The official TrainerRoad thread

jgsi

go on then, who has or is going to do the 3 hour turbo ride , so that the neat little graph thingy gets filled up on the career page?

whojanicanackerov

JGSI wrote:

go on then, who has or is going to do the 3 hour turbo ride , so that the neat little graph thingy gets filled up on the career page?

Well it wont be me

t.m.h.n.e.t

JGSI wrote:

go on then, who has or is going to do the 3 hour turbo ride , so that the neat little graph thingy gets filled up on the career page?

If there was a SF vid of Vicky P going round the velodrome for 3hrs, I would certainly follow it.

dw300

JGSI wrote:

go on then, who has or is going to do the 3 hour turbo ride , so that the neat little graph thingy gets filled up on the career page?

That makes my buttocks ache just thinking about it!

dw300

Ok, gona jump on the bike, but i don't know what workout to do.

Thinking about an hour. Don't want any big 20 minute intervals, but want to exert myself. I'm thinking something that'll help me get back on the end of a group of better riders if I get dropped, might come in useful!

Thinking maybe .. Fight Club (Remastered) .. ?

t.m.h.n.e.t

Starting last WO of WK1 Intermediate Base.

90 mins of baxter. yay!

whojanicanackerov

dw300 wrote:

Ok, gona jump on the bike, but i don't know what workout to do.

Thinking about an hour. Don't want any big 20 minute intervals, but want to exert myself. I'm thinking something that'll help me get back on the end of a group of better riders if I get dropped, might come in useful!

Thinking maybe .. Fight Club (Remastered) .. ?

Well executed that fight club ride DW I`m having 2 days rest as Saturdays Club run was a tough one on tired legs Tomorrow will be back to business though.

dw300

Ok, well I sorted 2 of my 3 niggling pains from the 20min test, but I still have some pain from my left knee area. specifically, the boney bit to the right of my left kneecap. I never feel this on the road, only on the trainer, and only in my left leg. Any ideas?

Anyway, here's the workout .. felt easy enough apart from the knee pain .. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72645

Well spotted whojan, I hadn't even finished this post!

You finished yet TM?

t.m.h.n.e.t

dw300 wrote:

Ok, well I sorted 2 of my 3 niggling pains from the 20min test, but I still have some pain from my left knee area. specifically, the boney bit to the right of my left kneecap. I never feel this on the road, only on the trainer, and only in my left leg. Any ideas?

Anyway, here's the workout .. felt easy enough apart from the knee pain .. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72645

Well spotted whojan, I hadn't even finished this post!

You finished yet TM?

Aye. Had to call it quits at 55mins or so, boring the tits off me! Felt a bit "tourist" opposed to the hard graft of Gayley.

Onward to week 2 which is a balls lol Ericsson - Monitor - Eclipse

whojanicanackerov

Have a read of this regarding the knee pain. Saddle to low or needs moving back?
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... t-2-17445/

whojanicanackerov

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

dw300 wrote:

Ok, well I sorted 2 of my 3 niggling pains from the 20min test, but I still have some pain from my left knee area. specifically, the boney bit to the right of my left kneecap. I never feel this on the road, only on the trainer, and only in my left leg. Any ideas?

Anyway, here's the workout .. felt easy enough apart from the knee pain .. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72645

Well spotted whojan, I hadn't even finished this post!

You finished yet TM?

Aye. Had to call it quits at 55mins or so, boring the tits off me! Felt a bit "tourist" opposed to the hard graft of Gayley.

Onward to week 2 which is a balls lol Ericsson - Monitor - Eclipse

THM well done... I hate not being able to finish a TR ride or even just a turbo ride for that matter.
I failed the other week through tiredness and then again having forgot I had to take the kids the dentist :oops:.
I think when I attempt the longer than an hour rides I will be wearing two pairs of bib shorts to help relief the arse pain.
Boredom will never get the better of me though, music will pull me through :P

whojanicanackerov

THM just wait until the eclipse ride.you will need plenty of grit spit and a bit more grit to get through that one.
Will be worth it though in the long run!!

t.m.h.n.e.t

whojanicanackerov wrote:

THM just wait until the eclipse ride.you will need plenty of grit spit and a bit more grit to get through that one.
Will be worth it though in the long run!!

I actually prefer the look of this weeks three lol. 120% balls out.

jgsi

http://app.strava.com/clubs/trainerroad

and dont do this if you bike setup issues:
http://blog.trainerroad.com/workout-of- ... -disaster/

you might need to refresh the TR applet.

NatePearson

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

NatePearson wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

TR doesn't seem to like the Garmin HRM when paired through the Movestick, it becomes extremely laggy and refuses to load workouts.

