Voeckler

Tom Butcher

I thought he rode very well in the Tour. Sure if you go through the race there are times he should have been more conservative - but the point is it's by being such an attacking rider that he got into the situation he was in in the first place. For any very attacking rider you'll be able to pick out times when they were too brave - but over the season you find the attackers are very often rewarded the most.

I think he's made the best of his talent and he's entertained the fans - if that upsets other riders then that's their problem.

As for Flecha's quote - well it's just rubbish - they were in a break and they needed to keep it going.

rickyrider

Bakunin wrote:

It is not the attacking, TV, or anything else.

Flecha's quote says it all:

"Looking at the replay of the crash, his first reaction was to go faster, he didn't even stop pedalling for half a pedal stroke. On the next day, everybody in the bunch came to see me to see how I was doing, but he didn't. It just shows how he is as a person," Flecha said bluntly.

"He only cares about himself. If you ask the other riders in the bunch, they would agree with me. He never gives anything to others."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha- ... -de-france

I think the quote does say it all. I've always thought Flecha is clearly one of life's nice guys, and the reaction of the peloton spells that out. Tommy V on the other hand comes across as an attention seeking a**e.

hstiles

Then again, if it's true that he stayed with Europcar to ensure they secured a sponsor and released Pierre Rolland from domestique duties on stage 19, he's not that selfish.

LeicesterLad

rickyrider wrote:

Bakunin wrote:

It is not the attacking, TV, or anything else.

Flecha's quote says it all:

"Looking at the replay of the crash, his first reaction was to go faster, he didn't even stop pedalling for half a pedal stroke. On the next day, everybody in the bunch came to see me to see how I was doing, but he didn't. It just shows how he is as a person," Flecha said bluntly.

"He only cares about himself. If you ask the other riders in the bunch, they would agree with me. He never gives anything to others."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha- ... -de-france

I think the quote does say it all. I've always thought Flecha is clearly one of life's nice guys, and the reaction of the peloton spells that out. Tommy V on the other hand comes across as an attention seeking a**e.

Flecha is hardly Mr Personality though is he? Of course Tommy has his faults, he does ride with aggression but alot of the time without purpose, i agree that his tour ride, although good entertainment, wasn't such a bright idea when all said and done, im not a Tommy V fan, not really into his attitude in general, he always comes accross a bit, well, French...my casual racism aside, however, i think its high time we forgot some of the 'rules' of the road, so far as the likes of Cipo giving orders and telling people when and where they can attack, i think those days are largely gone anyway, but those who still race this way need to get with it, as stated previously, its a RACE, not a clubrun, nobody should be giving orders to riders not connected to their own teams, there should be no script else whats the point?

calvjones

hstiles wrote:

Then again, if it's true that he stayed with Europcar to ensure they secured a sponsor and released Pierre Rolland from domestique duties on stage 19, he's not that selfish.

+1

Never gives anything?

andyrr

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?
The fact that Fleche tells that Voeckler didn't speak to him after the stage doesn't put him in a great light but who knows if there is any history between the 2 of them that impacts on this, he does seem to keep himself to himself and, whilst he gets plenty of screentime and maybe plays to it to a certain extent, he races (hard) then goes home and doesn't court self-publicity.

rickyrider

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

durhamwasp

Well, i like Voeckler, and hope he keeps his attacking style going!

ddraver

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

And that's different from a normal crash how?

Voeckler was in front of the crash, he could nt have seen it happening behind him (He's not a Schleck...f'narrr)./ Should Boonen have stopped and waited for Boom after riding him off the road last weekend? Should the whole peloton have stopped and waited for Cavendish, 100m from the finish line on the last day of Qatar?

frenchfighter

Do you think he should have stopped like Boonen this weekend? When Boom got knocked off. Boonen didn't even bat an eyelid!

frenchfighter

KBK
Getty

ddraver

Holy Sugar Frenchie, now we re speaking FOR each other!!

timoid.

So how are Voeckler's insane attacks any worse then Voigt's suicide breaks?

