Giro Stage 17 *spoiler*

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Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    Seemed to me, that if he gets decent weather this weekend, that Pozzovivo might still have a bit of that Trentino form under his bonnet.
    If goes early on the steep stuff, as he did there, he can't put everybody into the red and hold it.

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    knedlicky wrote:
    Rodriguez’s two stage wins have been ‘chipper’ level (small accelerations towards the end) - if he wants to be a worthy victor, I feel he needs to show something more to convince the Tifosi.

    Wow, tough crowd. You win this...

    t17_cortina_alt_sopr_600.jpg

    And you cry chipper! :(
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    richard wants a baum wrote:
    Basso is waiting for stages 19 and 20, making sure his not losing time before then. Attacking today wouldn't have gained him enough time not to get caught on the decent. Scarponi cramped and still managed to get back on, Basso is making sure he hasn't wasted any energy before the two deciding stages.

    J-Rod looked comfortable today, though the pace was high at points i don't think Basso was trying to shell anyone so I still reckon J-Rod will have his customary bad day and lose a bunch of time. Ryder is surprising everyone i reckon, he was on the only one that attacked today so hopefully that means his feeling pretty strong. If he is there up the Stelvio, Basso and Co. are going to have to start attacking him pretty hard to get the time they need

    I think Basso was trying to shell people out of the back. He was on the front with everyone following him in single file, he then stepped off the gas as no one was being dropped and they were spread out across the road, which he did several times.

    It wasn't just Hesjedal who attacked, Uran was off the front at one point, wasn't he? And of course Possivivo accelerated in the last 500m as well.

    Could also be the cast that Rodriguez was having his bad day yesterday and no one noticed or was able to take advantage of it! Just a though!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Seemed to me, that if he gets decent weather this weekend, that Pozzovivo might still have a bit of that Trentino form under his bonnet.
    If goes early on the steep stuff, as he did there, he can't put everybody into the red and hold it.

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.


    Fingers crossed.
    _
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    People really need to get over calling every race a chipper.....it was slightly amusing when Iain used it throughout the classics season, but calling a high mountain stage of the Giro where only 6 GC riders finished together just makes you look stupid!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    T'was a proper Giro mountain stage, albeit a little cagey. Good fun though.

    I think the problem is, that, beyond Pozz, who presumably was bricking it about going downhill, the rider who can attack better than anyone else - J Rod - is in a position to defend. Scarpo looks a little overcooked in week three and Basso doesn't quite have the pace to drop everyone.
    _
  • LeicesterLad
    LeicesterLad Posts: 3,908
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    T'was a proper Giro mountain stage, albeit a little cagey. Good fun though.

    I think the problem is, that, beyond Pozz, who presumably was bricking it about going downhill, the rider who can attack better than anyone else - J Rod - is in a position to defend. Scarpo looks a little overcooked in week three and Basso doesn't quite have the pace to drop everyone.

    Pozz will have something to say Friday and Saturday I think, he managed descend with the others yesterday, though it wasn't the quickest descent ive ever seen. I'd say Hesjedal is the man to beat though by a country mile. If Pozzo, Scarponi and Basso can't ditch him in the mountains then its game over, and Ryder clearly had enough in the tank yesterday to have a few little digs in the final big climb.
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  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Tom BB wrote:
    People really need to get over calling every race a chipper.....it was slightly amusing when Iain used it throughout the classics season, but calling a high mountain stage of the Giro where only 6 GC riders finished together just makes you look stupid!

    Totally.


    Re. J-Rod being on the defensive. You know full well that he isn't that type of rider. Huge attacker. It wouldn't make sense to attack a stage like this. It played out very well, the only thing was that Ryder wasnt dropped.

    We will see what happens when there is no descent. I'm certain J-Rod will attack if he has the legs.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    Blazing Saddles wrote:

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.

    this
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    edited May 2012
    I do find the comments about riders 'holding something back' bizarre. They must have had to give 100% yesterday, especially the chaps in the front group, just to finish as they did.
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    I think Basso and Leakygas have to stop working. For the past week they have taken control of the race and are busy tiring themselves out, yet all they've done is eliminated threats to J-Rod, Hesjedal and Scarponi. Basso looks like he's riding for an Italian win, rather than a Basso win.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.

    this

    You recon? Hej made a few half hearted digs, but I don't think he had the legs else he would have gone.

    Basso clearly tried to drop people a few times and that didn't really work.

    Scarpo looked/was cooked.

    Pozz looked good at the end so might have been holding back - same with J Rod.

    So all in all - I'm clear on everyone bar Pozz & J Rod.
    _
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    frenchfighter wrote:
    It wouldn't make sense to attack a stage like this.

