Voeckler

josame
josame Posts: 1,141
edited July 2013 in Pro race
Interesting comments by one of the key figures at last years tour...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voeckle ... nt-like-me
'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
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Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,249
    Hah, nice to see Boonen being a bit of a patron.
    “One day on the 2006 Tour, Tom Boonen, who was reigning world champion, was near the front, slowing things a little,” Voeckler said. “At the moment I launched my attack, he hit me hard on the back. I stopped, he yelled at me and I said to him: ‘You can shout if you like, but don’t touch me.’ I was the small French guy he could hit because I’m thirty centimetres smaller than him

    That was the year Boonen retired as soon as the road started pointing upwards right?
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Good interview that. Not that he'll be making any more friends with it.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • Voeckler. Legend. Every time I'm backing him. Attack all day every day.

    If there are others that don't like him because he attacks and gets attention and a big salary and endorsements then they should follow suit.

    If there are others that don't like him because he attacks and they don't want to have to follow then mtfu.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsHgbAOTQ3E

    610x-22-5.jpg

    610x-56-2.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... X8SvOZSz9Y
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,348
    Finally something we agree on Frenchie!!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    That is certainly one of the attitudees of cycling of old I hope doesn't continue. It takes the zip out of the racing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,249
    Love this quote.
    At the start of every stage of the Giro d’Italia, Mario Cipollini took out the road book to show riders where they had the right to attack! That was when I was starting out, in 2001, it was another era. And guys went along with it!”
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Reminds me of Robert Millar's story in the High Life documentary about Hinault getting angry because Millar had the audacity to attack, forcing Hinault to work harder!
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    It should be noted that the Voeckler of c.2006 was quite a bit different to the Voeckler of the last few years. After he wore yellow in 2004 he got a taste for the limelight and used to attack at stupid times just to get on TV - hence the derogatory nickname TV Tommy. Shirt unzipped, tongue hanging out on another doomed attack. There's a time and a place for getting on TV and that's in the early break where the likes of Auge, Perez and Roy earn the exposure. But that wasn't good enough for Tommy - he had to be conspicuous on prime-time. It's wasn't racing it was disruptive attention seeking. The French lap that sort of stuff up though.

    That's why they didn't like him. I didn't either, but I don't really blame him. He just trying to find an easy niche in a time of more doping. He's grown up since and become an actual racer.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    What's the difference between a pointless Stephane Augé attack on day 1 of the Tour de France and a pointless Voeckler attack on 35 km from the finish of a mountain stage? They both serve the same purpose and both have an equal chance of success.

    So the climbers teams don't like Voeckler because he disrupts their rhythm? Cry me a frickin' river. I'm pretty sure the sprint trains would prefer if no-one attacked on flat stages either.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,249
    afx237vi wrote:
    What's the difference between a pointless Stephane Augé attack on day 1 of the Tour de France and a pointless Voeckler attack on 35 km from the finish of a mountain stage? They both serve the same purpose and both have an equal chance of success.

    So the climbers teams don't like Voeckler because he disrupts their rhythm? Cry me a frickin' river. I'm pretty sure the sprint trains would prefer if no-one attacked on flat stages either.

    Tend to agree.

    Not especially keen on his posing for the camera, but criticising him for attacking? C'mon.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Riders dislike him not because he attacks, but because he then feigns tiredness, skips turns, and THEN attacks again.

    Riders love Vino and his crazy attacks, but they don't like Voeckler. It isn't the attacking.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    afx237vi wrote:
    What's the difference between a pointless Stephane Augé attack on day 1 of the Tour de France and a pointless Voeckler attack on 35 km from the finish of a mountain stage? They both serve the same purpose and both have an equal chance of success.

    So the climbers teams don't like Voeckler because he disrupts their rhythm? Cry me a frickin' river. I'm pretty sure the sprint trains would prefer if no-one attacked on flat stage either.

    If your working day is potentially ruined by someone showing off, then you're probably not going to like that person. The old Voeckler's attacks could have the effect of changing the pace of the racing and making it harder for the serious racers to launch credible attacks. So rather than the favourites attack at sensible moments we got to see a quicker and more controlled peloton pursuing the housewives favourite

    His attacks weren't racing. They were done at a pace designed to give 15km good TV time and were unsustainable for the 40km to the finish.

    Auge's attacks, by contrast, don't upset anyone. Voeckler was more like non-sprinters trying to contest a bunch sprint to try and get a top 15 on their palmares
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • So you are arguing his attacks are pointless and are just for tv.

    Well in that case, why bother to chase?

    The other riders wont have their rhythm disrupted so can ride their race and not get flustered.

    Unless of course the reason is they are jealous of his exposure - if that is the case they need to grow up.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    So you are arguing his attacks are pointless and are just for tv.

