10 -42 T cassette!

YeehaaMcgee

Seems that making a cassette that could cope with 11-42 would be less effort than designing a whole new freehub to me. I mean it's actually a smaller range than 10-42.

njee20

Aye, but the fact we have 2 solutions, which both rely on an integrated freehub makes me think there's some practical reason for this.

YeehaaMcgee

Yeah, incompatibility with existing standards, bringing in more money. Planned obsolescence.

coursemyhorse

I just got a reply from Hope about their rumoured 9x36 cassette (as per this thread) and they now say quote "some time next year".

coursemyhorse

I just saw the other day that this SRAM XX1 system has started to become available. Pricing below on CRC. Hold on to your hats...

nicklouse

coursemyhorse wrote:

I just saw the other day that this SRAM XX1 system has started to become available. Pricing below on CRC. Hold on to your hats...

and you need a BB30 frame and bearings!

EH_Rob

Blimey.

Surely getting stronger legs is easier than justifying the money for this!

njee20

nicklouse wrote:

coursemyhorse wrote:

I just saw the other day that this SRAM XX1 system has started to become available. Pricing below on CRC. Hold on to your hats...

and you need a BB30 frame and bearings!

No you don't: GXP Chainset

The pricing is between X.0 and XX, as they said, it's not that bad IMO - chainset's half the price of XTR, even the rings are reasonably priced.

nicklouse

njee20 wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

coursemyhorse wrote:

I just saw the other day that this SRAM XX1 system has started to become available. Pricing below on CRC. Hold on to your hats...

and you need a BB30 frame and bearings!

No you don't: GXP Chainset

The pricing is between X.0 and XX, as they said, it's not that bad IMO.

better tell CRC they have their info worng then.

Northwind

GXP, so I guess you also have to budget for a Hope BB and converter kit for when the original BB dies as soon as it rains.

njee20

No different to X.0 or XX, can't really hold that against XX1 specifically.

better tell CRC they have their info worng then.

How? The link I posted is to a GXP XX1 chainset on CRC, and it's priced between X.0 and XX :?

bennett_346

Echo the sentiment that GXP has appauling sealing qualities.

lawman

The more I think about XX1, the more I need shimano to make a similar group The times in the hills around uni I've felt the need for one extra gear on my 1x10 more than justifies it! It's great 95% of the time, but there are still those off days every now and then!

Chunkers1980

Granny.

bluechair84

lawman wrote:

The more I think about XX1, the more I need shimano to make a similar group The times in the hills around uni I've felt the need for one extra gear on my 1x10 more than justifies it! It's great 95% of the time, but there are still those off days every now and then!

Couldn't you have a couple of chain rings? One for hangover days and one for power-up days? I have this on the Canyon as it's runnning 1x9. I actually very rarely change from the 36 to the 34 as I haven't taken it trail riding in a while.

lawman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Granny.

A double/triple is heavier, and I despise front mechs with a passion. Having 1x whatever leaves a cleaner handlebar for dropper post remotes, less cables, is lighter and less to go wrong. I can push my 1x10 up most things, and by the time I've run out of legs most people with a granny ring would be walking too. Having that extra gear would be a luxury if needed, its just one of things with benefits and other than the few compatibility issues whilst it is still new, has very few drawbacks, if any, long term. Lets not forget once it trickles down to lower level groups, not having to buy a shifter, mech and 2 or rings is a darn sight cheaper too!

Bluechair, I run a 34t and like I say its perfectly fine, but I certainly wouldn't complain about another gear!

cooldad

Not something I will ever have to worry about, as my skill level could never justify spending that much on a groupset.
TBH at my level I should just fit three speed Sturmey Archer. Those were the days...

lawman

Initial cost seems to put people of new stuff, from what I can tell, once this filters down to x7, x9 etc and shimano make their own take on the concept, if replacing the whole group there is no reason not to. it offers a huge gear range, is lighter, there is less to go wrong, the chains will be stronger and it'll be cheaper. Where are the downsides in that? The amount some people change parts on here its means the compatibility makes fook all difference!

bennett_346

10 speed components are already cheaper than their equivalent 9 speed components in a lot of cases.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

10 speed components are already cheaper than their equivalent 9 speed components in a lot of cases.

