The official TrainerRoad thread

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  • fukawitribe
    fukawitribe Posts: 109
    Just starting off with TR and a lot of the decision to do so was due to this thread, and the discussions and advice on it. So thanks for that ! I'm no natural cyclist, and got back on the bike a year or so back after a snapped quad stopped me doing a most of the sports I used to do. After a while of being bloody lazy about things I got into commuting + the odd off-road jaunt at weekends - that led to swapping the hybrid I was using on the road for a Trek Domane 2.0. First few weeks on that, all going lovely until I had a bit of a nasty off on a round-about just before Christmas and smacked my ribs up - hence the need for some indoors exercise.

    Obligatory link to first proper ride

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/155669

    I thinking of following Base I for now, but whilst i'm building up some level of fitness, i'm also ridiculously tempted by the SufferFest videos for some reason. Apart from the pure, insane fun of it, i'd really like to put some emphasis on climbing (which I love/hate but am shite at) and endurance, so i'm looking for any advice on what might be a suitable selection - Angels seems an obvious first choice but i'd welcome any hints or pointers on which videos would be good starting point.

    So - how should I start suffering ?
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    Angels is my 'favourite' Sufferfest vid - 3x8 min climbs including following Contador up Alp d'Huez... haven't tried it in TR yet though.

    Did Gayley as per per Plan on Friday night... first couple of intervals were roughly as per the chart but the second two got rather messy...
  • Roubaixsl3
    Roubaixsl3 Posts: 48
    JGSI wrote:
    Roubaixsl3 wrote:
    Been on the turbo for two months now, working mainly on increasing FTP. Now just starting the experienced century high volume plan in time for the first sportive at the end of March. I feel my FTP is accuarate (not the specific value but the effort required), therefore presumably the longer endurance workouts (eg. Perkins) should be at the correct level for me. However having done Perkins twice in the first week, first time felt that my effort was far too low. I realise enduarance training is at a lower effort than threshold but my HR was only around 130. When I'm out on the bike on a long run, I would normally be around the 145 mark, very rarely see it at 130 unless I've backed off. So on the second run on Perkins I bumped it up to 105%, still my HR was hovering around 130, I ramped up the effort in the last 15 minutes just to feel as if I'd worked hard. I really want to get the effort correct over the next 11 weeks so am I right to bump up the % (ie. increase the FTP) to get the same feel as I do on the road or should I leave it as is ?. I know if I increase the FTP I wouldn't be able to achieve the threshold outputs on previous workouts so it doesn't seem right to increase it during the endurance workouts. I just don't want to waste 11 weeks training only to find my century times are the same as last year.
    Robin

    The Advanced century high volume should do the trick there is enough TSS to tax you on a weekly basis and enough to allow some neat recovery before your first event... however,

    you havent retested since early December, do it again

    if the weekend workouts are not hitting the spot , swap 1 for road miles
    Yes I should really do another test. Been avoiding changing to the power tap version (Satori), as I tried one workout on this at my current FTP and couldn't get near my threshold output. I'm not bothered about the actual FTP value though so I just kept it on the standard Satori setting as I'm more familiar with the efforts required per the Wattage numbers on the workouts. Per the previous comment on RPM, I figured for endurance workouts that the RPM should be in the 90-95 range not above 100, maybe that's the wrong assumption. I've read a bit about the theory "slow is the new fast", ie. slow endurance training will reap benefits but to me training is meant to feel like you're exerting yourself, perhaps that's where I'm getting it wrong and should just stick to the workout levels.
  • mattshrops
    mattshrops Posts: 1,134
    something wrong with my laptop tonight-3rd attempt(and last) at this post.

    I agree about retest.

    Although 2hrs L2 isn't too hard. Depends on context really if day before and/or day after you have a hard session with time at/above ftp then it makes sense to have an easier day in between.


    Fukawitribe-welcome. Angels is a good place to start.

    The sufferfest workouts highlight the difference between power(real or virtual) and PE. Using PE my lungs/legs are shouting at me to stop and skewing my ability to guage exertion levels. Power just raises its eyebrows and says "push harder pussy boy" :lol: No contest.
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • CRAIGO5000
    CRAIGO5000 Posts: 697
    So is anyone partaking in the Sufferfest challenge (doing all the sessions over a 7 day period - on two occasions, two per day!)? I'm signed up and ready to go!

