JTL

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  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Crankbrother wrote:
    This thread sums Bikeradar up ...

    Looks dodgy to those in charge of such things 'codswallop ... he's an Englander' ...

    In an alternate universe ...Wins a GT, passes the testing that goes with it AND posts blood values ... 'Dirty American cheating SOB' ...

    None of us actually know who's doing what but in the face of overwhelming conjecture ... 'blame the American' ...

    Oh dear god! I'm having to agree with you here.

    I have to say I think the benefit of the doubt given in this thread is not the issue though. It's the refusal to be open minded to any other possibility than doping in other threads that is the issue.

    Like Rich says, abuse of statistics is a massive issue and supposition presented as facts is another.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    morstar wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    This thread sums Bikeradar up ...

    Looks dodgy to those in charge of such things 'codswallop ... he's an Englander' ...

    In an alternate universe ...Wins a GT, passes the testing that goes with it AND posts blood values ... 'Dirty American cheating SOB' ...

    None of us actually know who's doing what but in the face of overwhelming conjecture ... 'blame the American' ...

    Oh dear god! I'm having to agree with you here.

    I have to say I think the benefit of the doubt given in this thread is not the issue though. It's the refusal to be open minded to any other possibility than doping in other threads that is the issue.

    Like Rich says, abuse of statistics is a massive issue and supposition presented as facts is another.

    Me too, up to a point. Not that JTL getting an easy ride, cos who knows? But there's as much evidence against Horner's Vuelta performance being clean as there is on Froome's Tour. Granted it was much more surprising and Horner's corner has more than its fair share of skeletons.

    But I don't think it's anything to do with 'Brit's Good', 'Cheater's Bad'. The conventional wisdom against Horner is overwhelmingly strong. Even reliably sensible voices were 'sickened I tell you', at the spectacle.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    Crankbrother wrote:
    This thread sums Bikeradar up ...

    Looks dodgy to those in charge of such things 'codswallop ... he's an Englander' ... .

    Who?

    Who is saying that?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Macaloon wrote:

    Not that JTL getting an easy ride, cos who knows? But there's as much evidence against Horner's Vuelta performance being clean as there is on Froome's Tour. Granted it was much more surprising and Horner's corner has more than its fair share of skeletons.

    So... The conlusion is that there's much greater reason to believe that Horner was doping and it's actually not that 'equal' between them in the end..
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    ThomThom wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:

    Not that JTL getting an easy ride, cos who knows? But there's as much evidence against Horner's Vuelta performance being clean as there is on Froome's Tour. Granted it was much more surprising and Horner's corner has more than its fair share of skeletons.

    So... The conlusion is that there's much greater reason to believe that Horner was doping and it's actually not that 'equal' between them in the end..

    I agree that Horner is more likely, by quite a margin, to fail a test (or future retest) than Froome. That doesn't mean that the Horner MUST have doped to win the Vuelta.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Just wanted to point out that you made quite a contradiction in the post.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    ThomThom wrote:
    Just wanted to point out that you made quite a contradiction in the post.

    Fair enough. But I did refer to the specific performance and I think the comparison is valid: there's nothing on Horner or Froome.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Perhaps not in terms of positive tests but there's plenty on Horner.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,548
    symo wrote:
    OK so perhaps when Kroll took McQuaids laptop and the last email stated : 'Screw a UK rider"

    Remind me who Tiernan-Locke's agent is again?
  • confused@BR
    confused@BR Posts: 295
    Perhaps the real question to ask is..... when will JTL trouble the leader board again?

    If the answer is 2014 then this thread has 'legs'.
    'fool'
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    confused@BR wrote:
    Perhaps the real question to ask is..... when will JTL trouble the leader board again?
    When he starts riding 2.1 category races again.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,692
    Joelsim wrote:
    More "So and So is a guaranteed dodgy doper" crap...blah blah blah blah blah