This is the thing, perhaps as 10 speed becomes more commonplace and 9 speed dies out, part stocks will go down and 9 speed might become more expensive... you never know!

Chunkers1980

Isn't that what he said?

bennett_346

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Isn't that what he said?

Yep.

lawman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Isn't that what he said?

Well some 9 speed things are more expensive, but not all, just a possibility that ALL 9 speed stuff could become more expensive.

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Isn't that what he said?

Well some 9 speed things are more expensive, but not all, just a possibility that ALL 9 speed stuff could become more expensive.

Ah i see. Maybe, but it's more in depth than that.

coursemyhorse

I agree that I think the future is the use of single chainring setups where no front mech is used. I think this kind of system like the XX1 will eventually filter down and spawn competitor systems from Shimano. Hope talked about their 9x36 cassette with their particular compatible hubs, but nothing came of it.

I think all people want is to just see an extension to 1x10/11-36, by just having a slightly wider gear spread. Whether this means going to 11 speed or whatever, the cost needs to be controlled. If they can make it compatible with 10 speed that's better for existing setups to be utilized. I don't think people are even bothered about having to run a guide. It is a nice feature of XX1 to not need one and will also surely filter down, but I am not sure I would pay a premium for it, when I can buy a setup with a suitable guide for a lot less.

It's all about getting that slightly better gear ratio spread so that 1x10 setups are less "compromised". I think Hope were onto a winner with their 9x36 cassette which could have used existing 10 speed stuff, it just needed a more expensive Hope Pro hub to match it. The cost still would have been loads cheaper than the XX1 setup where you are made to buy into the whole thing.

Bottom line is XX1 is currently £950, and building a 1x10 setup from scratch with a slightly more compromised gear ratio spread, with very decent components, can be done for say under £200. (using existing cranks).

I don't think even the most dedicated MTB fans are going to splash nearly a grand on a drivetrain components of which are the thing that will wear most on a bike. You could buy another bike for that brand new. Cutting edge tech brings cutting edge pricing though.

njee20

Bottom line is XX1 is currently £950, and building a 1x10 setup from scratch with a slightly more compromised gear ratio spread, with very decent components, can be done for say under £200.

At a similar weight? XX1 is super light, to match it you're looking at XX or XTR, and what's the price comparison there.... oh, about the same.

It will filter down, and will be heavier, but XX1 isn't a case of 'this is the cheapest we could go', it's top end kit, with a price to match.

I don't think even the most dedicated MTB fans are going to splash nearly a grand on a drivetrain components of which are the thing that will wear most on a bike. You could buy another bike for that brand new. Cutting edge tech brings cutting edge pricing though.

You miss the point, as above. But yes, most won't, but a number will. If I was building a new race bike for next year it would have XX1 no doubt about it. As it is I'm half tempted to change, got some DT240s I could use, probably get decent money for all my XTR.

lawman

coursemyhorse wrote:

I agree that I think the future is the use of single chainring setups where no front mech is used. I think this kind of system like the XX1 will eventually filter down and spawn competitor systems from Shimano. Hope talked about their 9x36 cassette with their particular compatible hubs, but nothing came of it.

I think all people want is to just see an extension to 1x10/11-36, by just having a slightly wider gear spread. Whether this means going to 11 speed or whatever, the cost needs to be controlled. If they can make it compatible with 10 speed that's better for existing setups to be utilized. I don't think people are even bothered about having to run a guide. It is a nice feature of XX1 to not need one and will also surely filter down, but I am not sure I would pay a premium for it, when I can buy a setup with a suitable guide for a lot less.

It's all about getting that slightly better gear ratio spread so that 1x10 setups are less "compromised". I think Hope were onto a winner with their 9x36 cassette which could have used existing 10 speed stuff, it just needed a more expensive Hope Pro hub to match it. The cost still would have been loads cheaper than the XX1 setup where you are made to buy into the whole thing.

Bottom line is XX1 is currently £950, and building a 1x10 setup from scratch with a slightly more compromised gear ratio spread, with very decent components, can be done for say under £200. (using existing cranks).