    Why not?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    edited May 2012
    knedlicky wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:


    Rodriguez’s two stage wins have been ‘chipper’ level (small accelerations towards the end) - if he wants to be a worthy victor, I feel he needs to show something more to convince the Tifosi.

    winning 2 stages in a 21 day stage race?

    one a 180km high mountain stage and the other a steep 2-4k climb at full gas
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    AtmZLHiCQAAoZZX.png
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.

    this

    You recon? Hej made a few half hearted digs, but I don't think he had the legs else he would have gone.

    Basso clearly tried to drop people a few times and that didn't really work.

    Scarpo looked/was cooked.

    Pozz looked good at the end so might have been holding back - same with J Rod.

    So all in all - I'm clear on everyone bar Pozz & J Rod.

    agree scarponi was found out


    and I suspect ryder was bluffing... he really only needs to defend thou


    I suspect basso and jrod had more but it is
    unclear. Jrod may be bluffing basso into riding thinking he can follow still?????

    pozz has more defo but how much?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?

    It does make sense. Make them think you're stronger than you are.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Did you see Basso out the saddle - rare sight that one, very rare.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    edited May 2012
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?

    It does make sense. Make them think you're stronger than you are.

    Maybe, but when Possivivo went with 500m to the top of the climb, it wasn't Hesjedal who was tailed off. Or was Possivivo bluffing as well?

    I reckon that stage was pretty full gas, don't think there was any bluffing going on at all. You either could stay with that group or not.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    And what about Uran's hair...!
    Contador is the Greatest
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    I sense it would have been a nit different had Szmyd not punctured. He would then have made the pace leaving Basso fresh to mount an attack. Probably would have meant game over for Scarponi and possibly Uran at least. I imagine that Liquigas will have the same plan for the queen stage and I expect to see a smaller group than 6 by the finish.

    Fingers crossed for Cav today, I'd love it if he could take the red jersey to Milan.
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  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Last hour or so:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr0ogq ... mbediframe

    See same user for stages of all the Giro.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.

    this

    You recon? Hej made a few half hearted digs, but I don't think he had the legs else he would have gone.

    Basso clearly tried to drop people a few times and that didn't really work.

    Scarpo looked/was cooked.

    Pozz looked good at the end so might have been holding back - same with J Rod.

    So all in all - I'm clear on everyone bar Pozz & J Rod.


    I thought Pozz and J Rod looked more comfortable becuase they must be at least 5kg lighter than everyone else in that group (barring possible Uran) on a 15km climb averaging 9%
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.

    this

    You recon? Hej made a few half hearted digs, but I don't think he had the legs else he would have gone.

    Basso clearly tried to drop people a few times and that didn't really work.

    Scarpo looked/was cooked.

    Pozz looked good at the end so might have been holding back - same with J Rod.

    So all in all - I'm clear on everyone bar Pozz & J Rod.


    I thought Pozz and J Rod looked more comfortable becuase they must be at least 5kg lighter than everyone else in that group (barring possible Uran) on a 15km climb averaging 9%

    What's your point?
    _
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    BigMat wrote:
    I sense it would have been a nit different had Szmyd not punctured. He would then have made the pace leaving Basso fresh to mount an attack.

    How would he have been fresh? He still has to climb the mountains.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Maybe, but when Possivivo went with 500m to the top of the climb, it wasn't Hesjedal who was tailed off. Or was Possivivo bluffing as well?

    I reckon that stage was pretty full gas, don't think there was any bluffing going on at all. You either could stay with that group or not.

    I don't know mate, pure guess work and probably completely wrong ;)

    I think you're right about it being a full gas effort. It certainly looked that way to me.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:

    However, since the Giau was quite cagey, still waiting on the two monster MTFs, I'm not sure who is holding what, back.

    this

    You recon? Hej made a few half hearted digs, but I don't think he had the legs else he would have gone.

    Basso clearly tried to drop people a few times and that didn't really work.

    Scarpo looked/was cooked.

    Pozz looked good at the end so might have been holding back - same with J Rod.

    So all in all - I'm clear on everyone bar Pozz & J Rod.


    I thought Pozz and J Rod looked more comfortable becuase they must be at least 5kg lighter than everyone else in that group (barring possible Uran) on a 15km climb averaging 9%

    What's your point?

    I thought you were arguing that Ryder and Basso looked like they were on the wane on the basis that they looked uncomfortable/couldn't get away on the Giao. My point was that tiny climbers are always going to look (and be) more comfortable on a long, steep slope than a GC guy (albiet a climbing one) and a lanky TT specialist. It doesn't tell you a lot about how the rest of the race will pan out (except the Mortirolo, probably.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    and I suspect ryder was bluffing...

    What, by attacking?

    yes...

    you[ryder] are close to your limit


    you don't want basso to raise the tempo.... basso eases off as he did everyone looks round.. your[ryder's] heart rate drops so you push on as though you are testing the others... basso thinks "no point riding too hard today"
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    How would he have been fresh? He still has to climb the mountains.

    They're going fast enough that drafting matters. So if he's not on the front, he's either using less energy, or they're climbing faster - they won't've climbed faster as Szymd isn't good enough for that.
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