The official TrainerRoad thread

daniel_b

:shock: I have a 0.97 IF 1hr workout scheduled for Wednesday, pretty certain I have never completed one that high before, 0.95 at a guess.

San Joaquin +3 is 6 sets of 4-5x50-second repeats at 130% FTP with a brief 20 seconds of active recovery following each repeat.

3 minutes of recovery fall between each set of intervals.

I'm hoping the short 50 second bursts mean I can grit my way through them, we shall see.

schayaraks

courtmed wrote:

anyone got a free trial code for TR I could have? I have been enjoying Zwift but I've read too many, well-researched, criticisms of their plans to put my faith in them so I'm planning to move to TR, assuming a free trial goes well

If nobody's sent you one yet, PM me your email address.

daniel_b

Had a far more successful FTP Ramp test on Monday, managed to force my way through the 20 minute barrier - all be it just.

Pretty happy with the figure it spat out, just added on less than 1% still.

Have ridden two hard workouts since, and have completed them successfully with no backspins, or stops, so think I am in the vicinity.

Started trying to find ways to boost power, so started a few 'strength' free weight exercises yesterday lunchtime - squats and the like, bloody hell my legs are feeling it today, what with two hard workouts two mornings in a row as well

Am fully aware there is plenty of evidence that says it makes jack all difference, and it's ALL about time on the bike, but am merely trying it for an experiment to see if it yields anything, as I'm sure we all react differently.

moscowflyer

Had a few months off but was looking at reactivating my TR account.

When did it go up to $20?!? Was $12 a month a few months ago.

bobmcstuff

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Had a few months off but was looking at reactivating my TR account.

When did it go up to $20?!? Was $12 a month a few months ago.

Mine's less than that I think - they only go up for new subscribers, existing subscribers keep whatever they signed up with.

joey54321

MoscowFlyer wrote:

Had a few months off but was looking at reactivating my TR account.

When did it go up to $20?!? Was $12 a month a few months ago.

Ouch, I am on the 'grandfather' pricing. I'd think twice at $20 a month, that's quite a bit.

moscowflyer

Too much for me given the amount I use it. A tiered structure would be better for people like me who don't need the training plans or some of the other stuff.

bobmcstuff

Yeah I think it is over the top. $12 was probably fair. Zwift is $14.99 and Sufferfest is $12.99.

I know TR has very good support and I like the training plans, but I can't see how they can justify being $5/month more than Zwift and $7/month more than Sufferfest.

bobmcstuff

Question:

Had some issues with virtual power consistency. Last night I was struggling to hold an easy workout at 70% intensity, so all in I seem to have a nominal 40-50% power loss since I packed down and set up my turbo again (an old Tacx Bluemotion). I have had nearly 3 weeks off but I wouldn't expect a 50% loss! I've ordered a Kickr anyway, been thinking about it for a while as I have had some issues in the past as well and I do use it a lot.

I am supposed to do an FTP test tomorrow (starting a new plan) but the Kickr won't arrive till next week I expect.

Should I:
a) start plan as usual with the virtual power, then retest in a week
b) start plan with guesstimate power (I know pretty well what it will be), test in a week
c) push the plan start back a week, do the whole thing on the new trainer

I guess I don't want to test after a week of training where I might have some fatigue - on the one hand it is only the first week of sweetspot base so it shouldn't be too fatiguing, but on the other hand I have had a few weeks off so I might feel it a bit more than usual...

rdt

bobmcstuff wrote:

Should I:
a) start plan as usual with the virtual power, then retest in a week
b) start plan with guesstimate power (I know pretty well what it will be), test in a week
c) push the plan start back a week, do the whole thing on the new trainer

If it was me....

Moving to a new power measurement method as you are, it's advisable to retest, so I'd be wanting to test on the new setup in a week or so's time regardless, and so I'd delay starting the plan for a week.

In the meantime, I'd schedule a bunch of workouts that would help prepare me for the test: not too much volume (so you're not wasted), mostly endurance level stuff, but including some VO2max work early in the week, and a day off before the test.

All of your options above are valid, but that's what I'd probably do.

slowmart

If it was me I’d test when your new set up is sorted and look to prepare for next weeks test.

bobmcstuff

Cheers... I'll probably do that, I just couldn't be arsed setting my calendar up again...

Although just got back in the office (after 3 weeks out on projects) to find I'm going away at least another 2 weeks between now and Christmas so I'll have to change it all round again anyway. Ballache.

My greatest fear is that I'll find these new, lower numbers are permanent! But I am pretty sure there's something screwy with the virtual power. This evening I just did West Vidette, easy one, and at 160 W I was at heart rates I usually associate with VO2 max! I had to bail a couple of times to rest. Before the 3 weeks off I was at 239 W FTP, so at face value I've lost probably 80-100 watts in 3 weeks which can't be credible. Never tested below 218 watts before either (I've been using this exact setup since 2016), although I have had issues in the past where I've been quite suspicious of the numbers.

slowmart

Deleting and resetting the TrainerRoad calendar is a 1 minute job at most.