    Well in that case, why bother to chase?

    His attacks WERE pointless. He's been a different rider in the last few years.

    They chased because they couldn't be sure when or if he'd blow up. Or if he'd started doping and could now make it stick. They chase because they can't gamble.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    RichN95 wrote:
    If your working day is potentially ruined by someone showing off, then you're probably not going to like that person. The old Voeckler's attacks could have the effect of changing the pace of the racing and making it harder for the serious racers to launch credible attacks. So rather than the favourites attack at sensible moments we got to see a quicker and more controlled peloton pursuing the housewives favourite

    His attacks weren't racing. They were done at a pace designed to give 15km good TV time and were unsustainable for the 40km to the finish.

    Auge's attacks, by contrast, don't upset anyone. Voeckler was more like non-sprinters trying to contest a bunch sprint to try and get a top 15 on their palmares

    I understand that you're not going to be pleased if Voeckler's attack shells you out of the group, but c'mon, that's no reason why he shouldn't do it. It's a race. If you can't stick with the pace, that ain't his fault.

    Also, I don't see what's so terrible about someone showing off in a sport built on the back of advertising and publicity. It seems sort of apt. Voeckler's gutsy attitude makes him popular among casual viewers, and thus gets exposure for his team and sponsors. Cycling would suffer if everyone kowtowed to the patrons all the time.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 4,993
    RichN95 wrote:
    If your working day is potentially ruined by someone showing off, then you're probably not going to like that person. The old Voeckler's attacks could have the effect of changing the pace of the racing and making it harder for the serious racers to launch credible attacks. So rather than the favourites attack at sensible moments we got to see a quicker and more controlled peloton pursuing the housewives favourite

    His attacks weren't racing. They were done at a pace designed to give 15km good TV time and were unsustainable for the 40km to the finish.

    Auge's attacks, by contrast, don't upset anyone. Voeckler was more like non-sprinters trying to contest a bunch sprint to try and get a top 15 on their palmares

    I'm really puzzled by this, and also find myself in agreement with AFX, Rick and FF.
    Are you really saying that the races have to follow the script of the favorites? Sounds like pretty boring racing to me.

    Presumably you are going to tell me to shut up and stop spoiling the thread, because I only have 0.1% of your posts?

    'Housewife's favorite' - reminds me of the definition of the ideal lover related to me many years ago - a frenchman with a 9 inch tongue who can breathe through his ears. I failed on all three counts.
  • dabber
    dabber Posts: 1,924
    There should be no pecking order, riders should ride the race that they (and their team) deem appropriate. Why should they care what others and any self elected hierarchy would prefer them to do. It's a race, a free for all.
    Good for Voeckler, long may he continue to attack.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • Riders of course would prefer the peloton likes them as it makes their life easier.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,201
    I don't think it's the case that he pissed off the "hierarchy". I think it's more that he didn't respect the gentlemen's agreements in the peloton. The top riders are certainly those who settle the disputes and enforce the agreements, but the agreements are basically there because they benefit everyone. They ensure the guys in the early break get their moment in the sun (and earn their keep with their sponsors), they ensure the guys suffering at the back have a chance of making the cut-off, they ensure the domestiques riding for their GC hopefuls don't have to fight at the front all day long and they ensure the riders with a chance of a stage win or claiming some time can make meaningful attacks. Voeckler's TV attacks pissed in the soup for everyone, massively disrespectful.
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    edited February 2012
    Mad_Malx wrote:
    I'm really puzzled by this, and also find myself in agreement with AFX, Rick and FF.
    Are you really saying that the races have to follow the script of the favorites? Sounds like pretty boring racing to me.

    You're looking at it from the wrong angle. The thread is about why the riders don't like him. And the riders, by and large, do want the races to follow a general pattern. If someone is going to disrupt that then it should be with a sincere attempt to win rather than a lust for fame.
    The peloton don't dislike the likes of Contador, Cancellara, Schleck, Gilbert or Vino (or some lesser names) from attacking from 40km from the finish because there's an honesty to those attacks, while with Voeckler (pre-2009) that wasn't really the case.

    I personally never disliked his attacks back then, but I tended roll my eyes and view him as the comic relief before the real racing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    I don't think it's the case that he pissed off the "hierarchy". I think it's more that he didn't respect the gentlemen's agreements in the peloton. The top riders are certainly those who settle the disputes and enforce the agreements, but the agreements are basically there because they benefit everyone. They ensure the guys in the early break get their moment in the sun (and earn their keep with their sponsors), they ensure the guys suffering at the back have a chance of making the cut-off, they ensure the domestiques riding for their GC hopefuls don't have to fight at the front all day long and they ensure the riders with a chance of a stage win or claiming some time can make meaningful attacks. Voeckler's TV attacks pissed in the soup for everyone, massively disrespectful.


