The official TrainerRoad thread

shortcuts

duckson wrote:

Garmin ANT+ USB stick from ebay (new) for £20 inc P&P :- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390657948452? ... 371wt_1255

I looked at that prior to buying the Suunto. However was put off by the size of it and the write up makes it appear to be compatible with forerunner and swim. Doesn't mention GSC10 or HRM and that had me concerned.

duckson

It works with the GSC10 and HRM, check the model number it quotes.

shortcuts

duckson wrote:

It works with the GSC10 and HRM, check the model number it quotes.

Model number?
Not doubting you. Was just unsure myself and so took the advice of another on here and got the Suunto instead.
Is big though

grim168

I thought that but the garmin stick works fine. got mine from ebay too.

DaveL

Can you pay the subs via Visa debit card?

Cheers

Dave

antsmithmk

Can anyone help please....

I have an elite super chrono elesto gel turbo, which is supported. Obviously I need to sign up to the website, but how do I get my Garmin 500, my cadence and speed sensor and my heart rate strap to talk to my laptop? Almost all the literature that goes with the garmin ant+ usb stick suggests these are not compatible.

Please help me!!! What do I need to buy?!

cerv50

antsmithmk wrote:

Can anyone help please....

I have an elite super chrono elesto gel turbo, which is supported. Obviously I need to sign up to the website, but how do I get my Garmin 500, my cadence and speed sensor and my heart rate strap to talk to my laptop? Almost all the literature that goes with the garmin ant+ usb stick suggests these are not compatible.

Please help me!!! What do I need to buy?!

Sounds like you have everything I have and mine works fine. When you sign up to TR in "devices" you ask the garmin stick and TR to search for the HRM and speed/cadence sensor, tick the enable virtual power box and put a tick next to the trainer you use then off you go. I managed it and I'm useless with computers and technology lol

cerv50

Right then guys, I did a session last night that contained ILT's (individual leg training). Now this was hard work and I found stopping the chain klonking very difficult. I was also a bit concerned that maybe this would be too much for my recovering knee but all seems OK this morning which is a relief.

Has anyone else tried one leg pedalling and how did you find it? Also do you think its necessary as how often do you find yourself riding like this in the real world

neal1984

Got mine from Wiggle.
To pair with a Garmin GSC10 and Garmin HRM strap.
Suunto movestick mini.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/suunto-movestick-mini/
Hope that helps.

I ordered one of these last night (last one available) just on the basis it will be in a laptop and is less likely to get damaged. Rollers should be delivered today so a couple of light sessions to get used to them and then I'll sign up. With the rollers am I likely to be able to hit the power required in the inteval training or will I have to stick to HR based training?

stringybob

Hi
I've never used TR so I'm looking to start it for the winter. My current turbo is a Minoura RDA850 which is not in the supported list of turbo's. If i were to choose a similar one (there is an RDA80 in the list) would this still give me consistent (albeit not 100% accurate) FTP results which I could work with?

duckson

DaveL wrote:

Can you pay the subs via Visa debit card?

Cheers

Dave

Mine seemed to work no problem, it accepted it and money has gone out of my account.

DaveL

duckson wrote:

DaveL wrote:

Can you pay the subs via Visa debit card?

Cheers

Dave

Mine seemed to work no problem, it accepted it and money has gone out of my account.

Cheers Duck

ChrisSA

Jobs tonight as part of the TT plan. 4x6 mins. 3rd rep felt hard so overgeared it - down to last night's running. Legs feel much better now than before.

antsmithmk

Ordered an Ant+ stick. Will sign up next week

richiegwy

Is it possible to add a training plan to the likes of google calendar or garmin connect or something so you can schedule and track all workouts?

markp80

cerv50 wrote:

MarkP80 wrote:

cerv50 wrote:

Thanks guys, I will up the % a few notches to see how far I can go without failure lol Next session is tomorrow so will try a 1% increase first to see how much difference this makes.

Hi there,

I think you might also consider that Intermediate Base I is about building a base of fitness and as such the workouts aren't intended to take you to failure - they'r certainly not meant to be like the FTP tests. . As the plan is designed to have you working in this region, you might have a think about whether you really do want to increase the %FTP.

So, it doesn't surprise me that you aren't collapsing when you get off the bike at the end of the Base I rides,
Cheers,
MarkP

I know the base is for general fitness but surely that's a good enough place to start.

Let me enlighten you why I did it this way round. Back at the end of March I suffered a knee injury where I tore the joint between the muscle and its tendon on my left vastus mediallis, this followed many physio trips with and much hard work. So for me I thought the base plan would be a good idea as it would be a gentler way of getting into some hard training.

Surely its not a good idea to train to complete exhaustion to the point of collapsing or being unable to complete the TR session as it can not only put you back mentally but also there is a greater risk of injury or failing a training plan? I have a goal for 2014 and wanted to get a head start and work my way through the plans that TR have kindly set up to achieve it.