Do it through a desk top and it’s straightforward and syncs again with most exported calendars

https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-u ... r-Calendar


Good luck with the training, BTW you doing the disaster day workout?

bobmcstuff

Christ. I'd heard of Disaster but not Disaster Day...

If I'm around I might think about it. I think I might be getting back from Singapore that Saturday, so I probably won't be in any state to do a 4h15, 265 TSS workout!

bobmcstuff

Completed my FTP test today (just because it was a good time in my schedule) on the new Kickr, 223 watts which is within 5 watts of my estimate. So I conclude that despite the relatively infrequent blips, virtual power has served me really well for the past 3 years.

I tried to trace the problem I was having (basically 160 watts being VO2 max effort levels...), I think I narrowed it down to the roller tension, my wife took the trainer down while I wasn't there and she did it by winding off the roller tension rather than using the lever. I probably could have sorted it with a bit of trial and error, but I had been looking for an excuse to upgrade for a while...

The smart-ness of it is way better than my old dumb trainer, it is much better than faffing around with gears and cadence trying to get the right power levels. Basically just get on and ride, let TrainerRoad do the rest!

bobmcstuff

Seems to be working - I do West Vidette quite a bit as a calorie burner/filler in between the other rides, so it's an easy way to see trends. Since the FTP test I have done it 4 times and my average HR and Strava relative effort score have gone down each time:

29/10 141 bpm / 30 relative effort
31/10 137 bpm / 25 relative effort
06/11 135 bpm / 21 relative effort
08/11 130 bpm / 12 relative effort

Also did Monitor yesterday and my HR was only just tickling what I normally expect sweetspot to be (and that was with a hangover...)

What's people's opinions on re-testing mid block? Since they ramp the TSS up during the block anyway, I kinda worry it would make the end of the block very hard?

slowmart

It depends on how you’re finding the workouts?

You can always increase the intensity a couple of percentage points and see how you go. If your compliance, rest and nutrition are dialled in you have a good base line to re test your FTP. Don’t forget it’s the accumulative effect of the training stress that you need to consider going into the following plans.

I’m in my second week of SSB2MV and the weekend workouts do hurt. A lot. I’ll add for context, I had a decent bump in my FTP which as you know is a double edged sword.

bobmcstuff

Generally quite easy. Except I usually do them as soon as I get home from work quite hungry, which makes long intervals a bit draining (I'm also trying to lose weight, SSB works quite well for that for me).

I've been able to manage +3 or +5% adjustments without much difficulty.

I guess the upside of retesting would be that the bump in between SSB1 and SSB2 will end up being smaller...

bobmcstuff

slowmart said:

Deleting and resetting the TrainerRoad calendar is a 1 minute job at most.



Do it through a desk top and it’s straightforward and syncs again with most exported calendars



https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-u ... r-Calendar





Good luck with the training, BTW you doing the disaster day workout?

I was looking at this, I think I may actually do it, depending on the weather... Will decide closer to the time...

bobmcstuff

slowmart said:

It depends on how you’re finding the workouts?

You can always increase the intensity a couple of percentage points and see how you go. If your compliance, rest and nutrition are dialled in you have a good base line to re test your FTP. Don’t forget it’s the accumulative effect of the training stress that you need to consider going into the following plans.

I’m in my second week of SSB2MV and the weekend workouts do hurt. A lot. I’ll add for context, I had a decent bump in my FTP which as you know is a double edged sword.

I retested up 20 watts... Explains why the workouts were getting so easy.

Did Warlow yesterday evening (was scheduled for the weekend but I am at a beer festival on Saturday...........) and it was challenging but achievable, which I think is about right for that one ( 90 minutes with 5x 9 min over/unders - 2 min under/1 over).

bobmcstuff

Did anyone do Disaster Day?

I ended up going in an impromptu mountain biking weekend. Think I've trashed my legs just as much!

slowmart

No, last weekend before rest week of SSB2MV

handful

I normally start to think about subscribing again around this time of year and I see the price is up to $19.95 now. Has much changed since I've been away between Spring and now? I was one of the early users of TR, I'm surprised the price model is increasing so much in the face of all the competition.

bobmcstuff

Not sure I could tell you exactly what's changed since spring. The Plan Builder probably came in after then?

Big changes I can think of are plan builder, group workouts and outside workouts (obviously outside workouts probably less use over the winter...). The Android and PC apps have both had big updates.

I'm on grandfathered pricing which is much less, I think $12, so less than Zwift, although I currently pay for both.

The training plans and workouts are far and away better than what's in Zwift for serious training (IMO), and their customer service is the best in the business (having had reason to use TR, Zwift and Strava customer service in the last year) - but I agree that it is looking pretty expensive at $19.95.

slowmart

What Bob said except for the price. Seriously? Accessing their knowledge and platforms for $19.95? I stopped using TrainerRoad in Spring and recently restarted in late October and consider it great value. The podcasts offer informed and deep insights into a wide range of topics and their forum is a great place to lurk and learn.

