The official TrainerRoad thread

moscowflyer

Ok, so I'm off and running!

Did an FTP test tonight, a bit hungover so decided to do the 8 minute test just to get a figure to work with. The first 8 minutes were done a bit easier than the second as I had no idea how hard to go, the second 8 was a lot more consistent but I was barely clinging on at the end and almost toppled over at one point! FTP was calculated as 297 by the end, could maybe have been higher had the first 8 mirrored the second but I'm happy enough. I'll do a 20 minute test in 2-3 weeks.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377024

It was my first proper ride with the Road Machine, and I loved it. It's head and shoulders above any turbo I've used in the past and really does replicate riding on the road. Coupled with TR I'm actually looking forward to winter...

markp80

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Ok, so I'm off and running!

Did an FTP test tonight, a bit hungover so decided to do the 8 minute test just to get a figure to work with. The first 8 minutes were done a bit easier than the second as I had no idea how hard to go, the second 8 was a lot more consistent but I was barely clinging on at the end and almost toppled over at one point! FTP was calculated as 297 by the end, could maybe have been higher had the first 8 mirrored the second but I'm happy enough. I'll do a 20 minute test in 2-3 weeks.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377024

It was my first proper ride with the Road Machine, and I loved it. It's head and shoulders above any turbo I've used in the past and really does replicate riding on the road. Coupled with TR I'm actually looking forward to winter...

Nice ride, that's an FTP I can only dream of at present!
I agree with you on the KK RM, I love mine.

cerv50

Awesome 8 minute test mate. After my balls up Sunday I'm going to have another go this morning, will post my results later. Assume you just copy and paste the URL screen from TR to get it in here for all to see?

A friend did the 8 min test Sunday too and I consider him a strong rider, his FTP was 267, doubt mine will be anywhere near that but we shall see :roll:

markp80

cerv50 wrote:

Awesome 8 minute test mate. After my balls up Sunday I'm going to have another go this morning, will post my results later. Assume you just copy and paste the URL screen from TR to get it in here for all to see?

A friend did the 8 min test Sunday too and I consider him a strong rider, his FTP was 267, doubt mine will be anywhere near that but we shall see :roll:

I generally do the 8 min test rather than the 20 min, but it's just a personal preference. Plenty of people prefer the 20 min test, but they're both equally valid. I think, from memory, the 20m takes 95% of the interval power as your FTP, whereas the 8m takes 90% of the interval power for the average of the two intervals.
It sounds like you have it sussed now, but you should see your power continuously displayed on the screen during your workout (along with cadence, but not speed). If it isn't shown, then something isn't set up correctly, but hopefully it''s sorted now you've fixed the wheel sensor issue. The LTHR you mentioned is lactate threshold heart rate, used if you are training using heartrate only, I believe.
You're trying to give your maximum performance over the test intervals, so don't forget the initial FTP setting is irelevant - don't try and follow the 200W default target, do your sustainable best.
And don't let a low FTP bother you, the important thing is to get a baseline, from which you can monitor progress. If you're going to follow one of the 8-week plans, re-test after 4 weeks and see if you've improved.
FTP/kg is useful to follow as well. I've seen my FTP rise a fair bit over the last year, but FTP/kg has improved even more as I've lost weight.
Cheers,
MarkP

cerv50

Thanks for you help Mark, all was set up correctly today on the bike, just had to get myself into the right mindset to do the test all over again.

I am chuffed to bits with my efforts, FTP 268, no where near as good as some but still very pleased. I am going to start the intermediate base plan 1 on Wednesday and then re test at the end of the 6 weeks to see if Im improving.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377465

moscowflyer

cerv50 wrote:

Thanks for you help Mark, all was set up correctly today on the bike, just had to get myself into the right mindset to do the test all over again.

I am chuffed to bits with my efforts, FTP 268, no where near as good as some but still very pleased. I am going to start the intermediate base plan 1 on Wednesday and then re test at the end of the 6 weeks to see if Im improving.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377465

Your power for the two efforts look pretty much identical to mine, as in you didn't hit the gas full on in the first one. It's hard to judge how hard to go if you're not used to doing them.

cerv50

MoscowFlyer wrote:

cerv50 wrote:

Thanks for you help Mark, all was set up correctly today on the bike, just had to get myself into the right mindset to do the test all over again.

I am chuffed to bits with my efforts, FTP 268, no where near as good as some but still very pleased. I am going to start the intermediate base plan 1 on Wednesday and then re test at the end of the 6 weeks to see if Im improving.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377465

Your power for the two efforts look pretty much identical to mine, as in you didn't hit the gas full on in the first one. It's hard to judge how hard to go if you're not used to doing them.

