2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

245

Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    So if next year's Tour has a load of mountain stages and MTFs but is s*it what will people blame? Plus, if Wiggo goes on to win again and Froome is team leader elsewhere presumably all the anti-Wiggo brigade from this year will just put it down to doping and froome leaving to go to a cleaner team?!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross wrote:
    So if next year's Tour has a load of mountain stages and MTFs but is s*it what will people blame? Plus, if Wiggo goes on to win again and Froome is team leader elsewhere presumably all the anti-Wiggo brigade from this year will just put it down to doping and froome leaving to go to a cleaner team?!

    Wiggins won't win the Tour again.

    He's a better rider than Sastre, but this is the equivalent.

    All the main rivals not there, route & team that suit.
    _
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    So if next year's Tour has a load of mountain stages and MTFs but is s*it what will people blame? Plus, if Wiggo goes on to win again and Froome is team leader elsewhere presumably all the anti-Wiggo brigade from this year will just put it down to doping and froome leaving to go to a cleaner team?!

    Wiggins won't win the Tour again.

    He's a better rider than Sastre, but this is the equivalent.

    All the main rivals not there, route & team that suit.

    I agree re route. He'll have the team next year though. The only real rivals missing were dopers weren't they? I'm not so confident they'll be ripping up the mountains next year. Overall, he'll probably struggle to repeat on a hillier parcours, but I think the Sastre comparison is a bit unfair as he was pretty dominant this year after one of the most dominant seasons by a rider in a long, long time.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Have you seen where Sastre would place if you remove the dopers. Its interesting.

    All the rivals were there apart from Contador and Andy, and none of those rivals could leave him for dead in the mountains.

    For me, it is more whether he has the motivation to continue training hard.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    frenchfighter wrote:
    For me, it is more whether he has the motivation to continue training hard.

    This for me....

    People will always whinge about the tour route, they always have done and they always will. You could cut Lichtblicks's thread from this year and paste it every year from now until kingdom come! This time next year we ll have edited out all of the standard riding along the valleys and just have the Sagans, the Voecklers, the Cavs, the Froomegates etc etc and we ll think it was great!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • symo
    symo Posts: 1,743
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Have you seen where Sastre would place if you remove the dopers. Its interesting.

    All the rivals were there apart from Contador and Andy, and none of those rivals could leave him for dead in the mountains.

    For me, it is more whether he has the motivation to continue training hard.

    Insert missing name :

    Where Frank is; his brother .. ... . . . . is never too far away.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    we are the proud, the few, Descendents.

    Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    symo wrote:
    Insert missing name :

    Where Frank is; his brother .. ... . . . . is never too far away.

    Steve?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I'll be honest I'd be surprised if Contador was any slower.


    Andy, perhaps, but I think there's time for him to get it together and be #2 to Contador again.
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I'll be honest I'd be surprised if Contador was any slower.


    Andy, perhaps, but I think there's time for him to get it together and be #2 to Contador again.

    Right. If Contador rides he is taking them out. He will be faster next Tour.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    And not long now - he is riding Eneco Tour.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Spiny_Norman
    Spiny_Norman Posts: 128
    The Inner Ring made an interesting point recently about Wiggins - he didn't just win the race in the TTs, he gained time on everyone bar Froome (who nicked 4s at Belles Filles, IIRC) in the mountains as well. The competition next year might be stronger, and his rivals might be in better form, but a hilly Tour shouldn't necessarily mean he won't be very competitive.

    That's 12 months away, which is a long time for form to change, but it's worth bearing in mind.
    N00b commuter with delusions of competence

    FCN 11 - If you scalp me, do I not bleed?
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He also worked out without TT's and without Froome losing time due to a puncture, Froome would have won.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Well we all know that removing TTs to calculate the time gaps isn't very clever way of looking at race results.

    Did he work out how much time Froome would have lost if he hadn't had his fill of Italy's finest...
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Well how about taking out all of the hills and mountains too? What would have happened then? :roll:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Crozza
    Crozza Posts: 991
    No mention of Hesjedal yet, surely he will be targetting next year's TDF
  • Spiny_Norman
    Spiny_Norman Posts: 128
    iainf72 wrote:
    He also worked out without TT's and without Froome losing time due to a puncture, Froome would have won.
    Well yes, we know that - by a full 2s (I got it wrong above when I said 4). It might have been more if they'd been racing each other, but we don't know, and Brad had no need to view him as a threat, because of the puncture, TT gains and team status. The point is that it's rather more complicated than "Wiggins can TT, there were lots of TT kms and not many MTFs, which is why he won".

    If we're taking this approach, you could extrapolate this year's difference from TTs and the difference from the mountains and conclude that even a single TT of any length would give Wiggins enough of an advantage to win, however many mountains you throw in.

    That's not true either, of course, but the point was that on current form, a particularly hilly Tour wouldn't exactly rule Wiggins out. I think it's a tempting line of thought, but it doesn't sit easily with the facts.
    N00b commuter with delusions of competence

    FCN 11 - If you scalp me, do I not bleed?
  • epc06
    epc06 Posts: 216
    Would appear so if this is to be believed...

