2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

MrT

As I said on another thread Bonnascare/Ax trois domaines likely to feature.

domhopson

Crozza wrote:

No mention of Hesjedal yet, surely he will be targetting next year's TDF

Who?

sonny73

knedlicky wrote:

FJS wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Two TTs in the space of 4 stages sounds a bit odd, though.

Yep. And how do they get all the way from Morzine to Paris on the last day? Normally the penultimate day finishes somewhere near a TGV station. And loads of other big transfers there. Is this some guy on a forum having a go at designing a route?

That’s what it looks like to me, someone having a go at guessing/designing a route, but everyone can speculate and everyone does …

… in yesterday’s Dauphine Libere newspaper, there was suggestion that there would two ascents of Alpe d’Huez in the one stage (!)
and a TT around Lake Serre-Ponçon, SE of Gap – the whole circle around the lake would be about 95 km long!

I would expect journalists to have more idea/access to leaked information than guys on forums but now I’m not so sure.

They threw the idea in to the pot for this or last year's race I think it was, that maybe they would do 2 accents of the Alpe, with the first going back down the Col de Sarenne, but you can see them not wanting to take the history away of going up it just the once. And they'd have to edit 2 bend plaques!!!!
Also it was busier than ever there last year, doing 2 accents you would think would swell the crowd even more and risk more rider interference and Bertie style punch ups, which the ASO will surely want to avoid.
Still it'd be a great spectacle.

andyrr

well, the rumours of at least once up Alpe d'Huez seem to be getting firmer as we're in the process of booking a place for next year's summer holiday right now and are finding that places in the area seem to have this 'knowledge' : I thought that the usual way that the route gets confirmed is for some guys to phone round loads of French towns and see what accommodation is available during the 3 weeks of the TdF ?
Assuming ASO have actually got a definitive route in place then the hotels will have had contact from ASO and this will filter out.

Alpe d'Huez area is maybe super-puopular around this time anyway with the Marmotte and Megavalanch-DH thing.

sonny73

andyrr wrote:

well, the rumours of at least once up Alpe d'Huez seem to be getting firmer as we're in the process of booking a place for next year's summer holiday right now and are finding that places in the area seem to have this 'knowledge' : I thought that the usual way that the route gets confirmed is for some guys to phone round loads of French towns and see what accommodation is available during the 3 weeks of the TdF ?
Assuming ASO have actually got a definitive route in place then the hotels will have had contact from ASO and this will filter out.

Alpe d'Huez area is maybe super-puopular around this time anyway with the Marmotte and Megavalanch-DH thing.

It's always popular indeed, but even with those non Tour events on it's nowhere near as packed as when the Tour is there. I've been out there earlier this month when they were on and there were places to rent for sure. Several locals we spoke to said the Tour will be there next year with some certainty. Also with it being the 100th Tour and 2 years since the last visit it's a cert really you'd think.

carl_p

As a slight aside would time bonuses for stage winners increase the excitement? Dare say they have been tried before, but it strikes me that as soon as a GC rider gets a decent lead mid way through the tour then that's that.

I think until you have a number of contenders all with fairly equal ability, can TT and climb, then it will come down to spoiling tactics from the most dominant rider whatever the stages.

How about a TT on a descent with heavy time bonus.

okgo

inkyfingers wrote:

Sounds like a waste of Ventoux to me, at least from the point of view of a spectacle.

Wiggins obviously rode a very good Col d'Eze TT in paris-Nice, but would be interesting to see how he got on against pure climbers in a mountain TT. I reckon Contador would win as he can climb and TT, but I think Wiggins would beat most other "climbers" in a mountain TT as he's so good at measuring his effort.

Not about that though is it. Power to weight and being aero...Not many people better than Wiggo/Froome for that. As far as I can tell its not that contador has anything more in power stakes, just is able to accelerate and burst a lot better?

dw300

Rick Chasey wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Contador to smash the hell out of it then.

Quintana is the new Contador.

I suspect ASO have realised this "we'll give them a route and it's up to the riders to make it exciting" stuff just doesn't work. You need a route that breaks people.

I've never heard of Quintana.

Can't be that good.

