Tdf Stage 9 *Spoiler*

pb21

I would expect Evans and Nibali to be having words tomorrow!

jonginge

I did wonder during the vuelta whether the initial 'british tour winner within 5 years' chat from sky was a reference to the data they had from Froome.

luckao

pb21 wrote:

I would expect Evans and Nibali to be having words tomorrow!

They could pay Renshaw to nut him a few times.

bigmat

emadden wrote:

BigMat wrote:

I think Froome will toe the line this year. To be fair, he'd find it hard taking two minutes out of Wiggins without any team support and with another 50km of time trial to come. Unless Wiggins shows serious signs of weakness, 2nd place will be his target for this year. Next year, though, will be a whole different story. Could be very interesting!

Well, I would say that without Froome, Wiggins only has Richie - I dont think Rogers will be there. Also, if Froome made a move, I suspect other teams would jump on the bandwagon... If he does make a move though, it wouldnt be explicit... more like an opportunistic move to "chase down a break" or something like that. Another big (motivating) factor is what teams have waved contracts in front of Froome this week, and how much!

That's true on the actual mountain stage where this hypothetical mutiny might take place, but what about all the other stages still to come? Unless Froome makes a totally clean move, taking yellow and claiming team leadership, he'll be in a very awkward no-man's land. I don't think that will appeal to him, especially as (to me at least) its looking increasingly likely that he will win the tour in the future and may well have an unarguable claim to challenge next year (think Riis / Ullrich dynamic).

Pross

Can't see Froome going from Sky. He re-signed after the Vuelta last year. I suspect he knows that Wiggins won't be around much longer and then it will be his turn. I would have thought he'll get team leadership at the Giro next year though. Cav is going to be on his own for the forseeable future when it comes to TdF stage wins and again I am sure he knew the score when he took the job.

Yellow Peril

There is no point both Froome and Wiggo smashing each other to bits. If Wiggo gets into difficulty they will surely then give Froome a free hand. TBH Wiggo only has to hold station until the next TT where current form shows he'll snatch more time.

Bakunin

pb21 wrote:

I would expect Evans and Nibali to be having words tomorrow!

Yes, but their problem is that they climb very similar to Wiggo. No explosive accelerations -- grind and grind.

Froome could be the problem here. He seems like he could ride Brad off his wheel.

Yellow Peril

Bakunin wrote:

pb21 wrote:

I would expect Evans and Nibali to be having words tomorrow!

Yes, but their problem is that they climb very similar to Wiggo. No explosive accelerations -- grind and grind.

Froome could be the problem here. He seems like he could ride Brad off his wheel.

I think that would be an issue if Froome was holding Wiggo's wheel but not with Froome doing the towing. Unless he is capable of dropping Wiggo on Alpine gradients circa 13% (which I don't think he is) then he'll just wind Wiggo up the hill and then clear off for a stage win.

I think Saturday's stage was very much like a Vuelta MTF wasn't it with a very steep finishing gradient?

Turfle

JonGinge wrote:

I did wonder during the vuelta whether the initial 'british tour winner within 5 years' chat from sky was a reference to the data they had from Froome.

They have long said that Froome had those sorts of numbers, but even they were giving up hope of him transferring it to the road. Tom Danielson-like.


Brilliant ride from him today. Wiggo and Evans about the same difference as at the Dauphine TT; with Nibali and Froome each going about a minute quicker.

Turfle

Pross wrote:

Can't see Froome going from Sky. He re-signed after the Vuelta last year. I suspect he knows that Wiggins won't be around much longer and then it will be his turn. I would have thought he'll get team leadership at the Giro next year though. Cav is going to be on his own for the forseeable future when it comes to TdF stage wins and again I am sure he knew the score when he took the job.

Plan was for Froome to help Brad at the Tour, and then lead the team at this year's Vuelta. That may have changed, but that was certainly the talk at the start of the year.

Squaggles

frenchfighter , deep down you really love Wiggo don't you ?

