Giro Stage 17 *spoiler*

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Comments

  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    I sense it would have been a nit different had Szmyd not punctured. He would then have made the pace leaving Basso fresh to mount an attack.

    How would he have been fresh? He still has to climb the mountains.

    At the pace those guys climb you can still get a decent draft. Plus psychologically, it is good to have a teammate set the pace. Basso had to work on the front, make all the decisions about how hard to push etc. Had Smzyd been there he could have just sat on his wheel, let Smzyd crank the pace up a bit higher (which would have maybe dropped another couple of riders) then attacked with a few km to go which might have shed a couple more. I reckon it could have been just him and Pozzo by the top, but we'll never know (although we might get an insight over the weekend).
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    basso was the strongest guy on that mountain the other day

    but how much? might not be enough and if he tries to ride everyone off his wheel and can not do it then he may pay dearly... what if he over rates his ability and overcooks it?


    he has to keep doing what he is doing and hope they fall off. can LIQ ride into the weekend is another question. its all starting to get a bit hard.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mididoctors wrote:
    basso was the strongest guy on that mountain the other day

    but how much? might not be enough and if he tries to ride everyone off his wheel and can not do it then he may pay dearly... what if he over rates his ability and overcooks it?


    he has to keep doing what he is doing and hope they fall off. can LIQ ride into the weekend is another question. its all starting to get a bit hard.

    Not sure he was....
    _
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    mididoctors wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?

    yes...

    you[ryder] are close to your limit


    you don't want basso to raise the tempo.... basso eases off as he did everyone looks round.. your[ryder's] heart rate drops so you push on as though you are testing the others... basso thinks "no point riding too hard today"

    That was Bernard Hinault’s favourite tactic. If he felt bad he’d attack.

    But then again this is the guy who came up with the immortal line: “As long as I breathe, I attack”
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    greasedscotsman wrote:

    I reckon that stage was pretty full gas,

    you could be right
    don't think there was any bluffing going on at all. You either could stay with that group or not.

    doesn't mean there is no bluffing even if everyone is at the limit.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Timoid. wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?

    yes...

    you[ryder] are close to your limit


    you don't want basso to raise the tempo.... basso eases off as he did everyone looks round.. your[ryder's] heart rate drops so you push on as though you are testing the others... basso thinks "no point riding too hard today"

    That was Bernard Hinault’s favourite tactic. If he felt bad he’d attack.

    But then again this is the guy who came up with the immortal line: “As long as I breathe, I attack”

    I wonder if on one of those days where he's dying some chump whispers that to him as they pass his crumbling body?

    I really hope so. I would have. Just to p!ss him off.
    _
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?

    yes...

    you[ryder] are close to your limit


    you don't want basso to raise the tempo.... basso eases off as he did everyone looks round.. your[ryder's] heart rate drops so you push on as though you are testing the others... basso thinks "no point riding too hard today"

    That was Bernard Hinault’s favourite tactic. If he felt bad he’d attack.

    But then again this is the guy who came up with the immortal line: “As long as I breathe, I attack”

    I wonder if on one of those days where he's dying some chump whispers that to him as they pass his crumbling body?

    I really hope so. I would have. Just to p!ss him off.

    You'd sleep with one eye open forever more, however!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    basso was the strongest guy on that mountain the other day

    but how much? might not be enough and if he tries to ride everyone off his wheel and can not do it then he may pay dearly... what if he over rates his ability and overcooks it?


    he has to keep doing what he is doing and hope they fall off. can LIQ ride into the weekend is another question. its all starting to get a bit hard.

    Not sure he was....

    I'm not 100% sure myself but...etc
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    I don't know mate, pure guess work and probably completely wrong ;)

    It's interesting how everyone watched the same race and yet come up with such different view on it. Some think Basso was strongest, others Hesjedal, etc. Really looking forward to the next few stages! At least nobody said they were bored with it!
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    I would say Pozzo should he was strongest - even if it was only "last 500m" strongest...?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    basso was the strongest guy on that mountain the other day

    but how much? might not be enough and if he tries to ride everyone off his wheel and can not do it then he may pay dearly... what if he over rates his ability and overcooks it?


    he has to keep doing what he is doing and hope they fall off. can LIQ ride into the weekend is another question. its all starting to get a bit hard.

    Not sure he was....