"F*cking Quintana .. that creep can roll man!"

knedlicky

Here's the latest rumoured route, as per Velowire yesterday evening. The author has already since put out two updates - that stage 9 may go by Bergerac and that stage 12 may start at Vitre, however he thinks both possibilities unlikely.
If correct, ASO are trying to keep to a lot of the towns used in the 1903 Tour, which in turn could mean it will be a good Tour for sprinters.
Also, all the mountains at the end (one brief excursion into the Pyrenees doesn't count) will mean the climbers (and many of us) will have to be patient and sit through a Tour perhaps as dull as this year's sometimes was.
Have Sky made a contribution to ASO?

etape, date, départ, arrivée, remarques

1, sa. 29 juin 2013, Porto Vecchio - Bastia, 200 km
2, di. 30 juin 2013, Bastia - Ajaccio, 155 km
3, lu. 1er juillet 2013, Ajaccio - Calvi, 145 km
4, ma. 2 juillet 2013, Nice, ~20 km - CLM par équipes
5, me. 3 juillet 2013, Cagnes-sur-Mer - Marseille,
6, je. 4 juillet 2013, Aix en Provence - Montpellier,
7, ve. 5 juillet 2013, Montpellier - Lavaur ???,
8, sa. 6 juillet 2013, Toulouse ??? - ???,
9, di. 7 juillet 2013, Pau - Bordeaux,
R1, lu. 8 juillet 2013, repos à Nantes,
10, ma. 9 juillet 2013, Nantes - Saint-Malo,
11, me. 10 juillet 2013, Avranches - Mont Saint-Michel, CLM individuel
12, je. 11 juillet 2013, Fougères - Tours,
13, ve. 12 juillet 2013, départ alentours de Tours ??? - arrivée triangle Montluçon/Saint-Amand-Montrond/Moulins ???,
14, sa. 13 juillet 2013, départ triangle Montluçon/Saint-Amand-Montrond/Moulins ??? - Lyon,
15, di. 14 juillet 2013, Lyon - arrivée alentours d'Avignon ???,
16, lu. 15 juillet 2013, départ alentours d'Avignon ??? - Mont-Ventoux,
17, ma. 16 juillet 2013, Avignon - Gap,
R2, me. 17 juillet 2013, repos à Gap.
18, je. 18 juillet 2013, Gap - Alpe d'Huez, double ascension
19, ve. 19 juillet 2013, ??? - ???, remontée vers le nord dans les Alpes
20, sa. 20 juillet 2013, ??? - ???, CLM individuel (Annecy - Chambéry ?)
21, di. 21 juillet 2013, Montgeron ou Versailles - Paris Champs-Elysées

frenchfighter

Corsica is interesting. There are some tough climbs and lovely scenery there.

inkyfingers

Hopefully they will take note of what made this Vuelta route work well, which was having uphill finishes in the first week, but nothing so hard as to decide the GC until the final week.

Of course what really made the Vuelta tick was that you had 3 riders who all looked like they could have won it, that is something the organisers can't control unfortunately.

RichN95.

A time trial to Mont St Michel. I'm assuming logistics and La Manche will prevent them going all the way.

DeadCalm

10, ma. 9 juillet 2013, Nantes - Saint-Malo,

Yes please. That'll take it close to my house.

frenchfighter

Latest I think:

durhamwasp

Big rumour now that the tour will finish on the Alpe! Would be an unbelievable stage and finish!

mike6

inkyfingers wrote:

Hopefully they will take note of what made this Vuelta route work well, which was having uphill finishes in the first week, but nothing so hard as to decide the GC until the final week.

Of course what really made the Vuelta tick was that you had 3 riders who all looked like they could have won it, that is something the organisers can't control unfortunately.

Not getting at you, just my personal take, but I thought the Vuelta was a joke. Designed purely to get a Spanish winner. Lots of very steep uphill finishes. Even the TT was designed with a big climb to favour the Spanish climbers.

At least the 2012 Tour had something for everyone. Mountains, TTs, sprints, rolling stages. Had to be an all rounder to win it.

As for that cheat Contador, I noticed in the Vuelta that now he, probably, has to ride clean, he can no longer maintain his attacks. He seems to run out of steam after about 20 seconds, then the others ride back up to him.

If the 2013 Tour is loaded with a stupid amount of mountains it will just slow the whole event because the days of the EPO climbers steaming up the climbs like they don't exist are, hopefully gone for good.

thomthom

durhamwasp wrote:

Big rumour now that the tour will finish on the Alpe! Would be an unbelievable stage and finish!

An unbelievable logistic chaos that's for sure. The mountain couldn't cope the time trial in 2004 - questionable if it can manage a GT finish.

Vino'sGhost

Rick Chasey wrote:

Luz Ardiden too?

Hope so, my favourite climb.

FJS

durhamwasp wrote:

Big rumour now that the tour will finish on the Alpe! Would be an unbelievable stage and finish!

