Sky Presentation to ASO (Inevitable Doping Thread alert)
LeicesterLad
Posts: 3,908
Taken from Inner Ring:
The Wiggins defence
Some are surprised at Wiggins’s performances and in his latest piece for Sky Sports, Scottish journalist Richard Moore tells how Team Sky have even visited the offices of the Tour de France to make a presentation explaining how and why Wiggins and Team Sky are riding clean. This is an astounding act, for years “I’ve never tested positive” was the strapline but now we have a team travelling to Paris to reassure a race organiser.
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Not to bring up locked threads again but - http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 86,00.html
Sky have been to ASO with a presentation explaining why, how and what they are doing to race clean. Alas, no proper science available to us proles though...
PM me and we ll have a sweepstake to see what Bernie's response will be...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Great minds think alike and all that, but i got there first!
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Richard Moore is a little too cosy with the team for anything he says to be taken really seriously. I bet most teams reassure organisers that they are clean. Look at how happy Le Tour was with Armstrongs first win, until one of his samples was found to have EPO in it!0
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Rick Chasey wrote:NNNNOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
+1.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
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ddraver wrote:Oi! I was a whole 3 mins faster than LL, My thread should be king!
According to my computer i posted at 2.59pm, you posted at 3pm. so there. 8)0 -
Can't help but feel that this is a tad premature non?
How stupid do Sky look when (hypothetically) Cav leaves the tour early for the olympics and Wiggins has a nightmare of a week three and fails to even get onto podium...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
ASO organise Paris-Nice and the Dauphine though so they're probably a little bit interested to ensure those races were won fairly.0
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Is it this one that leaked? (caution, bad attempt to comedy coming up)
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:NNNNOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The only thing of interest is the time it must have took to write this!Contador is the Greatest0 -
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I can see the attraction(s). Not normally a fan of the ginge, but i'd make an exception.
Just to derail the thread even further whenever I look at Iain's "Pierre" avatar I think of this guy:
"I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
An unprecedented move as far as I can make out, and of course a clear admission that what they have achieved looks (but not necessarily is) as dodgy as hell!ddraver wrote:Sky have been to ASO with a presentation explaining why, how and what they are doing to race clean. Alas, no proper science available to us proles though... 0 -
BikingBernie wrote:... what they have achieved looks (but not necessarily is) as dodgy as hell!
Does it?
If you make the assumption that the relatively recent idea of riders peaking once or twice in a season is due not to sports science, but due to the riders being on a doping program that is so expensive, dangerous and complicated that they can only be "extra-terrestrial" once or twice a year...
Then the conclusion is that clean riders can do what the old boys like Eddy did, and stay at a high level all season long: like Wiggins this year and Gilbert last year. Isn't it?
(Yes, I know that in the old days they were all speeding their tits off, but that's not the same as being at 60% due to massive doses of EPO)0 -
inkyfingers wrote:I can see the attraction(s). Not normally a fan of the ginge, but i'd make an exception.
Just to derail the thread even further whenever I look at Iain's "Pierre" avatar I think of this guy:
Betty (sans fat suit, natch) FTW.0 -
TimB34 wrote:BikingBernie wrote:... what they have achieved looks (but not necessarily is) as dodgy as hell!
Does it?
If you make the assumption that the relatively recent idea of riders peaking once or twice in a season is due not to sports science, but due to the riders being on a doping program that is so expensive, dangerous and complicated that they can only be "extra-terrestrial" once or twice a year...
Then the conclusion is that clean riders can do what the old boys like Eddy did, and stay at a high level all season long: like Wiggins this year and Gilbert last year. Isn't it?
(Yes, I know that in the old days they were all speeding their tits off, but that's not the same as being at 60% due to massive doses of EPO)
Don't bite. Bernie was looking to start something with (I hope) tongue in cheek reference to the "other" thread0 -
The fact that Sky believe that a presentation to the UCI in necessary suggests that they think that there are grounds for people being suspicious.TimB34 wrote:BikingBernie wrote:... what they have achieved looks (but not necessarily is) as dodgy as hell!
Does it?
I would love to see the contents of the presentation. I wonder if it makes any references to the effects of losing weight or having a swimming instead of a cycling coach?
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Shouldn't you be locking threads that have been 'derailed', rather than adding to the derailment. Or do you only do that with threads with content you don't personally like?Rick Chasey wrote:inkyfingers wrote:I can see the attraction(s). Not normally a fan of the ginge, but i'd make an exception.
