: all hopefully not too bad as club history, few fondos (insane bunches at start); and I'm really pretty teeny so you can usually find me on the leeward side underneath somebody's chainstay.
Well done and best of luck to your other half for doing so well on the national scene, too!

ddraver

knedlicky wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Brian Moore (of all people) made a good tweet about this along the lines of there are 8 monthly magazines for women with a readership of 20 million (or 20 mags with 8 million..?) Why not start there?

Stuff

Sorry, removed for space

I know what you mean but even the FHM's and maxim's etc, have interviews and articles.on sport. There is no reason that VickyP, Jess Ennis, Laura Robson etc couldn't have articles in Cosmo or Glamour, or Heat but the won't. Theyll have pictures of Kerry Katona without any make up on or how to get that Summer look.

I'm afraid I do think that if we re going to improve the standing if women's sport then we need to get women watching. I have some vocal friends on face book that come Olympics or SPOTY, will whinge about the disparity between men's and women's sport, but in reality, they could nt name or recognise any female sports.stars apart from the Ennis's and the Adlingtons. However ask them who Jennifer Aniston is dating and they'd be all over it. Ask them who is the captain of the England women's football or rugby team is and they'd have no idea...

Personally I don't have time to watch more sport, women's or not, after I ve kept up with the cycling and rugby. So you re asking me (sort of) to watch LESS of those in favour in women's races.

stanislav

Two page spread on Lizzie armitstead ,olympic silver medalist and one of the leading riders in the womens peloton, In The Mail On Sunday magazine.
If ianf72 and the other Mail haters on the forum can put that to one side its not a bad article.But the main point is it puts womens road cycling in the spotlight on a national platform,which is surely a good thing.This will hopefully raise awareness and the sport could benefit in the long term, inspiring more people onto their bikes and more sponsorship ect.

rick_chasey

greasedscotsman wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

For one day races like the Tour of Flanders and Amstel gold which have the sportive equivalent the day before or after, I can't see a good reason why they don't start the women's race say an hour or two before the sportive starts, and televise it.

I don't really understand why we can't get coverage of something like the Flanders women's race as it's currently run. Not sure how much earlier it's run than the men's race, something like 2-3 hours, so why not show that and then switch to the men's race. It's not like there's alot happening in the men's race that far from the finish.

Because monkeys like me would moan that I'm not seeing all of the main event.

But yes, if they really want improve it ,that's what they should do.

It's tougher in the traditional nations (especially the more Catholic ones ), since, rather like football over here, it's always been a men's thing.

In nations like the UK where cycling is a novelty, people will be more receptive to see women's racing, especially since the majority have only seen cycling when it's been on an even keel (so the Worlds and olympic style track cycling).

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

Because monkeys like me would moan that I'm not seeing all of the main event.

Oh come on Rick, it's not like we're talking about cutting short the coverage of something important. It's only the Flanders I'm talking about, not Roubaix!

But on a slightly different point, would be nice to see Team Sky start up a women's team, picking up some of the riders from AA Drinks. Small change for a team like them!

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

(especially the more Catholic ones )

Are you sure you the Nazis didn't have something to do with it?

inkyfingers

greasedscotsman wrote:

But on a slightly different point, would be nice to see Team Sky start up a women's team, picking up some of the riders from AA Drinks. Small change for a team like them!

I was slightly surprised that there wasn't a women's team from the off, considering that Sky is so tied in to British Cycling. Sky are a comercial outift though, the fact that there isn't a women's team (and the fact that other women's teams keep folding) would suggest that the economics simply don't stack up.

I think now could be a good time for Sky to step in and start one though, would be a good PR move for them if nothing else. Would confuse some of the Twitterati though...they might have to remove their blinkers.

What's the deal with the TV rights for women's races? Wonder if Sky could start showing some of them? Problem is I guess existing Sky customers aren't their target market!