That's all based on a speculative newspaper article published 9 months ago somebody decided to retweet - not true

blazing_saddles

mike6 wrote:

Not getting at you, just my personal take, but I thought the Vuelta was a joke. Designed purely to get a Spanish winner. Lots of very steep uphill finishes. Even the TT was designed with a big climb to favour the Spanish climbers.

At least the 2012 Tour had something for everyone. Mountains, TTs, sprints, rolling stages. Had to be an all rounder to win it.

As for that cheat Contador, I noticed in the Vuelta that now he, probably, has to ride clean, he can no longer maintain his attacks. He seems to run out of steam after about 20 seconds, then the others ride back up to him.

If the 2013 Tour is loaded with a stupid amount of mountains it will just slow the whole event because the days of the EPO climbers steaming up the climbs like they don't exist are, hopefully gone for good.

So Contador is a cheat, but probably now he's not cheating. He's also not an all rounder. Rrrright.

Anyhow, as far as the Alpe finish, I thought that was from twitter land for 2014?

As the 2013 route takes shape, it is beginning to look less and less mountain heavy and more and more like your bog standard TDF fare:

# date départ arrivée remarques
1 sa. 29 juin 2013 Porto-Vecchio Bastia 200 km
2 di. 30 juin 2013 Bastia Ajaccio 155 km
3 lu. 1er juillet 2013 Ajaccio Calvi 145 km
4 ma. 2 juillet 2013 Nice Nice ~20 km - CLM par équipes
5 me. 3 juillet 2013 Cagnes-sur-Mer Marseille
6 je. 4 juillet 2013 Aix-en-Provence Montpellier
7 ve. 5 juillet 2013 Montpellier Albi
8 sa. 6 juillet 2013 Castres Ax-3 Domaines
9 di. 7 juillet 2013 Saint-Girons Bagnères-de-Bigorre
R1 lu. 8 juillet 2013 repos à Nantes
10 ma. 9 juillet 2013 Nantes Saint-Malo
11 me. 10 juillet 2013 Avranches Mont Saint-Michel CLM individuel
12 je. 11 juillet 2013 Fougères Tours
13 ve. 12 juillet 2013 Tours Saint-Amand-Montrond
14 sa. 13 juillet 2013 Saint-Pourçain-sur-Sioule Lyon
15 di. 14 juillet 2013 Lyon (Givors) Mont-Ventoux
R2 lu. 15 juillet 2013 repos dans le Vaucluse (Orange & Avignon)
16 ma. 16 juillet 2013 Vaison-la-Romaine Gap
17 me. 17 juillet 2013 Embrun Chorges CLM individuel
18 je. 18 juillet 2013 Gap Alpe d'Huez (double ascension)
19 ve. 19 juillet 2013 Bourg d'Oisans Le Grand Bornand
20 sa. 20 juillet 2013 Annecy ??? ???
21 di. 21 juillet 2013 Montgeron ou Versailles Paris Champs-Elysées

pat1cp

frenchfighter wrote:

Corsica is interesting. There are some tough climbs and lovely scenery there.

and loads of dog sh!t everywhere when I visited a couple of years ago.

mike6

Blazing Saddles wrote:

mike6 wrote:

Not getting at you, just my personal take, but I thought the Vuelta was a joke. Designed purely to get a Spanish winner. Lots of very steep uphill finishes. Even the TT was designed with a big climb to favour the Spanish climbers.

At least the 2012 Tour had something for everyone. Mountains, TTs, sprints, rolling stages. Had to be an all rounder to win it.

As for that cheat Contador, I noticed in the Vuelta that now he, probably, has to ride clean, he can no longer maintain his attacks. He seems to run out of steam after about 20 seconds, then the others ride back up to him.

If the 2013 Tour is loaded with a stupid amount of mountains it will just slow the whole event because the days of the EPO climbers steaming up the climbs like they don't exist are, hopefully gone for good.

So Contador is a cheat, but probably now he's not cheating. He's also not an all rounder. Rrrright.

Anyhow, as far as the Alpe finish, I thought that was from twitter land for 2014?