Pross

Turfle wrote:

Pross wrote:

Can't see Froome going from Sky. He re-signed after the Vuelta last year. I suspect he knows that Wiggins won't be around much longer and then it will be his turn. I would have thought he'll get team leadership at the Giro next year though. Cav is going to be on his own for the forseeable future when it comes to TdF stage wins and again I am sure he knew the score when he took the job.

Plan was for Froome to help Brad at the Tour, and then lead the team at this year's Vuelta. That may have changed, but that was certainly the talk at the start of the year.

Yep, but looking ahead to next year it makes sense to put him in the Giro. Especially given Sky's aim to get a foothold in Italy. It would seem to make sense to put the Spanish speaking riders from the team in the Vuelta so the hosts could interview them in their native language. How things have changed in 2 years since Lofkvist was the only real support man for Wiggins!

cal_stewart

why would Froome do over wiggin's? If he blow's that's different but lets face it, Brad's not got a lot of GT's left and Froome's only starting to come good why piss off a team that would look after you for the next 5-6 years

Scrumple

Froome blowing out Wiggo !?!

Give me a break, the man knows his job and has some honour. He's in a TEAM and he knows what that means. Besides, he isn't going to make up the time anyway. Just listen to his interviews - he knows what he is being PAID for. Unlike some footballing prima donnas he seems to get the sense that his team are employing him to do a job, not to do as he pleases.

Some of you dream too much!

rick_chasey

Scrumple wrote:

Froome blowing out Wiggo !?!

Give me a break, the man knows his job and has some honour. He's in a TEAM and he knows what that means. Besides, he isn't going to make up the time anyway. Just listen to his interviews - he knows what he is being PAID for. Unlike some footballing prima donnas he seems to get the sense that his team are employing him to do a job, not to do as he pleases.

Some of you dream too much!

Did you watch the Vuelta?

velo.2010

HMMM, Froome beats Fab by 23 seconds on Stage 9 on a lumpy course after a couple of tough days. Bertie beats Fab by only 4 seconds on Stage 18 after Cancellara makes it through the all the mountain stages in the 2009 Tour..... on a course with a 4th Cat. climb.

So we're saying a large bulky guy like Cancellara is a better TT'er after two weeks of mountains etc. to get within a few seconds of a multiple Tour champion at the end of a Tour on a hilly course versus losing 23 seconds on a 'lumpy' course after only a week of riding against a guy who has done nothing of note in a grand tour up until last year.

Is that right?

luckao

Has Cancellara been in any of the numerous crashes? If so, I'd suspect that's one reason as to why Wiggins blew his time out of the water. Millar, who definitely suffered this week, didn't exactly put in a time that's up to his usual standards.

Le Commentateur

disgruntledgoat wrote:

The profiles to come are not very inspiring for a standard GC changes at the top. To create any GC damage a rider will have to attack from a minimum of 50km out as the 'mountains' to come dont go above 7% average

I like the look of the descent into Bagneres Du Luchon, a certain Sicilian could have a real crack down that if Leakgas can stretch it out on the way up.

The alps look crap though. Tousuierre is a climb perfectly suited to Wiggins and unless they can get a gap on him on the way down the Mollard (which is horrible) he wont have to work at all on it.

Le Grand Colombier is 17 km long with sections of 12% and is reckoned one of the hardest climbs. Plus it may be raining on the descent that day (cue for a Nibali attack).

iainf72

We all know the Tour is 3 weeks right, and we're not quite half way through yet.
Lots of things can happen. Good day from one rider, bad someone else. Even the weather could play a role.

At least that's what I'm hoping, or it will be an epic snooze fest of a Tour

bigmat

velo.2010 wrote:

HMMM, Froome beats Fab by 23 seconds on Stage 9 on a lumpy course after a couple of tough days. Bertie beats Fab by only 4 seconds on Stage 18 after Cancellara makes it through the all the mountain stages in the 2009 Tour..... on a course with a 4th Cat. climb.