Just to derail the thread even further whenever I look at Iain's "Pierre" avatar I think of this guy:
Betty (sans fat suit, natch) FTW.0 -
We're back to mediaeval witch trials again, aren't we Bernie? As in damned if you do, damned if you don't.BikingBernie wrote:
The fact that Sky believe that a presentation to the UCI in necessary suggests that they think that there are grounds for people being suspicious.TimB34 wrote:BikingBernie wrote:... what they have achieved looks (but not necessarily is) as dodgy as hell!
Does it?
I would love to see the contents of the presentation. I wonder if it makes any references to the effects of losing weight or having a swimming instead of a cycling coach?
There has been a lot of murmuring, not just on these hallowed forums, about Sky's supposed dominance. Now it may or may not be tactically the best move to try and reply specifically to that, but if they don't, there'll be muttering about omerta, if they do, well if they say they're innocent it just proves they're guilty, doesn't it? And I don't know about ayone else but I'm getting awful tired of the nudge, wink, "look how guilty they look, but of course I'm not saying they are guilty" routine
Would I be right in thinking that this gets you going more than the old LA obsession because LA's no fun any more now that no-one really believes him, whereas this gives you more of an opportunity to, let's say it bluntly, troll?0 -
And to think, I was often accused of 'trolling' when I posted up material picking holes in what Armstrong was claiming. I think you are right that I found it 'fun' to try to persuade people to have a more rational view of what Armstrong was up to, especially when the instinctive response of many was to insult me, or accuse me of 'trolling', or to try to verbally bully me into being quite, or to deliberately derail the thread (a tactic that it seems is already being applied to threads about Sky). However I am not trolling, merely following the principle which is also laid out in that article linked to on the 'Tentative new Wiggins thread':bompington wrote:Would I be right in thinking that this gets you going more than the old LA obsession because LA's no fun any more now that no-one really believes him, whereas this gives you more of an opportunity to, let's say it bluntly, troll?
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 86,00.htmlScepticism is healthier than blind faith.0 -
Yes, and of course it would be 'irrationally negative' to think that cycle sport was still rife with doping given all the 'evidence' to the contrary... :roll:ddraver wrote:Trouble is, what you re doing is cynicism, not skeptism. Skeptics accept what the evidence shows them, Cynics are irrationaly negative...0 -
Oh yes, we have the 'blood passport' now, don't we? :roll:ddraver wrote:Yep - exactly.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21336951Eur J Appl Physiol. 2011 Sep;111(9):2307-14. Epub 2011 Feb 20.
Current markers of the Athlete Blood Passport do not flag microdose EPO doping.
Ashenden M, Gough CE, Garnham A, Gore CJ, Sharpe K.
The Athlete Blood Passport is the most recent tool adopted by anti-doping authorities to detect athletes using performance-enhancing drugs such as recombinant human erythropoietin (rhEPO). This strategy relies on detecting abnormal variations in haematological variables caused by doping, against a background of biological and analytical variability. Ten subjects were given twice weekly intravenous injections of rhEPO for up to 12 weeks. Full blood counts were measured using a Sysmex XE-2100 automated haematology analyser, and total haemoglobin mass via a carbon monoxide rebreathing test. The sensitivity of the passport to flag abnormal deviations in blood values was evaluated using dedicated Athlete Blood Passport software. Our treatment regimen elicited a 10% increase in total haemoglobin mass equivalent to approximately two bags of reinfused blood. The passport software did not flag any subjects as being suspicious of doping whilst they were receiving rhEPO. We conclude that it is possible for athletes to use rhEPO without eliciting abnormal changes in the blood variables currently monitored by the Athlete Blood Passport.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... id=5222488That biological passport, which monitors blood values and urine samples over time in order to build evidence of blood manipulation and is financed in large part by the sport's elite tier of teams, was put into place to supplement traditional drug testing.
Yet according to Landis, teams and riders with enough monetary resources and sophisticated medical advice knew how to circumvent the biological passport even before its official implementation in 2007.
Landis told ESPN.com last week that during the two or three years leading up to his 2006 Tour de France victory -- subsequently nullified after he tested positive for synthetic testosterone -- he and some of his fellow riders combined strategically timed transfusions and microdoses of EPO (erythropoietin, a red blood cell booster) in order to keep their blood values constant rather than spiking and dipping.
The main difference between their methodology and that of riders in the 1990s, Landis said, was riders of his era learned to inject EPO intravenously rather than subcutaneously, as a cancer patient or someone with another grave illness would do.
When EPO is injected under the skin, it is absorbed first into soft tissue and released into the bloodstream gradually, prolonging its therapeutic effects. Injecting EPO intravenously has the same effect of boosting red blood cell count and improving oxygen processing capacity. However, the drug disperses more quickly in the bloodstream and thus becomes undetectable sooner -- especially if riders dilute their blood with an intravenous drip of saline solution or simply by drinking a lot of water after injecting it.0