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

But on a slightly different point, would be nice to see Team Sky start up a women's team, picking up some of the riders from AA Drinks. Small change for a team like them!

I was slightly surprised that there wasn't a women's team from the off, considering that Sky is so tied in to British Cycling. Sky are a comercial outift though, the fact that there isn't a women's team (and the fact that other women's teams keep folding) would suggest that the economics simply don't stack up.

I think now could be a good time for Sky to step in and start one though, would be a good PR move for them if nothing else. Would confuse some of the Twitterati though...they might have to remove their blinkers.

What's the deal with the TV rights for women's races? Wonder if Sky could start showing some of them? Problem is I guess existing Sky customers aren't their target market!

Cycling for sky is pocket change.

A women's team even more so.

Italy is one of the main target markets isn't it?

greasedscotsman

inkyfingers wrote:

Sky are a comercial outift though, the fact that there isn't a women's team (and the fact that other women's teams keep folding) would suggest that the economics simply don't stack up.

You could be right. A team like Specialized Lululemon makes alot of sense for Specialized to be involved with as they want to sell bikes to women. Just seems a shame to me that you have riders like Armitstead and Pooley without a ride for next year. Come on Sky, you know it makes sense!

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

But on a slightly different point, would be nice to see Team Sky start up a women's team, picking up some of the riders from AA Drinks. Small change for a team like them!

I was slightly surprised that there wasn't a women's team from the off, considering that Sky is so tied in to British Cycling. Sky are a comercial outift though, the fact that there isn't a women's team (and the fact that other women's teams keep folding) would suggest that the economics simply don't stack up.

I think now could be a good time for Sky to step in and start one though, would be a good PR move for them if nothing else. Would confuse some of the Twitterati though...they might have to remove their blinkers.

What's the deal with the TV rights for women's races? Wonder if Sky could start showing some of them? Problem is I guess existing Sky customers aren't their target market!

Cycling for sky is pocket change.

A women's team even more so.

Italy is one of the main target markets isn't it?

You're right about the Italian market, that could make it worthwhile on it's own. Italy seems to have a healthier women's cycling scene than most as well.

As for it being pocket change, no company (however big) likes to see money being invested without return. At some point, somebody in Sky would have to justify that spend to the the board.

squired

One could argue that the UK has missed a trick. Only last week it was announced that there will be a "cycling weekend" next year in London, with a pro race as part of it. Unless I'm mistaken there was no mention of a race for female pro riders as part of the festivities.

Running a female race on the same course before the men might be difficult if the men are doing a loop similar to the Olympics, but I'm sure they could still manage something.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

But on a slightly different point, would be nice to see Team Sky start up a women's team, picking up some of the riders from AA Drinks. Small change for a team like them!

I was slightly surprised that there wasn't a women's team from the off, considering that Sky is so tied in to British Cycling. Sky are a comercial outift though, the fact that there isn't a women's team (and the fact that other women's teams keep folding) would suggest that the economics simply don't stack up.

I think now could be a good time for Sky to step in and start one though, would be a good PR move for them if nothing else. Would confuse some of the Twitterati though...they might have to remove their blinkers.

What's the deal with the TV rights for women's races? Wonder if Sky could start showing some of them? Problem is I guess existing Sky customers aren't their target market!

Cycling for sky is pocket change.

A women's team even more so.

Italy is one of the main target markets isn't it?

You're right about the Italian market, that could make it worthwhile on it's own. Italy seems to have a healthier women's cycling scene than most as well.

As for it being pocket change, no company (however big) likes to see money being invested without return. At some point, somebody in Sky would have to justify that spend to the the board.

I don't think 'sky procycling' is even mentioned as its own entity in their final financial report. It's just rolled into advertising.

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

But on a slightly different point, would be nice to see Team Sky start up a women's team, picking up some of the riders from AA Drinks. Small change for a team like them!