I don't think even the most dedicated MTB fans are going to splash nearly a grand on a drivetrain components of which are the thing that will wear most on a bike. You could buy another bike for that brand new. Cutting edge tech brings cutting edge pricing though.

The trouble with the 9t cog is its not ideal for pedaling, the 10t seems from srams research to be more suitable, as they pretty much had 9-36 10 speed stuff quite far along in development. I think they also saw the monetary benefits of yet another new standard, but like I said if buying new there is no problem with the compatibility. For people who change bikes every 5 years or so, its not really going to be justified a 1x10 system can be done very cheaply as you say, I changed my hardtail to full 1x10 xt using the exiating cranks for less £150. But others who change bikes more frequently, and this forum is a damn good example of that, there should be no issues.

coursemyhorse

njee20 wrote:

Bottom line is XX1 is currently £950, and building a 1x10 setup from scratch with a slightly more compromised gear ratio spread, with very decent components, can be done for say under £200.

At a similar weight? XX1 is super light, to match it you're looking at XX or XTR, and what's the price comparison there.... oh, about the same.

It will filter down, and will be heavier, but XX1 isn't a case of 'this is the cheapest we could go', it's top end kit, with a price to match.

I don't think even the most dedicated MTB fans are going to splash nearly a grand on a drivetrain components of which are the thing that will wear most on a bike. You could buy another bike for that brand new. Cutting edge tech brings cutting edge pricing though.

You miss the point, as above. But yes, most won't, but a number will. If I was building a new race bike for next year it would have XX1 no doubt about it. As it is I'm half tempted to change, got some DT240s I could use, probably get decent money for all my XTR.

I understand part of the premium is the low weight yes. Of course it's not "the cheapest we could go" as you say. I'm saying I think we would all like to see something pitched at XT/X9 level/weight/pricing that gives a better spread for a 1x10 setup. It's just disappointing to see something finally come out and be way out of reach for the majority of people in terms of pricing, because they pitched it as high end. It's not that technologically advanced. They have a monopoly though so can do this. We need competition from Hope/Shimano/whoever in the market for prices to come down.

lawman

coursemyhorse wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Bottom line is XX1 is currently £950, and building a 1x10 setup from scratch with a slightly more compromised gear ratio spread, with very decent components, can be done for say under £200.

At a similar weight? XX1 is super light, to match it you're looking at XX or XTR, and what's the price comparison there.... oh, about the same.

It will filter down, and will be heavier, but XX1 isn't a case of 'this is the cheapest we could go', it's top end kit, with a price to match.

I don't think even the most dedicated MTB fans are going to splash nearly a grand on a drivetrain components of which are the thing that will wear most on a bike. You could buy another bike for that brand new. Cutting edge tech brings cutting edge pricing though.

You miss the point, as above. But yes, most won't, but a number will. If I was building a new race bike for next year it would have XX1 no doubt about it. As it is I'm half tempted to change, got some DT240s I could use, probably get decent money for all my XTR.

I understand part of the premium is the low weight yes. Of course it's not "the cheapest we could go" as you say. I'm saying I think we would all like to see something pitched at XT/X9 level/weight/pricing that gives a better spread for a 1x10 setup. It's just disappointing to see something finally come out and be way out of reach for the majority of people in terms of pricing, because they pitched it as high end. It's not that technologically advanced. They have a monopoly though so can do this. We need competition from Hope/Shimano/whoever in the market for prices to come down.

I'm pretty sure much like 2x10 XX and the 2x10 groups that followed it release, we can expect an X0/X9/X7 level version of xx1 for 2014.

What can we expect from shimano? Who knows, but it'll be at least mid 2013 before we see anything remotely similar I think. Be interesting to see what they do release though and how quickly they react, as the enduro/Am market is huge and they will miss out massively if they don't bring out something to compete.

YeehaaMcgee

coursemyhorse wrote:

I agree that I think the future is the use of single chainring setups where no front mech is used.

I'd disagree with that. Removing the front chainring will always result in reducing the total range of gear ratios, and for some areas, and some riding, that's just not a sensible thing to do.