Sorry, haven't had chance to reply to your post before now.
Anyway, my apologies, as I think I may have had my wires crossed. I thought you were complaining that
1) the Base I rides were too easy because you weren't exhausted at the end of them,
2) hence you thought your FTP was set too low,
3) so, wanted to manually increase the difficulty level.
My point was simply that the Base I rides aren't designed to have you exhausted when you finish them (they're still an excellent workout though), so it may not have been necessary for you to make any changes to FTP (or the % scale).
I wasn't saying Base I wasn't worthwhile, it's a valuable foundation, and I think you're correct to be doing it - I'll be starting my winter shcedule there myself very shortly. I thought you were complaining that the rides weren't difficult enough. I guess it comes back to regular FTP tests - if you're up to date with that, then you know each workout is how it's meant to be!
Good luck with the knee injury. Having had one myself I know what a pain they can be - literally!
Cheers,
MarkP

markp80

ChrisSA wrote:

Jobs tonight as part of the TT plan. 4x6 mins. 3rd rep felt hard so overgeared it - down to last night's running. Legs feel much better now than before.

That looks a good one Chris, with the intervals at 105% of FTP. Which TT plan are you doing?
I've been doing a lot of Thunderbolt recently, which is a similar workout - 5x5min @ 100% FTP, 1 min RBI. Only 45 mins overall, so worth a look if you're short on time.

Cheers,
MarkP

napoleond

I tend to only do workouts I've created myself these days. They are ideal as I will only be racing sprint on the track so no worries about 'getting the miles in'

markp80

cerv50 wrote:

Right then guys, I did a session last night that contained ILT's (individual leg training). Now this was hard work and I found stopping the chain klonking very difficult. I was also a bit concerned that maybe this would be too much for my recovering knee but all seems OK this morning which is a relief.

Has anyone else tried one leg pedalling and how did you find it? Also do you think its necessary as how often do you find yourself riding like this in the real world

Yes, some of the plan rides have those instructions. I tried following it, didn't like it, so didn't bother.
I'm afraid I have no idea whether it's worthwhile or necessary though. I just personally found that it felt like it was disrupting my workout rather than adding to it.

MarkP

DaveL

Just signed up, planning on doing a practice test tonight (to get a feel for it), not sure which one yet though I haven't decided.

Dave

cerv50

No other way to start this post really and am looking for some of your knowledge/assistance here please.

My first 8 min FTP test when I signed up to TR gave me a score of 268 which I was really pleased with. I completed the Base 1 training plan and today did a second 8 minute FTP test which it has a suggested FTP of 266, what's gone wrong there?

1st test
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

2nd test today
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

I worked very hard doing all the sessions at a high level and some even went more than all out and worked much harder than suggested. I feel stronger when riding the bike but this hasn't shown up on the FTP tests. Now I have been racking my brain about the differences between the 2 tests I did and have come up with this:

1st test, done in the morning (my best time of day)
2nd test, done in the afternoon, after work (manual labour not office job) and since being awake since 4am!

1st test, done using small chainring and spinning at a higher cadence. This is how I ride normally.
2nd test, done using large chainring and spinning at approx. 90rpm give or take a few

1st test, looking at my training diary was done after a weeks rest from riding or turbo
2nd test, rode both Saturday 28th (new saddle test 32 miles) and Sunday 29th (50 mile sportive in 2 hrs 39), 1hr TR 1st Oct, 1hr TR 3rd, 1.5hrs TR 5th, ride 32 miles at pace on the 6th, 2 days rest then TR FTP test today.

I have been eating properly and although weight has gone up 2lbs since my last test this is such a small amount I doubt whether it would make any difference whilst on the turbo.

I was exhausted after the FTP test today and whilst writing this I still feel a bit light headed. So basically I am asking where do I go from here. I have a 80 mile ride with my club planned for this Saturday which I don't really want to miss and was planning a short 25 miler alone on Sunday. Now should I scrap the Sunday ride and try the FTP test again Sunday morning or do it in 4 weeks time?

I was planning on starting base plan 2 but now am thinking this is not what I need. I am so confused as to where and what to do next and am really hoping someone can help me out here please.

markp80

cerv50 wrote:

My first 8 min FTP test when I signed up to TR gave me a score of 268 which I was really pleased with. I completed the Base 1 training plan and today did a second 8 minute FTP test which it has a suggested FTP of 266, what's gone wrong there?

OK, first of all, I wouldn't be too disappointed in not seeing a jump, there are a lot of variables, many of which you mention yourself - time of day, level of tiredness etc ewtc. Any or all of these could contribute. So, sometimes you'll see FTP go up when you test, sometimes you won't.

However, I've had a look at your chart for your latest test and one thing strikes me - boy, did you go for it at the start! You were nearly touching 400w there, which would give you an FTP of 350w if you'd maintained it! That would be one heck of a jump. Did you realise that? So my initial thoughts are that you have probably gone out far too hard to begin with, which is never a good idea. (For an arbitrary comparison, after my first four weeks my FTP rose from 176w to 183w, then 197w four weeks later).