Found the 2nd 8 minute test quite difficult to keep the power smooth as legs started to fade, anyone standing outside my garage door would have wondered what the hell was going on with the heavy breathing and pushing yourself noises, you know what I mean hopefully

Enjoyed it and am looking forward to the training plan. I expect lots of people just go and do the different rides that are available but I like something scheduled for me to work too. Once the 2 plans are completed then I may tinker around with the other rides.

Have you done any others since your 8 minute test?

moscowflyer

I only did the test last night so my second session will be this evening, I might take a look at 'Clarence King'

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/5205

I'll be doing some random stuff for the next few weeks to mix it up a bit, then when the winter starts setting in I'll probably follow one of the plans.

napoleond

Back on it now after 6 weeks of illness where I have been absolutely floored (glandular fever)

I've done about 10 days of JRA on the road then last night I had a crack at a sweet spot session. I used my prev FTP of 301 and managed the 2 x 10 at 265w ok. I felt I could have done all 4 intervals but wanted to be careful.

cerv50

MoscowFlyer wrote:

I only did the test last night so my second session will be this evening, I might take a look at 'Clarence King'

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/5205

I'll be doing some random stuff for the next few weeks to mix it up a bit, then when the winter starts setting in I'll probably follow one of the plans.

That looks pretty tough going seeing the amount of people who have not completed it.

I am going to not TR every day but leave 48 hours gap between sessions to repair and hopefully grow stronger, don't want to risk burn out seeing only just coming back to full fitness level after tendon/muscle damage in April.

moscowflyer

Looks like it's the same person that's failed it each time though. I'll be looking at 3-4 sessions a week along with the outdoor stuff I do, hopefully I can lose a bit of fat and up my FTP in the first couple of months.

spearmint_wino

Signed up last night, going to do the 20-min test tonight, after doing Sufferfest Rubber Glove just 2 weeks ago to get my LTHR :evil:

I spent the beginning of the year doing base work, then did the TCTP novice century plan that led me up to the Etape. No other goals this year apart from a 100mile sportive mid-October.

Can TR veterans advise - is there a plan I should follow to take me into that sportive or should I just blast tempo + threshold workouts until following the base plans over winter?

cerv50

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Looks like it's the same person that's failed it each time though. I'll be looking at 3-4 sessions a week along with the outdoor stuff I do, hopefully I can lose a bit of fat and up my FTP in the first couple of months.

Very similar to me, will do 3 TR sessions spread through the week and a ride on Sunday which is usually my only chance to get out for a number of hours. Keep in touch on here, (or PM if you prefer) and we can see how we both improve

moscowflyer

Hopefully this thread will kick off again as we head out of summer and people start getting back on their trainers again. Will certainly be interesting to see how people improve over the coming months.

I've just about started to recover from my second session. I decided to go for 'Geiger' this evening with 3x12 minutes at 'sweet spot'. I'm finding it hard to get my precision consistent but I managed to get through it, just about. I've never lost so much sweat on the bike before, my jersey was absolutely saturated at the end!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377740

spearmint_wino

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Hopefully this thread will kick off again as we head out of summer and people start getting back on their trainers again. Will certainly be interesting to see how people improve over the coming months

+1, although hopefully the weather will stay good for as long as possible!

I did my first session tonight, the 20min test. FTP of 264, doesn't mean much to me as I've never used power and know that its only a relative figure. One thing that has me slightly puzzled is this:

I did Sufferfest Rubber Glove recently, my average HR for the 20min interval (according to my Garmin uploaded to Strava) was 164, so therefore LTHR = 164?

Tonight's 20min interval on TR came out suggesting I use 155 as LTHR.

Why the difference? Can anyone explain?

markp80

MoscowFlyer wrote:

I'll be doing some random stuff for the next few weeks to mix it up a bit, then when the winter starts setting in I'll probably follow one of the plans.

When I'm just doing random rides as opposed to following a plan, I tend to drop whichever Sufferfest vid I fancy into TrainerRoad. Some of these are good, structured workouts, but the videos add a bit of fun.
I personally like the profiles in Angels, Fight Club and A Very Dark Place, but whatever takes your fancy.

Cheers,
MarkP

spearmint_wino

markP80 wrote:

I personally like the profiles in Angels, Fight Club and A Very Dark Place, but whatever takes your fancy.

I bought Blender the other day, yet to try it out. I like the Sufferfest format, entertaining!

spearmint wino wrote:

I did Sufferfest Rubber Glove recently, my average HR for the 20min interval (according to my Garmin uploaded to Strava) was 164, so therefore LTHR = 164?