    Libellous content removed. Perhaps you should read this. http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12611535
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Who TF is Wheelspinner?!?!?!?!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    ddraver wrote:
    Who TF is Wheelspinner?!?!?!?!
    Someone who doesn't understand that removing text from a quote doesn't edit the original post? It's not like the original (supposedly) libellous post is now safely gone, with BR being saved once again by the mighty Wheelspinner.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Wheelspinner used to have the avatar of the red motorbike.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    The 2 of those in the same head would create either madness or genius...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    “Things are going well, I'm back training and in my routine again,” the Briton stated, according to ciclismointernacional.com. “I sent my information to the UCI several weeks ago and I was able to give my explanations, so now I just have to wait.”
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ad_snow
    ad_snow Posts: 469
    frenchfighter wrote:
    “Things are going well, I'm back training and in my routine again,” the Briton stated, according to ciclismointernacional.com. “I sent my information to the UCI several weeks ago and I was able to give my explanations, so now I just have to wait.”
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15766/Tiernan-Locke-says-hes-training-for-2014-season-no-conclusion-yet-in-biological-passport-case.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+velonation_pro_cycling+%28Cycling+News+%26+Race+Results+%7C+VeloNation.com%29
    www.adriansnowcycling.blogspot.com
  • rich_pcp
    rich_pcp Posts: 113
    Any updates on JTL yet anywhere? It seems an awfully long time considering a decision was originally expected within 3 weeks.
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    rich pcp wrote:
    Any updates on JTL yet anywhere? It seems an awfully long time considering a decision was originally expected within 3 weeks.

    I don't think the decision was ever expected in three weeks; JTL had three weeks to respond to bio-passport panel.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ^^ Right. JTL had 3 weeks to respond (think he got an extension on top of that)

    Seems to take forever to get official word re some AD-related decisions.

    eg Santa's B sample results still not made public...officially....
  • rich_pcp
    rich_pcp Posts: 113
    Okay, right!
  • gpreeves
    gpreeves Posts: 454
    http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/Cycling-star-s-future-clearer-Spanish-training/story-20258681-detail/story.html

    He's still waiting on a decision from the UCI according to this article, and currently on a training camp in Majorca.
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    This has been going on to long

    Cover up bullshit time IMO .

    They soon charged Contador with a tiny amount of clenbuterol.

    Conspiracy?
  • argyllflyer
    argyllflyer Posts: 893
    rayjay wrote:
    This has been going on to long

    Cover up bullshit time IMO .

    They soon charged Contador with a tiny amount of clenbuterol.

    Conspiracy?

    Are passport cases ever speedily resolved?
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    argyllflyer wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    This has been going on to long

    Cover up bullshit time IMO .

    They soon charged Contador with a tiny amount of clenbuterol.

    Conspiracy?

    Are passport cases ever speedily resolved?

    Chalk and cheese. JTL has a passport anomaly, Contador had a banned substance in his body. Also Contador got off with a wrist slap, so no cover up. :roll:
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ^Contador got 2 years - the max for this type of offence.

    It was all the nonsense with the appeals draggings on that meant he was only out of racing action for 6 months.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    ^Contador got 2 years - the max for this type of offence.

    It was all the nonsense with the appeals draggings on that meant he was only out of racing action for 6 months.

    So he was not banned for two years then was he. It was left up to the Spanish federation. :wink:
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    mike6 wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    ^Contador got 2 years - the max for this type of offence.

    It was all the nonsense with the appeals draggings on that meant he was only out of racing action for 6 months.

    So he was not banned for two years then was he. It was left up to the Spanish federation. :wink:


    Which is why WADA and the UCI appealed to CAS for a 2 year ban - which CAS ruled on. All of his results back to Jul 2010 were scrubbed.

    What you have an issue with is the appeals process - which in Bert's case dragged on way too long, which didnt help -and the fact is that the athlete is allowed to continue competing. And that's not unique to Bert or his situation. The clock starts ticking from the time of the offence. The clock doesnt restart from the date of the CAS ruling. Riis could have decided to stand Bert down whilst all that was going on but of course he had no intention of doing so, and Bert had no intention of keeping away from racing.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    mike6 wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    ^Contador got 2 years - the max for this type of offence.

    It was all the nonsense with the appeals draggings on that meant he was only out of racing action for 6 months.

    So he was not banned for two years then was he. It was left up to the Spanish federation. :wink:


    Which is why WADA and the UCI appealed to CAS for a 2 year ban - which CAS ruled on. All of his results back to Jul 2010 were scrubbed.

    What you have an issue with is the appeals process - which in Bert's case dragged on way too long, which didnt help -and the fact is that the athlete is allowed to continue competing. And that's not unique to Bert or his situation. The clock starts ticking from the time of the offence. The clock doesnt restart from the date of the CAS ruling. Riis could have decided to stand Bert down whilst all that was going on but of course he had no intention of doing so, and Bert had no intention of keeping away from racing.

    Thanks for clearing that up Rich. So all any cheat needs to do is appeal, and keep competing, get found guilty and only serve what is left of the ban? Brilliant. And they say the law is an ass. Proven I think.
    What we need is a change in the law to prevent this abuse.
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