So we're saying a large bulky guy like Cancellara is a better TT'er after two weeks of mountains etc. to get within a few seconds of a multiple Tour champion at the end of a Tour on a hilly course versus losing 23 seconds on a 'lumpy' course after only a week of riding against a guy who has done nothing of note in a grand tour up until last year.

Is that right?

A few points:

1. Froome has always been a good time trialler, more so than a climber even.

2. Cancellara had been taking it relatively easy in the run up to that tt, rather than defending a yellow jersey.

3. Contador was faster than Canc on a fast, flat section - that's what I found surprising.

Turfle

velo.2010 wrote:

HMMM, Froome beats Fab by 23 seconds on Stage 9 on a lumpy course after a couple of tough days. Bertie beats Fab by only 4 seconds on Stage 18 after Cancellara makes it through the all the mountain stages in the 2009 Tour..... on a course with a 4th Cat. climb.

So we're saying a large bulky guy like Cancellara is a better TT'er after two weeks of mountains etc. to get within a few seconds of a multiple Tour champion at the end of a Tour on a hilly course versus losing 23 seconds on a 'lumpy' course after only a week of riding against a guy who has done nothing of note in a grand tour up until last year.

Is that right?

Froome has beaten Cancellara the last two times they raced a TT against each other.
Wiggins has beaten Cancellara the last five times.

Cancellara as unbeatable TT rider isn't true in 2012. He just lost to Fredrik blooming Kessiakoff last month.

milton50

Perfection from Wiggins. Simple as that. I can't see Evans or Nibali gaining that kind of time in normal racing (without even mentioning the extra minute they'd need for the final TT). It would need to be a terrible, terrible day for Wiggins to give up that kind of lead before Paris.

I really can't see Froome doing a number on Wiggins. At least this year. Remember we're talking about a two minute gap plus whatever Bradley could gain in the final TT. That's not just a sneaky dig at the end of a climb, that's a persistent, obvious attack. Can't see it. Even if Froome could physically put that much time into Wiggins on a climb which I doubt. Will be interesting to see what he does next year though. Will giving him a leadership role in the Vuelta and Giro keep him happy for another year?

Turfle

Froome was also struggling on the final climb yesterday, and didn't have anything to give when Evans attacked on the flat.

sherer

thanks to disgruntledgoat and Pross for answering the CLM question

keyser__soze

If Froome hadn't punctured the other day maybe the talk of him stealing the GC could've come to something.

Tom Dean

sherer wrote:

thanks to disgruntledgoat and Pross for answering the CLM question

One of them answered correctly

velo.2010

@Turtle and Bigmat. My point is Contador critics went wild after he beat Cancellara after 3 weeks of riding when we expect a GC contender to be in better shape than a pure TT'er. After one week of racing we see a guy who looks anorexic and had, frankly moderate results before 2011, beat Fab by 23 secs. Can you understand the disbelief?

bigmat

velo.2010 wrote:

@Turtle and Bigmat. My point is Contador critics went wild after he beat Cancellara after 3 weeks of riding when we expect a GC contender to be in better shape than a pure TT'er. After one week of racing we see a guy who looks anorexic and had, frankly moderate results before 2011, beat Fab by 23 secs. Can you understand the disbelief?

Not really - no rider is above suspicion I guess, but I think the performance today by Froome, whilst impressive, wasn't that surprising when you consider his Vuelta performance, the fact that he is clearly peaking perfectly for the Tour and the fact that he has always been considered a good time trialler. Good time trialler hits career best form and does well in time trial shock?

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

We all know the Tour is 3 weeks right, and we're not quite half way through yet.
Lots of things can happen. Good day from one rider, bad someone else. Even the weather could play a role.

At least that's what I'm hoping, or it will be an epic snooze fest of a Tour

Aye.
They can't all play follow the leader, now.
It's actually far better than having Evans sitting at 20 seconds and the rest within a minute and a half.
Should mean we get a few surprise moves and action starting before the final 4kms of the finish.

tailwindhome

Turfle wrote:

Cancellara as unbeatable TT rider isn't true in 2012.

Too many birthdays?