Tonight's 20min interval on TR came out suggesting I use 155 as LTHR.

Why the difference? Can anyone explain?

Got it. TR amended the figure by multiplying 164 by .95, the Sufferest instructions didn't say to do that. But which is correct?

cerv50

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Hopefully this thread will kick off again as we head out of summer and people start getting back on their trainers again. Will certainly be interesting to see how people improve over the coming months.

I've just about started to recover from my second session. I decided to go for 'Geiger' this evening with 3x12 minutes at 'sweet spot'. I'm finding it hard to get my precision consistent but I managed to get through it, just about. I've never lost so much sweat on the bike before, my jersey was absolutely saturated at the end!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377740

Nice one, it is quite hard to follow a smooth line with power but assume that comes with practice.

I don't bother with a jersey, bib shorts and a towel over the handlebars for me Rest day today then back on tomorrow. In a kind of sadistic way I'm looking forward to it

moscowflyer

I like to have my iPod in my back pocket so I can listen to it, plus my garage is within view of people when the doors are open so although I unzip, I don't think they're quite ready to view the full girth of my gut just yet

markp80

spearmint wino wrote:

I bought Blender the other day, yet to try it out. I like the Sufferfest format, entertaining!

Yes, but that's an hour and a half, isn't it? Ouch!

spearmint wino wrote:

spearmint wino wrote:

I did Sufferfest Rubber Glove recently, my average HR for the 20min interval (according to my Garmin uploaded to Strava) was 164, so therefore LTHR = 164?

Tonight's 20min interval on TR came out suggesting I use 155 as LTHR.

Why the difference? Can anyone explain?

Got it. TR amended the figure by multiplying 164 by .95, the Sufferest instructions didn't say to do that. But which is correct?

When you do an FTP test in TR, your FTP relates to your threshold power for an hour. The tests are your maximum power for either 8 or 20 minutes, so to convert that to a one-hour FTP, it multiplies your test interval power by 0.90 or 0.95 respectively, depending on the length of the test. The theory is that obviously you can hold a higher power for a shorter period of time and there's a direct correlation to FTP.
I don't know but I therefore presume there is a similar correlation between short test heart rate and 1 hour LTHR. This suggests here that you can maintain a hr of 164 for the 20 min interval, but for your one hour lactate threshold, your HR would only be 155.
Just out of interest though, do you have a specific reason for being so interested in LTHR? I'm right in thinking you're using virtual power with TR on the turbo? Do you use LTHR when you're outside or something?

Cheers,
MarkP

markp80

cerv50 wrote:

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Hopefully this thread will kick off again as we head out of summer and people start getting back on their trainers again. Will certainly be interesting to see how people improve over the coming months.

I've just about started to recover from my second session. I decided to go for 'Geiger' this evening with 3x12 minutes at 'sweet spot'. I'm finding it hard to get my precision consistent but I managed to get through it, just about. I've never lost so much sweat on the bike before, my jersey was absolutely saturated at the end!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377740

Nice one, it is quite hard to follow a smooth line with power but assume that comes with practice.

I don't bother with a jersey, bib shorts and a towel over the handlebars for me Rest day today then back on tomorrow. In a kind of sadistic way I'm looking forward to it

I don't wear a jersey either, and I fear that since MrsP saw me, it may have changed our relationship forever.

There is an option in the software to do power smoothing, so it doesn't jump around so much, but i don't use this as I found it tends to introduce a bit of lag to the reading, I prefer to see the figurse change instantly when I change effort.
Mine jumps around by maybe 5W when I'm working though, but TBH, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep as close as you can to the target, it doesn't matter if you vary +/- a few watts, the software averages it at the end, and as long as you're close, you're still doing the workout. If anythin, I find the slight variation makes me work very slightly above target, which must be a good thing!

With regard to seeing how people improve with TR, interesting thread here -
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12918168

spearmint_wino

MarkP80 wrote:

Just out of interest though, do you have a specific reason for being so interested in LTHR? I'm right in thinking you're using virtual power with TR on the turbo? Do you use LTHR when you're outside or something?

Yeah, using VP on the turbo but LTHR is a good reference point for me to pace efforts when out on the road, and its also what I did my last training plan to.

I used 164bpm as a rough pacing guide in the 20min test on TR last night, and it served well - pushed it up more in the last 5 mins but it felt 'about right'. Had a bit more not much left at the end, which makes me think 155bpm as suggested by TR after the test is too low?

moscowflyer

Just suffered my first beating, or humiliation in fact, at the hands of this beast.