    I'm not 100% sure myself but...etc

    Reckon Pozzo was stronger.
    _
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    I don't know mate, pure guess work and probably completely wrong ;)

    It's interesting how everyone watched the same race and yet come up with such different view on it. Some think Basso was strongest, others Hesjedal, etc. Really looking forward to the next few stages! At least nobody said they were bored with it!


    I think Basso and Rodriguez were about even, with Basso maybe shading it. If they had gone head to head properly Ryder, Zapatero and Uran would have been shedded.

    Pozzovizo? Who knows?
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    the stage raise a lot of questions that are still unanswered... look at the post count
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    right 3hrs on the road for me see you all at cavs victory celebration
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    It's interesting how everyone watched the same race and yet come up with such different view on it. Some think Basso was strongest, others Hesjedal, etc. Really looking forward to the next few stages! At least nobody said they were bored with it!

    It was a beautiful stage, and not just for the racing. I downloaded the EuroSports coverage from Cycle Torrents last night to watch at leisure. A touch over 7GB - ouch! :shock:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian ... y-hesjedal
    Contador is the Greatest
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:
    Rodriguez’s two stage wins have been ‘chipper’ level (small accelerations towards the end) - if he wants to be a worthy victor, I feel he needs to show something more to convince the Tifosi.
    Wow, tough crowd. You win this...
    t17_cortina_alt_sopr_600.jpg

    And you cry chipper! :(
    I don't mean the stage, or the victory in itself, I mean the style.

    The leading group (Basso, Pozzovivo, Uran, Rodriguez and Hesjedal) climbed the Giau in 33-50. I think that's some sort of a record. (Scarponi took 34-10)

    In 2007, Di Luca, Cunego, Simoni, Andy Schleck and Mazzoleni took 34-02, and in 2008, Menchov, Di Luca, Simoni, Contador, Bruseghin, Van den Broeck, Pellizotti, Pozzovivo, and Riccò took 34-34.
    (This timing info is from Davide Cassani)
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    knedlicky wrote:

    I don't mean the stage, or the victory in itself, I mean the style.

    The leading group (Basso, Pozzovivo, Uran, Rodriguez and Hesjedal) climbed the Giau in 33-50. I think that's some sort of a record. (Scarponi took 34-10)

    In 2007, Di Luca, Cunego, Simoni, Andy Schleck and Mazzoleni took 34-02, and in 2008, Menchov, Di Luca, Simoni, Contador, Bruseghin, Van den Broeck, Pellizotti, Pozzovivo, and Riccò took 34-34.
    (This timing info is from Davide Cassani)


    Lightweight
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • cal_stewart
    cal_stewart Posts: 1,840
    My view is pozzo was just testing the others in the last 500m. There was no point in him going for it with the downhill after as if in a small group he can fellow other peoples lines etc. Also think he may have just wanted to move up a few places and get a top 5 in gc before coming for it.
    eating parmos since 1981

    Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Aero 09
    Cervelo P5 EPS
    www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13038799
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Unless Basso can put 3 mins into Ryder over the next 2 days, or J Rod about 2, or Pozzer about 20, none of which will happen, this is all irrelevant.


    (watch now as RH pops on the Mortirolo and loses 40mins)
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • Abdoujaparov
    Abdoujaparov Posts: 642
    BigMat wrote:
    At the pace those guys climb you can still get a decent draft. Plus psychologically, it is good to have a teammate set the pace. Basso had to work on the front, make all the decisions about how hard to push etc. Had Smzyd been there he could have just sat on his wheel, let Smzyd crank the pace up a bit higher (which would have maybe dropped another couple of riders) then attacked with a few km to go which might have shed a couple more. I reckon it could have been just him and Pozzo by the top, but we'll never know (although we might get an insight over the weekend).

    Would be interested to know what sort of difference drafting makes at that sort of speed (17-18 km/h from the times below). Wouldn't have thought it will be much.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,185
    Would really love to see Pozzo go very early on the Stelvio and just see how much time he can take. If he really wants to be like Pantani someone needs to tell him that's what he has to do ;)
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    Pross wrote:
    Would really love to see Pozzo go very early on the Stelvio and just see how much time he can take. If he really wants to be like Pantani someone needs to tell him that's what he has to do ;)

    :lol:
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Nieve not messing about on this descent.
    I'm surprised no one commented on his technique - he made time up on those in front during his descent, although he came down mostly with his hands on the 'tops', not normally the recommended aerodynamic approach.
    He must have a very narrow shoulder width!
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Guardini cresting Giau 40mins behind.

    giro12st17jg-guardinitop.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest

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