Ever came across this Nate? My phone (SE Xperia Neo) is ANT compatible out of the box and it pairs faultlessly in Endomondo and Mapmyride

Hey,

No I haven't. Can you e-mail us at support@trainerroad.com? We'll turn on some logging to see what's going on. The program that receives ANT data is super light weight, so it shouldn't be bogging down anything. I'm sure we can figure it out though.

Will do

-suggestion-
Would it be possible to add an intensity field to the profile so that all workouts automatically default to 120% for example, but keep the on the fly adjustment during?

Just change your FTP.

NatePearson

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

For the uninitiated Trainer Road (which shall be referred to as TR from now onwards) is a Windows and Mac compatible software designed to make turbo trainer workouts a little more challenging. The software itself relies wholly upon ANT+ technology to provide the real-time feedback during a workout.

There are 3 ways in which to do and record a workout with TR

ANT+ Power meters: (Quarq , PowerTap , SRM , Power2Max, Garmin Vector, Zone, etc) or a CompuTrainer.

Heart Rate: ANT+ HR Strap (Garmin , Cycleops, Wahoo Fitness , etc)

Virtual Power: ANT+ Speed Sensor - Garmin GSC10, Wahoo Fitness Speed and Cadence Sensor

***All three methods require a USB ANT+ receiver stick. Garmin make one as do Suunto(Movestick mini)***

And a compatible Turbo Trainer: List here


Virtual Power(commonly used by TR users here on BR) takes the known power curve from a listed trainer and through your ANT+ speed sensor turns this into an approximate figure in watts. This figure is then used as you follow the onscreen instructions and prompts during a workout.

With VirtualPower™, we are effectively measuring power at the trainer. That means that any variance in the drive train between your pedals and the trainer can have an effect. When training with VirtualPower, make sure your tire pressure and tension against the wheel are the same each time you ride. This will give you consistent power readings.

Different tensions on the wheel effect rolling resistance and can skew your readings. The important thing is to have consistent and repeatable readings to train with. That's why having the same tension on your tire and the same tire pressure each ride is important.

So once you have the hardware you chose fitted it's time to download TR and begin the very easy setup process. The first time you load the program is will take a few seconds to download workout files.

You can then go to this screen if you have your USB ANT+ stick plugged in and installed. I've already used TR so my sensors have been paired already but haven't been woken up.



A quick spin of my cranks (bike is on other side of room) wakes up the Wahoo speed/cadence sensor fitted. The HRM will pair itself once a heartbeat is detected.


Note: I have my trainer and resistance level selected in this same window.


With devices paired it's almost time to do a workout(theres plenty of them!) But some other minor stuff first.

Click on the "Profile" tab.


For most purposes you would want to be training with FTP, this by default is set to 200 which can be lower or higher for you. As you can see mine is currently 220

LTHR: Is a pretty random number as I was having problems with a known bug.

Power smoothing: This option stabilizes the figures as an average during a workout. You can have none, 3secs or 5secs.

The last important option is "Don't use cadence to play and pause workouts". This option ticked will start a workout once you hit the start button, if you use cadence(above 60rpm) starts the workout and 0 rpm pauses the workout. A handy feature if you break your bike like I did yesterday :P (this was not any fault of TR or the trainer )

Workout screen: The gold stars are workouts that I have favourited,these will remain at the top of the window. I'm currently doing the intermediate base plan and Baxter is my next ride so it's there waiting. You can open and view a workout by clicking the graph or by using the Open button when you are viewing the details of the workout.



A sensible place to start is with the 20 minute test. This is 1 hour long with a 20 minute max effort segment. This segment is used to calculate your FTP (the maximum power you can sustain for 1hr) After you have done this, TR will give you a recommendation as to what it thinks your FTP should be set to. As you will see soon,this setting scales all workouts for you.

Here is the result: Although it suggested 201 I made it a little higher anyway.



Down to business:



I've taken the liberty of highlighting 6 fields to explain a little further so onto the 3 upper left of the window:

Power: This is the current power that is being calculated

Bold red line: When this bar is green you are in the sweet spot either side of the target.

Target power: This is the target for you to achieve during a particular segment. As a segment is either beginning or ending, loud bleeps and onscreen instructions tell you what to do. Watch for this target power figure changing as you go

Heart rate and cadence are a given. If you don't have an HRM paired this field won't show.

Across the middle of the workout is a thick white line. This is my FTP and the workout has scaled around that. The highest peak you see corresponds to 352watts for 30 seconds into a 5minute recovery period of 88watt target. This ramps up to the first 8minute segment @ 253watt target.

Bottom left: This option makes TR stay on top of anything else you are doing,handy for watching fullscreen dvd's, youtube, netflix and so on.