Decided to nip home for a 20 minute interval session at lunch, looked fairly straightforward on the screen... Three intervals in and I was a mess, then it was all downhill and I failed miserably.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/378340

cerv50

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Just suffered my first beating, or humiliation in fact, at the hands of this beast.

Decided to nip home for a 20 minute interval session at lunch, looked fairly straightforward on the screen... Three intervals in and I was a mess, then it was all downhill and I failed miserably.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/378340

That does look pretty straight forward like you say but then you look at the left hand side and see that most of the intervals are at 400. I take it you tried this at 100% of your FTP?. If I have read TR correctly you can reduce the effort by lowering the percentage of your FTP. On the same subject do you or anyone else train at 100% of FTP or lower it to 80% for example? I'm sure Mark will be along later to help us newbies out

cerv50

MarkP80 wrote:

cerv50 wrote:

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Hopefully this thread will kick off again as we head out of summer and people start getting back on their trainers again. Will certainly be interesting to see how people improve over the coming months.

I've just about started to recover from my second session. I decided to go for 'Geiger' this evening with 3x12 minutes at 'sweet spot'. I'm finding it hard to get my precision consistent but I managed to get through it, just about. I've never lost so much sweat on the bike before, my jersey was absolutely saturated at the end!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/377740

Nice one, it is quite hard to follow a smooth line with power but assume that comes with practice.

I don't bother with a jersey, bib shorts and a towel over the handlebars for me Rest day today then back on tomorrow. In a kind of sadistic way I'm looking forward to it

I don't wear a jersey either, and I fear that since MrsP saw me, it may have changed our relationship forever.

There is an option in the software to do power smoothing, so it doesn't jump around so much, but i don't use this as I found it tends to introduce a bit of lag to the reading, I prefer to see the figurse change instantly when I change effort.
Mine jumps around by maybe 5W when I'm working though, but TBH, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep as close as you can to the target, it doesn't matter if you vary +/- a few watts, the software averages it at the end, and as long as you're close, you're still doing the workout. If anythin, I find the slight variation makes me work very slightly above target, which must be a good thing!

With regard to seeing how people improve with TR, interesting thread here -
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12918168

Good thread there Mark, will go back to that and vote after completing base 1 and another 8 min test to see if I have got any better

moscowflyer

cerv50 wrote:

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Just suffered my first beating, or humiliation in fact, at the hands of this beast.

Decided to nip home for a 20 minute interval session at lunch, looked fairly straightforward on the screen... Three intervals in and I was a mess, then it was all downhill and I failed miserably.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/378340

That does look pretty straight forward like you say but then you look at the left hand side and see that most of the intervals are at 400. I take it you tried this at 100% of your FTP?. If I have read TR correctly you can reduce the effort by lowering the percentage of your FTP. On the same subject do you or anyone else train at 100% of FTP or lower it to 80% for example? I'm sure Mark will be along later to help us newbies out

Yeah, 100%. If my FTP is set at a certain level, I'm not keen on lowering the intensity as to me it kind of defeats the object, but then I am a TR newbie so maybe someone can give good reasons as to why I should (other than saving my pride on workouts like this...). Live and learn I guess, I certainly won't be taking anything for granted from now on.

foggybike

Any ideas why my Wahoo KICKR keeps switching to STANDARD mode from ERG when I try and do the 8 minute test??

All ok until the first 8mins start then bang switch to standard and screws it all up...

P1ssing me off 3rd time in have attempted it now.

please help

markp80

Yep, unless you have a specific reason not to, it's 100%, because the workouts are specifically designed to be relative to your FTP. No pain, no gain!
As an exception, I often do the Sufferfests at 95%, but they're not part of any plan I'm following - they're designed to let you see your lunch again!

Edit - that Half Dome does look a beast! Very high interval targets relative to FTP. I guess that's the price to pay for a short workout. Maybe it's meant to be used as part of a specific training programme, rather than just as a quick occasional workout. I wouldn't be disappointed if I hadn't managed to complete that one though, it looks like it would give a real beasting

cerv50

100% it is tonight then, first training session of intermediate base 1

moscowflyer

MarkP80 wrote:

Edit - that Half Dome does look a beast! Very high interval targets relative to FTP. I guess that's the price to pay for a short workout. Maybe it's meant to be used as part of a specific training programme, rather than just as a quick occasional workout. I wouldn't be disappointed if I hadn't managed to complete that one though, it looks like it would give a real beasting

Yeah, I'm not feeling too bad about it now. I think that is a particularly tough one, I'll have a crack at a couple of others but maybe I'll do a plan sooner than I anticipated starting next week. My legs are shot today so I'll see how I feel before tackling one tonight.