And as for not stopping for Hoogerland, he was in with a shout of the yellow jersey. People who aren't single-minded do not wear that particular garment.

rick_chasey

Timoid. wrote:

So how are Voeckler's insane attacks any worse then Voigt's suicide breaks?

.

Exactly.

tremayne

sorry - but I honestly think sod gentleman's agreements. This is meant to be racing for shits sake! I think let anyone do anything they want. I don't want to read later on that some race I really enjoyed was actually the result of a load of different 'agreements' etc!
I don't really rate Tommy V. I didn't get too excited for him when he was in yellow. I thought it was kind of nice - given France hasn't had so much success with their race - but he's certainly not a rider I root for. However, if he has previously gone against 'orders' from so called 'patrons' then he goes up in my estimations.

As Frenchie says - the other guys don't have to chase TV Tommy. Doomed or not - at least its not 'kin scripted, and thats the very last thing I want from my pro cycling.

- talking about orders. To quote a chap called Antonio Montana, when talking to his former employer;

"you givin' me orders Frank? That what you doing? Let me tell you something..."

I think we all know the following line (or we should) and if thats Tommys stance - then that has my respect.

Bakunin

ddraver wrote:

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

And that's different from a normal crash how?

Voeckler was in front of the crash, he could nt have seen it happening behind him (He's not a Schleck...f'narrr)./ Should Boonen have stopped and waited for Boom after riding him off the road last weekend? Should the whole peloton have stopped and waited for Cavendish, 100m from the finish line on the last day of Qatar?

So there is no difference between Boom running out of road and Johnny H and Flecha getting hit by a car? That is silly.

Look at the race -- TV looked behind and knew what happened. The key thing is that he couldn't ask if Flecha was ok the next day? He got into yellow that day because of some of the work that Flecha and company did.

BikingBernie

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

A bit like the way Armstrong carried on when Beloki crashed out of the Tour with serious injuries?

I have a feeling that Vockler's real 'crime' here is probably being French.

ddraver

Bakunin wrote:

ddraver wrote:

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

And that's different from a normal crash how?

Voeckler was in front of the crash, he could nt have seen it happening behind him (He's not a Schleck...f'narrr)./ Should Boonen have stopped and waited for Boom after riding him off the road last weekend? Should the whole peloton have stopped and waited for Cavendish, 100m from the finish line on the last day of Qatar?

So there is no difference between Boom running out of road and Johnny H and Flecha getting hit by a car? That is silly.

Look at the race -- TV looked behind and knew what happened. The key thing is that he couldn't ask if Flecha was ok the next day? He got into yellow that day because of some of the work that Flecha and company did.

Rubbish, he saw Flecha and Hoogerland on the ground, probably thought they touched wheels, on the SAME STAGE, no one stopped and waited for Vino and his broken hip? Never happens...

dabber

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

Are you seriously suggesting he should have stopped, turned around and ridden back. What was he going to able to do anyway. They weren't isolated. There was a load of cars immediately behind the incident who were going to be able to assist. Totally unrealistic and totally out of step from what you ever see happen.

LeicesterLad

ddraver wrote:

Bakunin wrote:

ddraver wrote:

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

And that's different from a normal crash how?

Voeckler was in front of the crash, he could nt have seen it happening behind him (He's not a Schleck...f'narrr)./ Should Boonen have stopped and waited for Boom after riding him off the road last weekend? Should the whole peloton have stopped and waited for Cavendish, 100m from the finish line on the last day of Qatar?

So there is no difference between Boom running out of road and Johnny H and Flecha getting hit by a car? That is silly.

Look at the race -- TV looked behind and knew what happened. The key thing is that he couldn't ask if Flecha was ok the next day? He got into yellow that day because of some of the work that Flecha and company did.

Rubbish, he saw Flecha and Hoogerland on the ground, probably thought they touched wheels, on the SAME STAGE, no one stopped and waited for Vino and his broken hip? Never happens...

+1

RichN95.

Why should anyone stop? Ever.

They're not doctors. They can't do anything. There are doctors on hand. Riders will just get in the way.