The up/down arrows: This option changes the intensity of your workout on the fly. 100% is your current FTP so if a workout is too easy, turn it up and likewise turn it down if it's too hard.


The other awesomeness in TR is compatibility with SufferFest. Currently I only have Hell Hath No Fury and here it is,fully integrated with TR.




The workouts you do will then be listed under the "Career" tab within which you can share via Facebook,download and review the data.

Wow, great post!

dw300

Can someone tell me if there is a guideline power table for different time periods based off FTP. I mean FTP is roughly 95% of 20 minute power, so 1hr is 100%, 20 mins is 105.3%, etc etc.

I know from lifting that you can work out from your current lifts, what your 1 Rep Max, double, triple, or set of 5 or 8 should roughly be.

So if I know my FTP, can you roughly work out what you'd expect your power for 2 hours or 3 hours, or more or less to be?

t.m.h.n.e.t

NatePearson wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

NatePearson wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

TR doesn't seem to like the Garmin HRM when paired through the Movestick, it becomes extremely laggy and refuses to load workouts.

Ever came across this Nate? My phone (SE Xperia Neo) is ANT compatible out of the box and it pairs faultlessly in Endomondo and Mapmyride

Hey,

No I haven't. Can you e-mail us at support@trainerroad.com? We'll turn on some logging to see what's going on. The program that receives ANT data is super light weight, so it shouldn't be bogging down anything. I'm sure we can figure it out though.

Will do

-suggestion-
Would it be possible to add an intensity field to the profile so that all workouts automatically default to 120% for example, but keep the on the fly adjustment during?

Just change your FTP.

It didn't occur to me that the most simple of solutions was staring me in the face Thanks Nate

ps: have been watching the last few of the original Bond's. Licence to kill left then onto the more modern Brosnan era I tried to prove this by taking a screen of Ursula Andress in a seductive pose in Dr No. After that I have

Line of sight
The Flying Scotsman
LA 7 in a row
Olympic XC MTB mens and womens
A lot of TDF
Pendleton - Cyclings golden girl
Wiggins - A very British champion

And should get Overcoming back off my mate. Bit of Riis and classic Jens in the CSC days

amaferanga

dw300 wrote:

Can someone tell me if there is a guideline power table for different time periods based off FTP. I mean FTP is roughly 95% of 20 minute power, so 1hr is 100%, 20 mins is 105.3%, etc etc.

I know from lifting that you can work out from your current lifts, what your 1 Rep Max, double, triple, or set of 5 or 8 should roughly be.

So if I know my FTP, can you roughly work out what you'd expect your power for 2 hours or 3 hours, or more or less to be?

20 min vs. 1 hour power and 1 hour vs. 2 or 3 hour power are all very much down to the individual. Some folks might only manage 90% of their 20 minute power for an hour, while others may manage closer to 95% or even more. Similarly for 2-3 hour power. Personally I can hold a normalised power of >95% my of my 1 hour power in a 2.5 hour race (but I've no idea if I could maintain a steady state power as high as that). Others may struggle to hold 90% of their 1 hour power for durations of > 2 hours.

So it depends.

amaferanga

With VirtualPower™, we are effectively measuring power at the trainer. That means that any variance in the drive train between your pedals and the trainer can have an effect. When training with VirtualPower, make sure your tire pressure and tension against the wheel are the same each time you ride. This will give you consistent power readings.

Different tensions on the wheel effect rolling resistance and can skew your readings. The important thing is to have consistent and repeatable readings to train with. That's why having the same tension on your tire and the same tire pressure each ride is important.

So why attempt to estimate power with Elite turbo trainers such as the Supercrono Fluid where you have no control over clamping tension? How is it possible to get consistent power readings when simply sitting in a slightly different position on the bike will change the resistance? And all that on top of the fact that the resistance from Elite fluid trainers is so hugely temperature dependent....

whojanicanackerov

Today`s ride was a cracker!!
A very dark place that hurt like hell Will I be going back there Oh yes I will :twisted:
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72787

NatePearson

amaferanga wrote:

With VirtualPower™, we are effectively measuring power at the trainer. That means that any variance in the drive train between your pedals and the trainer can have an effect. When training with VirtualPower, make sure your tire pressure and tension against the wheel are the same each time you ride. This will give you consistent power readings.

Different tensions on the wheel effect rolling resistance and can skew your readings. The important thing is to have consistent and repeatable readings to train with. That's why having the same tension on your tire and the same tire pressure each ride is important.

So why attempt to estimate power with Elite turbo trainers such as the Supercrono Fluid where you have no control over clamping tension? How is it possible to get consistent power readings when simply sitting in a slightly different position on the bike will change the resistance? And all that on top of the fact that the resistance from Elite fluid trainers is so hugely temperature dependent....