I looked around at alternatives to see if there were any more like for like offerings, Trainingpeaks, one off plans and benchmark around the same price except for a up front purchase and limited interaction with your coach. Sufferfest to me is just too intense with questionable issues around burnout. Zwift has moved along but i can't get on with the graphics. Overall and building on Bob's points they seem a more agile business built with a genuine customer centric approach.

TrainerRoad to me has the most informed well rounded commercial offering for sustainable gains. The cash outlay is good value, although the pain you endure is the hardest payment you'll make but knowing you'll be fitter and faster at the end of the process is great return on your investment.

daniel_b

I am on the old pricing as well, which I think on an annual basis is maybe $100?

More than twice that I would struggle to justify.

I also pay a subscription to RGT (£6.99 a month), but there workouts do not currently cut it, so mostly use that site for free riding, group rides and races.

bobmcstuff

slowmart said:

What Bob said except for the price. Seriously? Accessing their knowledge and platforms for $19.95? I stopped using TrainerRoad in Spring and recently restarted in late October and consider it great value. The podcasts offer informed and deep insights into a wide range of topics and their forum is a great place to lurk and learn.

I looked around at alternatives to see if there were any more like for like offerings, Trainingpeaks, one off plans and benchmark around the same price except for a up front purchase and limited interaction with your coach. Sufferfest to me is just too intense with questionable issues around burnout. Zwift has moved along but i can't get on with the graphics. Overall and building on Bob's points they seem a more agile business built with a genuine customer centric approach.

TrainerRoad to me has the most informed well rounded commercial offering for sustainable gains. The cash outlay is good value, although the pain you endure is the hardest payment you'll make but knowing you'll be fitter and faster at the end of the process is great return on your investment.

Yeah, I mean, I think it is good value personally, and have made very good gains since 2016 when I signed up. But at $19.95 I would have to think about it a bit more carefully given I also pay for Zwift ($14.99 or whatever) and Strava ($6? maybe?).

It is possible to get real advice from a real person with TR, which is basically impossible with the other platforms.

I did use Sufferfest very briefly, but not for a long time now.

My issue with Zwift is the workouts and training plans seem fairly generic and derivative. They are a bit of an afterthought, which makes sense as their business is based on the world and the other game features. Whereas for TR, the plans/workouts are literally their whole business, and they are underpinned by enormous amounts of data about plan compliance, workout completion (failing intervals etc.) and individual progress so I trust them much more (and obviously, because I have got such good experience with them, I guess I'm bound to like them - in the 4 years I have been using it I have gone from 218 to 292 watts FTP...).

I also have a minor grumble about the way Zwift controls my trainer, in workouts there always seems to be quite a lag in the resistance hitting my trainer, and it doesn't recognise sloping intervals very well at all - whereas TR is perfect (both on the same trainer).

That and all of the broken UI issues in Zwift which they seem to have absolutely no interest in fixing. Why is there no quit to menu option - why do I have to close the whole program and restart it just to go back to the start screen... Why can't I join group rides directly rom the start screen... etc etc etc ad infinitum.

Having said that I do love Zwift for group rides and races etc.. My club are taking part in the Zwift Racing League at the moment and it's been brilliant. I usually dual-run it with TR when I am doing a workout just for something to look at.

ajkerr73

A question

Does anyone else find the "mid volume" plans not enough and the "high volume" plans far too much?

Any pragmatic solution?

Choose mid and add sessions or choose high and reduce length of some sessions?

bobmcstuff

This comes up a lot on their podcast and forum etc - The normal advice is to pick the lower volume one and supplement it rather than vice-versa.

If you look at say the difference say between LV and MV, the LV ones retains 3 hard workouts per week and supplements those.

See SSB LV1 https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/plans/145-sweet-spot-base-low-volume-i vs SSV MV1 https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/plans/147-sweet-spot-base-mid-volume-i by way of an example.

I always select LV and supplement that with outdoor riding, Zwift racing, or lower intensity rides of varying durations (Baxter etc.) - I have averaged around 10 hours a week since COVID.

The other thing you could look at is building your next plan with Plan Builder, I think you can tailor that a bit more although I have not tried it.

bobmcstuff

They've just announced Adaptive Training - closed beta at the moment.

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/introducing-adaptive-training-the-right-workout-every-time/

Sounds quite big and complicated but it basically boils down to much better tracking of an individual's power profile (i.e., not just FTP), "smart" workout recommendation based on your goals, much easier to adapt plans, auto-adapt based on workout performance, pick appropriate workouts, vary workouts etc - much less rigid (a bit like Xert I guess but I think with TR's background etc it could be really good).

Signed up for the beta, will report back!