Now if either rider had got straight back up and started to chase, then the decent thing would be to slow up a little, but they were on the floor for some time and weren't coming back.

thomasmc

Actually watched this stage last night while on the turbo. When he looked round & saw the crash you can see him mouthing something which resembles FFS in French, shakes his head & rides on.
What else was he going to do?

I believe he got a bit of abuse the next day from Hoogerlands team, maybe he was p***ed off & didn't talk to Flecha. We don't know & its not really important

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Why should anyone stop? Ever.

They're not doctors. They can't do anything. There are doctors on hand. Riders will just get in the way.

Now if either rider had got straight back up and started to chase, then the decent thing would be to slow up a little, but they were on the floor for some time and weren't coming back.

He'd have done everyone a favour if he pretended to care, even for 10 seconds.

We're a fickle bunch = s'all it would have taken.

rickyrider

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Why should anyone stop? Ever.

They're not doctors. They can't do anything. There are doctors on hand. Riders will just get in the way.

Now if either rider had got straight back up and started to chase, then the decent thing would be to slow up a little, but they were on the floor for some time and weren't coming back.

He'd have done everyone a favour if he pretended to care, even for 10 seconds.

We're a fickle bunch = s'all it would have taken.

Fair enough, my comment above was probably a bit naive, but as Rick C says, a teeny bit of empathy from TV would have gone a long way to helping his cause. As it was, his actions the next day were pretty pathetic to say the least.

As to TV's whole 'nobody likes me' schtick, everyone here must know people like that. And I'd bet you they are all kn*bs!

frenchfighter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On1MJxWZdmw

Bakunin

ddraver wrote:

Bakunin wrote:

ddraver wrote:

rickyrider wrote:

andyrr wrote:

Plus when he sees Jonny getting sideswiped the immediate thought would be "Well he won't get up from that in a hurry" so what's the point in waiting around, wasting valuable seconds ?

Because, erm, he might have been dead or seriously injured... not that that matters obviously. It's all about the result huh :roll:

And that's different from a normal crash how?

Voeckler was in front of the crash, he could nt have seen it happening behind him (He's not a Schleck...f'narrr)./ Should Boonen have stopped and waited for Boom after riding him off the road last weekend? Should the whole peloton have stopped and waited for Cavendish, 100m from the finish line on the last day of Qatar?

So there is no difference between Boom running out of road and Johnny H and Flecha getting hit by a car? That is silly.

Look at the race -- TV looked behind and knew what happened. The key thing is that he couldn't ask if Flecha was ok the next day? He got into yellow that day because of some of the work that Flecha and company did.

Rubbish, he saw Flecha and Hoogerland on the ground, probably thought they touched wheels, on the SAME STAGE, no one stopped and waited for Vino and his broken hip? Never happens...

Apparently reading doesn't come easy to you. I never said that he should stop, hold hands with others, and pray.

The fact is TV knew what happened -- to say otherwise is rubbish. He knew they didn't touch wheels. And it is rubbish to deny it.

Again he took yellow because of the work the Flecha and Hoogerland did. They deserved a hello the next day. That's my only point. TV said that people in the peloton don't like him, Flecha's quote indicates that it is more than just attacking.

ddraver

Ah, Abuse!

Birillo

Riders dislike him not because he attacks, but because he then feigns tiredness, skips turns, and THEN attacks again.

When Belgians do that it's called "crafty" or "tactical".

attica

frenchfighter wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On1MJxWZdmw

Warning, the link above contains gratuitous Nickleback

Back on topic though, isn't Hoogerland similarly disliked for his attacking style? Ironic that they both launched suicide attacks and at one point were working together at Copenhagen last year

ddraver

Attica wrote:

on topic though, isn't Hoogerland similarly disliked for his attacking style? Ironic that they both launched suicide attacks and at one point were working together at Copenhagen last year

I think I ran out of time to say this on the day but I was about to say that if anyone other than Team GB could win that race, one of those two would be my choice. That said, I let out a large expletive when I saw those two go, along the lines of if anyone could spoil the party for GB, it will be these two (but with much more swearing!)

On that day, it provoked a stunning bit of riding by Bradley Wiggins, which was anything but dull!