As the 2013 route takes shape, it is beginning to look less and less mountain heavy and more and more like your bog standard TDF fare:

# date départ arrivée remarques
1 sa. 29 juin 2013 Porto-Vecchio Bastia 200 km
2 di. 30 juin 2013 Bastia Ajaccio 155 km
3 lu. 1er juillet 2013 Ajaccio Calvi 145 km
4 ma. 2 juillet 2013 Nice Nice ~20 km - CLM par équipes
5 me. 3 juillet 2013 Cagnes-sur-Mer Marseille
6 je. 4 juillet 2013 Aix-en-Provence Montpellier
7 ve. 5 juillet 2013 Montpellier Albi
8 sa. 6 juillet 2013 Castres Ax-3 Domaines
9 di. 7 juillet 2013 Saint-Girons Bagnères-de-Bigorre
R1 lu. 8 juillet 2013 repos à Nantes
10 ma. 9 juillet 2013 Nantes Saint-Malo
11 me. 10 juillet 2013 Avranches Mont Saint-Michel CLM individuel
12 je. 11 juillet 2013 Fougères Tours
13 ve. 12 juillet 2013 Tours Saint-Amand-Montrond
14 sa. 13 juillet 2013 Saint-Pourçain-sur-Sioule Lyon
15 di. 14 juillet 2013 Lyon (Givors) Mont-Ventoux
R2 lu. 15 juillet 2013 repos dans le Vaucluse (Orange & Avignon)
16 ma. 16 juillet 2013 Vaison-la-Romaine Gap
17 me. 17 juillet 2013 Embrun Chorges CLM individuel
18 je. 18 juillet 2013 Gap Alpe d'Huez (double ascension)
19 ve. 19 juillet 2013 Bourg d'Oisans Le Grand Bornand
20 sa. 20 juillet 2013 Annecy ??? ???
21 di. 21 juillet 2013 Montgeron ou Versailles Paris Champs-Elysées

Yes, well done, you read what I said almost correctly. Now Contador is "probably" not cheating he cant maintain his attacks on the steep climbs. I did not say Contador was not an all rounder, I said the Vuelta was designed to produce a Spanish winner.
Also, we will see how good Contador is next year when It is more difficult for him to cheat.

Vino'sGhost

:roll:

DavidCr

FJS wrote:

durhamwasp wrote:

Big rumour now that the tour will finish on the Alpe! Would be an unbelievable stage and finish!

That's all based on a speculative newspaper article published 9 months ago somebody decided to retweet - not true

And another thing ... the 2013Alpe d'Huez duathlon is to be held on the same day as the last stage of the Tour.

frenchfighter

They need to get some creativity. L'Aple de Huez is not the best thing in the World.

greasedscotsman

frenchfighter wrote:

They need to get some creativity. L'Aple de Huez is not the best thing in the World.

What would you suggest?

frenchfighter

I haven't cared to think about it much. There are 'specialists' who have been in the sport for decades who should be able to sort this out and know French terrain and possibilities. But everytime the l'Alpe is brought out people seem to think it really special.

I'm sure if I thought about it I could suggest a few good parcours.

Gazzetta67

frenchfighter wrote:

I haven't cared to think about it much. There are 'specialists' who have been in the sport for decades who should be able to sort this out and know French terrain and possibilities. But everytime the l'Alpe is brought out people seem to think it really special.

I'm sure if I thought about it I could suggest a few good parcours.

+1 If they are going to use Alpe d Huez then i hope they barrier it off than the usual last 2kms, There are too many halfwits and sozzled fans running alongside...hey look at me am on camera. Not holding my breath for next year's tour as this year was most boring one ever with team radio controlled suddenly having ALL their team on form at the same time :roll:

hammerite

DavidCr wrote:

And another thing ... the 2013Alpe d'Huez duathlon is to be held on the same day as the last stage of the Tour.

Very good point.

Frenchie I'm not sure it's the climb itself that makes it special, more the fact that people like going there to watch the race - including the beered up Dutch that Gazetta refers to. Lots of people are saying twice up Alpe is too hard, yet I'd say it's not as hard as when they practically use the Marmotte route for the race.

I don't think it matters too much about alternative terrain available, AdH are prepared to stick up the money to host a finish every couple of years, logistically it's a well rehearsed routine, I guess for ASO it wins on all accounts.

Richmond Racer

hammerite wrote:

DavidCr wrote:

And another thing ... the 2013Alpe d'Huez duathlon is to be held on the same day as the last stage of the Tour.

Very good point.

Frenchie I'm not sure it's the climb itself that makes it special, more the fact that people like going there to watch the race - including the beered up Dutch that Gazetta refers to. Lots of people are saying twice up Alpe is too hard, yet I'd say it's not as hard as when they practically use the Marmotte route for the race.

I don't think it matters too much about alternative terrain available, AdH are prepared to stick up the money to host a finish every couple of years, logistically it's a well rehearsed routine, I guess for ASO it wins on all accounts.

As keeps on being repeated...next year is NOT finishing on the Alpe...its a recycled interwebz rumour from months ago