    Etape 1 : Porto Vecchio - Bastia
    Etape 2 : Bastia - Ajaccio
    Etape 3 : Ajaccio - Calvi
    Etape 4 : CLM par équipe Nice
    Etape 5 : Cagnes sur Mer - Fréjus (Valloné par l'arrière pays)
    Etape 6 : Aix en Provence - Montpellier (par la Camargue)
    Etape 7 : Béziers - Toulouse
    Etape 8 : Toulouse - Plateau de Beille (Agnès-Lers-Plateau de Beille)
    Etape 9 : St Gaudens - St Lary Soulan (Menté-Portillon-Peyresourde-Azet)
    REPOS
    Etape 10 : Pau - Bordeaux
    Etape 11 : Saintes - Nantes
    Etape 12 : Bressuire - Tours
    Etape 13 : Vierzon - Bourges (CLM individuel vallonné)
    Etape 14 : Vichy - St Etienne (Col du Béal - Col de la Croix de l'Homme Mort)
    Etape 15 : St Etienne - Montélimar (Col du Grand Bois-Col du Pranlet-Col de la Fayolle-Col du Benas)
    REPOS
    Etape 16 : Bédoin - Le Mont Ventoux (CLM individuel)
    Etape 17 : Sisteron - Gap (Le Collet - Col de Pontis - St Apollinaire - Côte de la Rochette)
    Etape 18 : Gap - L'Alpe d'Huez (Col d'Izoard - Col du Lautaret - L'Alpe d'Huez)
    Etape 19 : Grenoble - Annecy (Col de Portes-Col du Cucheron-Col du Granier-Le Revard-Crêt de Chatillon)
    Etape 20 : Annemasse - Morzine (Col de Sassel-Col de l'Avenaz-Col de la Ramaz-Col de Joux Plane)
    Etape 21 : Montargis - Paris
  • Monty Zoncolan
    Monty Zoncolan Posts: 341
    Wherer is that from EPC06?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ITT up Ventoux?!
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ITT up Ventoux?!

    Love it.

    Would suit Wiggins ; )
    Contador is the Greatest
  • pb21
    pb21 Posts: 2,171
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ITT up Ventoux?!

    Awesome!
    Mañana
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Sounds like a waste of Ventoux to me, at least from the point of view of a spectacle.

    Wiggins obviously rode a very good Col d'Eze TT in paris-Nice, but would be interesting to see how he got on against pure climbers in a mountain TT. I reckon Contador would win as he can climb and TT, but I think Wiggins would beat most other "climbers" in a mountain TT as he's so good at measuring his effort.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Sounds like a waste of Ventoux to me, at least from the point of view of a spectacle.

    Wiggins obviously rode a very good Col d'Eze TT in paris-Nice, but would be interesting to see how he got on against pure climbers in a mountain TT. I reckon Contador would win as he can climb and TT, but I think Wiggins would beat most other "climbers" in a mountain TT as he's so good at measuring his effort.

    Wind on the Ventoux can ruin a spectacle.

    Mountain TTs are pretty spectacular.

    I still remember '05 Alp vividly.
    _
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Sounds like a waste of Ventoux to me, at least from the point of view of a spectacle.

    Wiggins obviously rode a very good Col d'Eze TT in paris-Nice, but would be interesting to see how he got on against pure climbers in a mountain TT. I reckon Contador would win as he can climb and TT, but I think Wiggins would beat most other "climbers" in a mountain TT as he's so good at measuring his effort.

    Wind on the Ventoux can ruin a spectacle.

    Mountain TTs are pretty spectacular.

    I still remember '05 Alp vividly.

    That was in '04. :wink:
  • derbygrimpeur
    derbygrimpeur Posts: 822
    TTT is back :)

    I like the sounds of it, especially the Mont Ventoux TT.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Sounds like a waste of Ventoux to me, at least from the point of view of a spectacle.

    Wiggins obviously rode a very good Col d'Eze TT in paris-Nice, but would be interesting to see how he got on against pure climbers in a mountain TT. I reckon Contador would win as he can climb and TT, but I think Wiggins would beat most other "climbers" in a mountain TT as he's so good at measuring his effort.

    Wind on the Ventoux can ruin a spectacle.

    Mountain TTs are pretty spectacular.

    I still remember '05 Alp vividly.

    That was in '04. :wink:

    Quite right.
    _
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I still remember '05 Alp vividly.

    That was in '04. :wink:

    Quite right.

    I should know because...

    wait for it...


    I was there! :D
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Two TTs in the space of 4 stages sounds a bit odd, though.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    afx237vi wrote:
    Two TTs in the space of 4 stages sounds a bit odd, though.

    Yep. And how do they get all the way from Morzine to Paris on the last day? Normally the penultimate day finishes somewhere near a TGV station. And loads of other big transfers there. Is this some guy on a forum having a go at designing a route?
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    FJS wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Two TTs in the space of 4 stages sounds a bit odd, though.
    Yep. And how do they get all the way from Morzine to Paris on the last day? Normally the penultimate day finishes somewhere near a TGV station. And loads of other big transfers there. Is this some guy on a forum having a go at designing a route?
    That’s what it looks like to me, someone having a go at guessing/designing a route, but everyone can speculate and everyone does …

    … in yesterday’s Dauphine Libere newspaper, there was suggestion that there would two ascents of Alpe d’Huez in the one stage (!)
    and a TT around Lake Serre-Ponçon, SE of Gap – the whole circle around the lake would be about 95 km long!

    I would expect journalists to have more idea/access to leaked information than guys on forums but now I’m not so sure.

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