Apologies if I'm saying stuff you already know, but the target line on that latest FTP test is equivalent to your current FTP - in other words, if you follow the line exactly, you'll have an FTP identical to your current one (308w target for your current 268w FTP). Remember, the target shown is different to when you first did the test, when it's set arbitrarily at an FTP of 200w. Your FTP turned out to be 268w, and as can be seen from your first ride, you did indeed ride well above the target power. But once you've identified your FTP and set the software, don't expect a similar jump again.

So, before you do a test, have a think about what you think you can realistically achieve. Start off for the first minute at or near the target power for your current FTP and see how you feel, and build gradually. Make a realistic target. How about going for 280w? - Then your 8min target would be 325ish. Not 400, and that's a huge difference! Think about the on screen instructions, which remind you not to go out too hard. If you get into the test and feel a bit stronger then push it more towards the end of the first interval. This will give you a feel for how you'll manage in the second interval. Be realistic though - aim to be falling off hte bike at the end, but don't go out too hard or you won't make it to the end.

OK, I realise it's a test, not a workout to see if you can get a specific target, but to do the best you can do. However, I find in order to complete a test succesfully I have to set myself reasonable goals. I might achieve them or I might do better (or worse), but you have to make it to the end of the test without blowing up along the way. A bit liking setting out too hard up aclimb I guess.

The more I look at it, the more I think that's what yiu've done there. So, maybe try again after the weekend and try for that 280w (or 290w, 333w target if you like). But don't start at 400w. Don't cancel your Sunday ride though, maybe test on Tuesday or Wed. And definitely keep following the plans. They do work. If you've finished BaseI, I'd definitely recommend going on to Base II.

Hope that helps,
MarkP

cerv50

Cheers MarkP, some great advice, thank you.

I hear what you saying about going out too hard to start off with. As mentioned I have gone up from riding in the small ring to the large and started out with a cadence of nearly 100 during the first 8 minutes which I thought I could hold onto but after a few minutes my legs blew out on me and the best I could manage was much lower. It put me in a negative mind set which wasn't good but I remembered what figure I managed and tried to replicate this for the second 8 minute blast. I did hold onto around 90rpm but it was blooming hard work and am still suffering now lol. Dropped my drink bottle on the floor during the 10 minute rest which pee'd me off too.

I was hoping to achieve an FTP of around 280 to 290 this test, (is that too big a jump to expect maybe), so what power should I be aiming to carry out the 2x8 minute sessions at? (is that the 325 you mention?) I am sure I am more powerful than prior to starting TR which is probably why it shocked me to see my FTP drop. When I first got the turbo I could barely manage to turn the large ring let alone complete the sessions so improvements have been made.

I did find when I got on the turbo that my legs felt quite heavy before even starting and feel that having a couple of rest days has maybe not done my any good and that I should have had even a half hour spinning session to pep them up a day or so ago. I suppose some people can ride every day where others find it difficult. Just a case of learning how ones body reacts to rest and exercise in different proportions.

napoleond

Start your FTP test by setting off in the first interval at your old FTP and build. For the second one, see how you did on the first and try and pace at that average...

markp80

NapoleonD wrote:

Start your FTP test by setting off in the first interval at your old FTP and build. For the second one, see how you did on the first and try and pace at that average...

I think that summarises what I was trying to say but by using about 2000 fewer words!

markp80

cerv50 wrote:

but after a few minutes my legs blew out on me and the best I could manage was much lower.

- I think that's your answer!
To get your 8 min target, take the FTP and multiply by 1.15. I'd personally be happy going fro 268 to 280, so maybe think about a target somewhere around there. But as NapD has suggested, start at the level corresponding to your current FTP and go off feel as the test progresses. But don't set out too hard!

cerv50

Thanks chaps, will go for my rides this weekend as planned then FTP test middle next week and will take all your advice on board and will post up how I did To get my target of 280 I need to push at 322 or thereabouts. Don't know about anyone else but leading up to the test I got rather anxious, shouldn't really as its not like my life depends on it lol

napoleond

Just remember, it is what it is. I used to get apprehensive but now, well, if it hasn't gone up, so what? My last one I was pleasantly surprised.
Don't just test ftp though. Test your 12s and 1 min power too.
I have a testing week every couple if months.
Monday - 5 min (1 of), 1 min (x2) and sprint (x2)
Weds - 10 min (x2)
Fri - 20 min FTP using the 10 min test as a guide, start at about 10w less than the 10 min effort.
That gives a good look at your strengths/weaknesses and how you've changed.

dw300

Guys, if your FTP is set right, and you're training hard near your limits, then form is going to play a part in whether you increase your FTP score. So ideally you want to be similarly fatigued, or similarly fresh when you do your FTP tests.

It would be easy to be stronger, but get a lower score because you're tired. Especially as the test will seem mentally tougher while you're riding it because of the fatigue.

I dont race yet, but I assume it's a lot like why an edge in form could be more important than a small overall deficit in fitness in races.

The apprehensive feeling is a reminder that it's time to get serious and focused, and fill your head with positive thoughts about achieving your goal. Once you can catch yourself on and can take a step back from the situation and realise that, it's a wicked tool in tackling any goal, large or small.

DaveL

8 minute test done
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/424652

Probably could of gone slightly harder, but this was a test of the test if you know what I mean

Dave