Great question. Some trainers just won't work with VirtualPower because of the reasons you've stated. I don't have the data on the Supercrono Fluid in front of me. I believe Elite gave us the power curve for that one, but I'm not sure.

We have a 3 HP motor hooked up to a bike and are running tests on trainers to validate power curves and hopefully build in roll down calibration. That way, if some trainer's resistance curves change as they heat up, we can have someone do a roll down test between intervals and auto-correct the curve. This also helps us with differences in rolling resistance and differences in manufacturing (like fluid levers in a resistance unit).

We've tested a bunch of American trainers, Cycleops, 1up and Kurt Kinetic and they've all done really well on the motor. One thing to note is just about all the trainers take around 5-10 minutes for the rear tire to heat up and stabilize. That's done during a riders warm up period where a drift of a few watts won't matter.

In the end though, we think everyone would benefit from having a power meter so they can take these numbers and go indoors/outdoors/race with them. We understand that's a big investment though, so in the mean time you can get VirtualPower without a large investment.

jgsi

NatePearson wrote:

In the end though, we think everyone would benefit from having a power meter so they can take these numbers and go indoors/outdoors/race with them. We understand that's a big investment though, so in the mean time you can get VirtualPower without a large investment.

I'll say amen to that... without TR , I have to say that I would not have lasted the 8 minutes at an indicated 300 watts on this workout:
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72850
Before, even with Sufferfest, I would simply have given up.

whojanicanackerov

JGSI wrote:

NatePearson wrote:

In the end though, we think everyone would benefit from having a power meter so they can take these numbers and go indoors/outdoors/race with them. We understand that's a big investment though, so in the mean time you can get VirtualPower without a large investment.

I'll say amen to that... without TR , I have to say that I would not have lasted the 8 minutes at an indicated 300 watts on this workout:
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72850
Before, even with Sufferfest, I would simply have given up.

Nice ride that well done!

t.m.h.n.e.t

JGSI wrote:

NatePearson wrote:

In the end though, we think everyone would benefit from having a power meter so they can take these numbers and go indoors/outdoors/race with them. We understand that's a big investment though, so in the mean time you can get VirtualPower without a large investment.

I'll say amen to that... without TR , I have to say that I would not have lasted the 8 minutes at an indicated 300 watts on this workout:
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72850
Before, even with Sufferfest, I would simply have given up.

Nicely done! I placed my bike onto the thing called a road today, it was glorious! Bit of pain and sweat indoors makes a difference outdoors!

jgsi

ah , yes the open road.. I'll remind meself what it is like on Sunday.. my penultimate race of the season

Question for Nate:

My power figures for tempo/sweetspot and threshold seem about right, but the HR numbers seem a bit off.
For instance, it is giving my threshold at 158 where I am sustaining around 170.
Will this self correct when I next do a FTP 'test' or can I calibrate?
The initial FTP test was done without a HR strap to clarify.
I don't really want to repeat another test protocol so soon if I don't have to.
When I race , I don't have power, the only 'number' I have on the bike is HR and if I do 1 and go with a break or do a long one on the last lap ( I have no sprint) , it would be extremely useful to ride to the correct pace with the knowledge gained from the TR figures.

GiantMike

What improvements are you guys seeing as a result of using TR?

whojanicanackerov

Giantmike one of the major factors for me with TR is that it generates greater focus.

dw300

GiantMike wrote:

What improvements are you guys seeing as a result of using TR?

I haven't been using it long enough to illustrate a trend. Give me a couple of months.

dw300

Right .. the weather outside is terrible, another typical British summer's day .. so I decided I wanted to do a tough TR workout, having had a day off the bike yesterday.

I decided to do the 20 minute test again, mainly because I just wanted to see if I could beat my last attempt. I also wanted to test out a new saddle angle and position, and left cleat position.

The position changes seem to have worked. I read the article whojan linked to, and I had a feeling that I was having a problem with my left patella not sliding in it groove properly. Just going by feel, I figured that pointing my left out outwards a bit might stop my knee kicking inwards during the pushing phase of the stroke, and it seems to have done the trick.

So I jumped on the bike and didn't have any pain. I have tilted my seat downwards a bit, so I can rotate my pelvis forward without squashing my bits, which I think gets me in a more powerful position. I was also able to give all I could this time, compared to last time when I hit a max HR of 165, but couldn't put down more power.

Here's the workout .. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/73109

I've gone from an FTP of 172, up to 212, which gets me to a power to weight ratio of 3W/kg .. i can finally say I'm a proper cyclist now. Could've done with a fan!