I was slightly surprised that there wasn't a women's team from the off, considering that Sky is so tied in to British Cycling. Sky are a comercial outift though, the fact that there isn't a women's team (and the fact that other women's teams keep folding) would suggest that the economics simply don't stack up.

I think now could be a good time for Sky to step in and start one though, would be a good PR move for them if nothing else. Would confuse some of the Twitterati though...they might have to remove their blinkers.

What's the deal with the TV rights for women's races? Wonder if Sky could start showing some of them? Problem is I guess existing Sky customers aren't their target market!

Cycling for sky is pocket change.

A women's team even more so.

Italy is one of the main target markets isn't it?

You're right about the Italian market, that could make it worthwhile on it's own. Italy seems to have a healthier women's cycling scene than most as well.

As for it being pocket change, no company (however big) likes to see money being invested without return. At some point, somebody in Sky would have to justify that spend to the the board.

I don't think 'sky procycling' is even mentioned as its own entity in their final financial report. It's just rolled into advertising.

That may be so, but somebody, somewhere will have to justify it to their boss.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

That may be so, but somebody, somewhere will have to justify it to their boss.

For sure, but you see what I'm getting at.

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

That may be so, but somebody, somewhere will have to justify it to their boss.

For sure, but you see what I'm getting at.

Of course.

Some people expecting companies to do things for no return are in cuckoo land though. I work with a lot of charities and am always getting asked to do stuff for free "because we're a charity", I almost always refuse unless I think it might get me some more business in the future. It's a slippery slope, do it free this year and they'll expect it free next year. I still have to pay my staff and the mortgage on my 6 bed mansion in the Cotswolds. Sky and Inkyfingers PLC are not so different really

greasedscotsman

I take it Inky PLC don't want to sponsor a team then?

inkyfingers

greasedscotsman wrote:

I take it Inky PLC don't want to sponsor a team then?

No. Though we are not totally uncharitable, a couple of years ago I bought my staff some ice creams on a hot day.

If I spend much more time chewing the fat on here today Inkyfingers PLC might be putting out a profit warning.

greasedscotsman

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

I take it Inky PLC don't want to sponsor a team then?

No. Though we are not totally uncharitable, a couple of years ago I bought my staff some ice creams on a hot day.

If I spend much more time chewing the fat on here today Inkyfingers PLC might be putting out a profit warning.

Wow, that sounds the place to work! You don't have any vacancies, do you? Oh wait, don't tell me, you wouldn't give me a job as I spend far too much time on here when I should be working...

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

I take it Inky PLC don't want to sponsor a team then?

No. Though we are not totally uncharitable, a couple of years ago I bought my staff some ice creams on a hot day.

If I spend much more time chewing the fat on here today Inkyfingers PLC might be putting out a profit warning.

Gisajob.

inkyfingers

greasedscotsman wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

I take it Inky PLC don't want to sponsor a team then?

No. Though we are not totally uncharitable, a couple of years ago I bought my staff some ice creams on a hot day.

If I spend much more time chewing the fat on here today Inkyfingers PLC might be putting out a profit warning.

Wow, that sounds the place to work! You don't have any vacancies, do you? Oh wait, don't tell me, you wouldn't give me a job as I spend far too much time on here when I should be working...

Exactly.

As for you Rick, there's only room for one little Hitler in this company.

rick_chasey

Little Hitler?

Consider me offended. :P

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

Little Hitler?

Consider me offended. :P

Sorry, we'll just stick to Hitler. I know some people get touchy about their height.

gsvbagpuss

Dragging this back on topic

Two female (and medal winning) cyclists on the Cycle Show tonight. And going back a page or so, someone suggesting running the womens TdF before the Men's would double the cost is nonsense. It's not free but the roads are already closed, the police and journalists are already there etc.

Team Sky are missing a trick; we had some pretty visible riders in the Olympic race (I thought Pooley was outstanding) and it would cost relatively little. Maybe Dave B just thinks its a step too far with trying to get the mens GTs next year, given he likes to get into all the details?