    Massively disrespectful? He generally put in the occasional dig a fair few K out and made for mildly entertaining racing. There are far, far, worse sins within cycling.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Looks like he divides opinion amongst French cycling fans too. Or at least the ones who comment on l'Equipe:

    http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-rout ... ner/266547
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,249
    RichN95 wrote:
    Mad_Malx wrote:
    I'm really puzzled by this, and also find myself in agreement with AFX, Rick and FF.
    Are you really saying that the races have to follow the script of the favorites? Sounds like pretty boring racing to me.

    You're looking at it from the wrong angle. The thread is about why the riders don't like him. And the riders, by and large, do want the races to follow a general pattern. If someone is going to disrupt that then it should be with a sincere attempt to win rather than a lust for fame.
    The peloton don't dislike the likes of Contador, Cancellara, Schleck, Gilbert or Vino (or some lesser names) from attacking from 40km from the finish because there's an honesty to those attacks, while with Voeckler (pre-2009) that wasn't really the case.

    I personally never disliked his attacks back then, but I tended roll my eyes and view him as the comic relief before the real racing.

    I do think there's a significant element of jealousy.

    A lot of riders figured (probably rightly) they were more talented than him with a better palmares, yet they're getting paid peanuts compared to him - and doing that for racing in an irritating fashion (for them anyway) > especially since they sacrifice such a lot to be a pro.
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,818
    Just read his interview in Procycling - he does seem a slightly oddball character but he stated that he loves racing, he'll race anywhere, big or small race, on TV or not,and his attacking is maybe just a way of ensuring that come the finishline he will know that he gave his all, 9 out of 10 attacks will come to nought but the 10th will stick and he'll have the last laugh. If I was riding in a peleton with him I'd probably hate him too as he causes the pace to ramp up and down when there was previously a steady period of riding. For spectators (like me) I think his attacks have always livened the races up, previously you knew (almost always) that he'd get caught but now you aren't so sure.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    I was the small French guy he could hit because I’m thirty centimetres smaller than him.

    So that would make Boonen about 2.07 Mtr or about 6' 9" in old money :?
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    It is not the attacking, TV, or anything else.

    Flecha's quote says it all:

    "Looking at the replay of the crash, his first reaction was to go faster, he didn't even stop pedalling for half a pedal stroke. On the next day, everybody in the bunch came to see me to see how I was doing, but he didn't. It just shows how he is as a person," Flecha said bluntly.

    "He only cares about himself. If you ask the other riders in the bunch, they would agree with me. He never gives anything to others."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha- ... -de-france
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Tom Voekler's attempt to chase the Schelek/Contador break in 2011 TDF and waste away energy in the no man's land between break and bunch on the Alpine mountain stage Schlek won was a shock..to see a rider perhaps throw away a GC podium....never seen that..he should have gone back to Evans group and conserved till Alpe D'Huez. Surely his team Director must have been speechless at TV that day
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Inrng mentioned to me a while ago the Spanish riders call him "Hollywood" due to his acting skills.

    But I'd heard he's generally disliked for the way he races. I'm in agreement with Dave_1 here, and was at the time, the way he rode in the Tour last year was moronic, not brave.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    I think it was partly down to inexperience in being in that situation as well, particularly as it's not common for two GC riders to ride off so early in a stage and he's never really been in that situation before (i.e. with a realistic shot at a tour podium). Evans initially followed then I think he saw the danger and sat up (I always thought that his "mechanical: was merely an excuse) whereas Voeckler tried to stay with them, couldn't but either his pride or his lack of experience made him keep going on his own.

    Personally I like the guy, his toungue out histrionics are a bit OTT sometimes but sport needs characters and he certainly is one. Over he last couple of years he has matured though and his results bear that out, his win at the GP Quebec was the best example of this. He's no longer just a plucky chancer, he now rides with a bit of common sense (Last years Alpe D'Huez stage excepted).
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    He may put in pointless attacks, some of which possibly even cost him results. However, he, like all other cyclists, is paid by a sponsor. That sponsor is giving money for their logo to get screen time. If Tommy V attacks, even a pointless one, his sponsor gets coverage. Job done. Conversely another rider will get a top 10 in the Tour de France and be very happy with his performance, yet have barely been seen on tv at all. That cyclist will probably think he has done better than Tommy V, but in the eyes of the sponsor the reverse is probably the case.

    Off at a tangent slightly, but if the model of cycling did change one day (i.e. teams getting a portion of TV money and hence not being so reliable on sponsors) it would be interesting to see how the overall style of racing changes.