    As a test, I did Revolver Reloaded yesterday (48mins) and the last two 1min Anaerobic blasts were difficult to finish. It goes to show how well the FTP tunes each session as my HR was getting near Max threshold by the last few and for training purposes, there isn't any point in going beyond if you want to grow stronger.

    What is the most difficult Sufferfest session then? I'm looking at prepping myself for the onslaught of Sufferfest and need to know which ones I'll have to dig deep in :twisted:
    Ribble Stealth/SRAM Force
    2007 Specialized Allez (Double) FCN - 3
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    fukawitribe wrote:
    I thinking of following Base I for now, but whilst i'm building up some level of fitness, i'm also ridiculously tempted by the SufferFest videos for some reason. Apart from the pure, insane fun of it, i'd really like to put some emphasis on climbing (which I love/hate but am shite at) and endurance, so i'm looking for any advice on what might be a suitable selection - Angels seems an obvious first choice but i'd welcome any hints or pointers on which videos would be good starting point.

    So - how should I start suffering ?
    Angels is a good one, I also like Fight Club.
    It's worth having a look at the profiles of the workouts within TrainerRoad, which will give you an idea of what the workout is like. I personally prefer the structured look of these two, you may prefer something completely different.
    I guess you could give the workouts a try without the video, if you wanted a test run.
    CRAIGO5000 wrote:
    So is anyone partaking in the Sufferfest challenge (doing all the sessions over a 7 day period - on two occasions, two per day!)? I'm signed up and ready to go!
    - I knew someone would give it a go. Nice one! :D

    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • CRAIGO5000
    CRAIGO5000 Posts: 697
    I don't have any of the videos either but I'm still doing the challenge. Nate responded in a FaceBook statement saying they won't know if you used them or not - it's simply seeing the profile of the workout. What you watch is irrelevant.

    I listen to music anyway.
    Ribble Stealth/SRAM Force
    2007 Specialized Allez (Double) FCN - 3
  • mattshrops
    mattshrops Posts: 1,134
    CRAIGO5000 wrote:
    I don't have any of the videos either but I'm still doing the challenge. Nate responded in a FaceBook statement saying they won't know if you used them or not - it's simply seeing the profile of the workout. What you watch is irrelevant.

    I listen to music anyway.

    In which case i'm getting tempted.... :wink:
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    mattshrops wrote:
    CRAIGO5000 wrote:
    I don't have any of the videos either but I'm still doing the challenge. Nate responded in a FaceBook statement saying they won't know if you used them or not - it's simply seeing the profile of the workout. What you watch is irrelevant.

    I listen to music anyway.

    In which case i'm getting tempted.... :wink:

    I entered via an email linkie... but can't find any entry confirmation?
  • mattshrops
    mattshrops Posts: 1,134
    Yesterday Pinchot (2sets of 5x4@ftp)
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/158726

    Today Angels (after the talk on here :D )
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160114


    I'm planning on gradually increasing length of interval as the season approaches to make my efforts more like race effort.
    Tomorrow rest day(maybe :D )

    Gotta check a few dates but it looks like i might give the sufferfest tour a go. Be good to have a decent turnout from BR (Be like sending our own team there :wink: )
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Gotta say I am constantly surprised at just how well targeted these rides are on TrainerRoad, every one seems to push me in a different direction and I love it!!

    Just finished Tallac, http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160142

    My HR has never been so high for so long, I was a bit worried to be honest. Feels good now though.

    :D
  • daveyok
    daveyok Posts: 69
    Just completed an 8 minute test after 4 weeks doing Intermediate Base I.

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160064

    FTP was 279 at the start and then I manually upped it to 285 after a couple of weeks. Pleased with 310 :D .......and then I thought about what the sufferfest vids are going to be like ..... :shock:
  • fukawitribe
    fukawitribe Posts: 109
    MarkP80 wrote:
    fukawitribe wrote:
    So - how should I start suffering ?
    Angels is a good one, I also like Fight Club.
    It's worth having a look at the profiles of the workouts within TrainerRoad, which will give you an idea of what the workout is like. I personally prefer the structured look of these two, you may prefer something completely different.

    I like the look of Fight Club too, cheers for that (and to meesterbond and mattshrops). Angels, Fight Club and Hunted ordered, might see if I can get enough miles in to have a crack at a couple of stages in the Tour.

    Thanks gents (I think).
  • bobinski
    bobinski Posts: 570
    I ran fight club tonight...
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160268
    But just could not get the sufferfest video to synch properly-it was 10-15 seconds behind the whole time. A little confusing, I sometimes got confused as to what I should be looking at when responding to tempo/power changes! I also dropped my chain twice shifting on the chainset which doesnt happen on the road. Ummh.
    Still a blast though :)
  • Wrath Rob
    Wrath Rob Posts: 2,918
    I've started to follow a training plan based on the Hunter/Allen book so I'm doing less of the published workouts and doing more with the workout creator. Its a PITA tool to use, things like changing the duration of an interval by editing the time in the top right hand box doesn't work, you can't drag a new interval to the end of your workout. Once you get the workout sorted though, its great. Hopefully I'll end up with a library of the HA workouts all set up by the end of the plan. Last night was a 1 hour tempo ride (plus warmup/down) with 10s sprints every 3 minutes. It certainly helped pass the time as the 3mins became recovery periods and we all know they never last long enough!
    FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    I'm a few weeks into the Intermediate Base II plan now, and I have to say I'm finding the rides a fair bit tougher than those in Base I. I thought at first this was just because my FTP had been raised quite a bit following the test at the start of the plan, but I also notice the following in the plan description -
    "It then allows riders to focus more intently on growing their sustainable power through consistent use of near-threshold efforts. The intensity grows somewhat sharply as suprathreshold efforts are sprinkled in on a weekly basis in the interest of growing aerobic power in minimal time"
    - I also note the comparative plan average intensity factors are 81.67 and 86.83 (not that I'm sure what that means, or its relevance).

    Has anyone else gone from Base I to Base II and experienced the same? Or indeed experienced anything different?! Maybe it's just because the Christmas holiday has interrupted my training a bit.

    Donner last night, 3x12min intervals at 95-99% FT.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160392

    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    JGSI wrote:
    mattshrops wrote:
    CRAIGO5000 wrote:
    I don't have any of the videos either but I'm still doing the challenge.
    In which case i'm getting tempted.... :wink:
    I entered via an email linkie... but can't find any entry confirmation?
    - so that's at least three people from here!

    Having only personally done a couple of Sufferfest rides, I think the following post from Nate could be quite important -
    Can I turn down the intensity of any of the videos or do I have to do them at 100%?
    Yes, you can turn them down a bit, but you still have to follow the workout and give it a good effort. The minions over at The Sufferfest will be watching...
    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • shazzz
    shazzz Posts: 1,077
    MarkP80 wrote:
    I'm a few weeks into the Intermediate Base II plan now, and I have to say I'm finding the rides a fair bit tougher than those in Base I. I thought at first this was just because my FTP had been raised quite a bit following the test at the start of the plan, but I also notice the following in the plan description -
    "It then allows riders to focus more intently on growing their sustainable power through consistent use of near-threshold efforts. The intensity grows somewhat sharply as suprathreshold efforts are sprinkled in on a weekly basis in the interest of growing aerobic power in minimal time"
    - I also note the comparative plan average intensity factors are 81.67 and 86.83 (not that I'm sure what that means, or its relevance).

    Has anyone else gone from Base I to Base II and experienced the same? Or indeed experienced anything different?! Maybe it's just because the Christmas holiday has interrupted my training a bit.

    Donner last night, 3x12min intervals at 95-99% FT.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160392

    Cheers,
    MarkP

    I've nearly finished Base 2 having completed Base 1 previously. I've been throwing in a few extra rides alongside the plan. Base 2 is definitely more demanding - the ride intervals tend to be closer to threshold than sweetspot. This is evident from the relative IF you mentioned - IF is just the ratio of target NP for the ride to FTP. So an hour at FTP would result in an IF of 1.0. The higher the IF the more demanding the workout (for a constant period of time).

    I failed to complete a couple of the 1.5 rides in the first weeks of Base II. This was for a few different reasons, but the higher IF certainly contributed! So keep at it. It's hard - but that means it's worth it!
  • Simmotino
    Simmotino Posts: 295
    MarkP80 wrote:
    I'm a few weeks into the Intermediate Base II plan now, and I have to say I'm finding the rides a fair bit tougher than those in Base I. I thought at first this was just because my FTP had been raised quite a bit following the test at the start of the plan, but I also notice the following in the plan description -
    "It then allows riders to focus more intently on growing their sustainable power through consistent use of near-threshold efforts. The intensity grows somewhat sharply as suprathreshold efforts are sprinkled in on a weekly basis in the interest of growing aerobic power in minimal time"
    - I also note the comparative plan average intensity factors are 81.67 and 86.83 (not that I'm sure what that means, or its relevance).

    Has anyone else gone from Base I to Base II and experienced the same? Or indeed experienced anything different?! Maybe it's just because the Christmas holiday has interrupted my training a bit.

    Donner last night, 3x12min intervals at 95-99% FT.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/160392

    Cheers,
    MarkP

    Pretty much at the same point as you (I've got Donner tomorrow) and yes, Base II is harder than Base I, as shazzz has explained so eloquently.

    Not only is it the increase in IF across the rides, it's also the jump in FTP level. I'd wager Base I to Base II is generally the largest FTP change between plans due to most starting out with Base I so regaining whatever form they had over those first 6 weeks as oppose to purely an improvement in FTP. The nature of Base II as well will mean the legs feel it more compared to the targets for Base I.

    I haven't failed to finish any on Base II as yet, although the first week was VERY tough going (I went from a sketchy 260 FTP to 320 on the re-test) but the legs are 'tuning in' as it were and now I have additional rides penned in for the Wednesday each week just to roll the legs over.

    Donner looks like it'll be a toughie and then it's The Thumb on Saturday morning, which looks like it may kill me! :shock:

    Feels good to be pushed though :wink:
  • Roubaixsl3
    Roubaixsl3 Posts: 48
    I'm wondering whether to continue on the Experienced century high volume plan or switch to something that will work me at/near FTP for longer. I just don't feel I'm benefiting from the longer duration/lower output sessions, but is that just my perception ?. My goal is to be able to do 100 mile sportives at a higher average speed than previously, hence choosing the century plan. I have good aerobic fitness anyway, it's my legs that pack in normally, so can I improve on this by hitting the higher output workouts ?. I don't want to waste weeks of training only to find I'm no quicker than last year. I didn't follow one of the plans for the first 2 months I just concentrated on improving my FTP, don't want all that effort to go to waste now.
  • Simmotino
    Simmotino Posts: 295
    The longer rides will get your legs used to the prolonged efforts (and your a**e time in the saddle! :wink: ) so they most likely will be benefitting you.

    If you don't feel there is enough effort involved, perhaps bump the workouts to 105/110% of FTP so that you are still running to the plan but at a higher effort load.
  • chazh
    chazh Posts: 33
    Hi, maybe someone can offer a little advice to a relatively new TrainerRoad user. I signed up towards the end of last year and have been working through the Intermediate Base I Plan, which I've certainly been feeling the benefit of. I'm about to finish that this week, and will then have an enforced break from the bike for about two weeks due to travel. Once I'm back I'll look to get on to a new plan - and that's where the question comes in.

    My main aim for this year is a number of sportives, and in general increasing the length and duration of the rides I do; do you think I would be sensible in moving to one of the Novice Century plans next, or would I see more benefit from doing Base II? I know there's not really a 'right' answer, but I'd be interested in any opinions.

    What are the strengths / weaknesses of those two plans compared to each other?

    Thanks
    Chaz
  • Roubaixsl3
    Roubaixsl3 Posts: 48
    Simmotino wrote:
    The longer rides will get your legs used to the prolonged efforts (and your a**e time in the saddle! :wink: ) so they most likely will be benefitting you.

    If you don't feel there is enough effort involved, perhaps bump the workouts to 105/110% of FTP so that you are still running to the plan but at a higher effort load.
    The intervals at or just below FTP are pushing me really hard so scaling up the entire workout is no use. I've done Window twice now and just increased the effort during the low output efforts. This makes it feel more like an endurance ride but maybe I'm still missing the point and should stick to the prescribed efforts otherwise may be over doing it. I need convincing about the science of lower effort workouts with longer durations.
  • Simmotino
    Simmotino Posts: 295
    Roubaixsl3 wrote:
    Simmotino wrote:
    The longer rides will get your legs used to the prolonged efforts (and your a**e time in the saddle! :wink: ) so they most likely will be benefitting you.

    If you don't feel there is enough effort involved, perhaps bump the workouts to 105/110% of FTP so that you are still running to the plan but at a higher effort load.
    The intervals at or just below FTP are pushing me really hard so scaling up the entire workout is no use. I've done Window twice now and just increased the effort during the low output efforts. This makes it feel more like an endurance ride but maybe I'm still missing the point and should stick to the prescribed efforts otherwise may be over doing it. I need convincing about the science of lower effort workouts with longer durations.
    If the intervals are pushing you hard, then they will be working and the recovery intervals are there for just that purpose and to avoid over stressing your legs. If the intervals begin to get easier, then you know you are beginning to reap the benefits.

    There are probably a hundred and one different approaches to achieve what you are after but increasing power - and the length of time for which you can maintain that power - will certainly be one of them.
  • Roubaixsl3
    Roubaixsl3 Posts: 48
    Simmotino wrote:
    Roubaixsl3 wrote:
    Simmotino wrote:
    The longer rides will get your legs used to the prolonged efforts (and your a**e time in the saddle! :wink: ) so they most likely will be benefitting you.

    If you don't feel there is enough effort involved, perhaps bump the workouts to 105/110% of FTP so that you are still running to the plan but at a higher effort load.
    The intervals at or just below FTP are pushing me really hard so scaling up the entire workout is no use. I've done Window twice now and just increased the effort during the low output efforts. This makes it feel more like an endurance ride but maybe I'm still missing the point and should stick to the prescribed efforts otherwise may be over doing it. I need convincing about the science of lower effort workouts with longer durations.
    If the intervals are pushing you hard, then they will be working and the recovery intervals are there for just that purpose and to avoid over stressing your legs. If the intervals begin to get easier, then you know you are beginning to reap the benefits.

    There are probably a hundred and one different approaches to achieve what you are after but increasing power - and the length of time for which you can maintain that power - will certainly be one of them.
    Agree about the recovery intervals, however on Window, there's a 20 minute effort at relatively low output, followed by three sub-FTP 10 minute intervals with 5 minutes recovery inbetween, then another 20 minute low output slog. It's the 20 minute efforts that seem a bit pointless to me, they're too long for recovery and too low an output for any power benefit. I know it's not an exact science, I'll just play around with the efforts to ensure I feel that I'm getting a benefit from them.
  • Roubaixsl3
    Roubaixsl3 Posts: 48
    I think I just need to be patient. The intensities do increase during the programme, I'll stick to the rules :)
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Just realized that when I updated the app to latest version, I forgot to change the default wheel circumference of 2070 to 2096 (700x23).
    Does anyone know if that means the results are lower or higher than they should have been?

    cheers
  • mattshrops
    mattshrops Posts: 1,134
    Todays effort
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/163325

    Was fairly pleased with my ability to hold that effort for the full duration.The 60min CP curve in golden cheetah always seems a bit overstimated.Now gradually filling in some gaps.

    Rested on wednesday, and not sure if it was a combination of workouts including disaster on saturday, But after doing angels on tues and being left with some residual tiredness in my legs I am now doubting whether i'll be able to complete the sufferfest tour. Suck it and see for now i guess.

    Anyhoo heavy snow forecast i can feel a Disaster coming on saturday. See if i can last longer than last week :wink:

    Edit- anyone for a mass Disasterhttp://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/6589?
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    Have just signed up and apparently have an FTP of 238. Whether this is any good or not is beyond me but I presume this is a starting point for training and something that I hope to increase as I follow a plan.

    Anyone any recommendations for a decent plan to start with? (I'm sure this has been done to death, so apologies, but haven't got time to trawl through the 3 million pages :mrgreen: )

    Thanks
  • Simmotino
    Simmotino Posts: 295
    In short, Base I ;)

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