A can of Five Orange worms

toasty

What's the issue? They're put together in the UK by hand, so are bound to cost a bit more. They're seen as being tough as they can merrily swap to 160mm forks and still be covered on warranty.

They're not heavy, sub 7lbs is not heavy. Far lighter than my Meta, which can only take 140mm forks. Lighter than a Zesty 214/314 frame, would you class those as lardy? The only similar, slack, lowish, 140-160mm trail frames I can think of are Yeti 575s and Blur LTs, both weight similar (the new Yetis weigh more).

MBR is not the only magazine to have given the bike a good review:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-orange-five-pro-10-36564

Feel free to point me to a bad review, by someone who has actually ridden one.

As for single pivot, it's not worse, it's completely personal preference. I've owned 3 FSR 4 bar bikes, a DW link Mojo and have demoed everything under the sun, VPPs, Maestro, etc. Rather tragically I still like the single pivot more than any of them, as do a lot of riders. Yes it'll toughen up while hammering the brakes down a hill, this isn't always undesirable though.

People need to stop purely going off looks, price and what they own, and get out and ride. There's some Orange demo days about at the moment actually, go check the webby and have a demo.

cat_with_no_tail

I think some people tend to confuse not liking the 5, and not liking the sycophantic Orange fanbois.

I've borrowed a mates 5 before. I thought it was ok, pretty good actually. The design works well enough, although I found unless you were using pro-pedal it bobbed too much for my liking.

I personally happen to think they're one of the most gopping bikes on the market. And when you hear that from someone who owns a Bionicon you know it's bad. But you also know that someone who owns a Bionicon has forsaken looks for ride quality. Someone who owns a 5 has forsaken looks for a little sticker that says made in England on it.

The thing that annoys me is not the bike, it's the people (and magazines) who try to deny that they represent very poor value for money just because they were thrown together here rather than in the far east.

If they dropped the prices by 25% or more I'd recommend people to try them all day long.

They're average bikes with a premium price tag. If you're happy to swallow the increased price just so you can feel a bit more smug about single handedly saving the british manufacturing industry, that's fine, more power to ya. But you can't also then claim that it's the bestest bike of teh evars, because it quite blatantly isn't.

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

MBR is not the only magazine to have given the bike a good review:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-orange-five-pro-10-36564

so is that the last time they were any good, 2 years ago ? :roll:

toasty

Is the value THAT terrible though? Picking a fairly middling number and looking solely at slackish AM bikes.

You can pick up a Five with Floats, Fox rear shock, a Hope wheelset and bog standard Deore gearing for £2399:
http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=1900

You could get a Specialized Stumpy Evo, with cheaper forks, an own brand wheelset (with plain gauge spokes, and unbranded hubs/rims) and X7/X9 gearing for £2499:
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-Stumpjumper-FSR-Comp-Evo-Mountain-Bike-2012-Full-Suspension-MTB_48370.htm

You could have a Remedy, Trek always seem to be praised for being good value, once again cheaper open bath fork, Deore hub wheels, SLX/Deore gearing:
http://www.rutlandcycling.com/40105/Trek-Remedy-8-2012---Full-Suspension-Mountain-Bike.html

Giant Reign? The low end Giants are normally unbeatable price wise, biggest bike company in the world etc.. Cheaper Rockshox bits, own brand + Deore hubs on cheap DT Swiss rims, SLX/Deore gearing:
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Giant-Reign-1-Mountain-Bike-2012-Full-Suspension-MTB_48756.htm

The very fact you can compare the build on a boutique, hand made, frame, to that of absolutely massive, global, mass produced bikes seems bizarre in my eyes. Bizarrely the Five has the most expensive forks and wheelset out of all of the above, probably the only wheelset I wouldn't instantly chuck on ebay. If the groupset is THAT much of an issue, flog it and get a full SLX set for £250 from Merlin.

toasty

chez_m356 wrote:

Toasty wrote:

MBR is not the only magazine to have given the bike a good review:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-orange-five-pro-10-36564

so is that the last time they were any good, 2 years ago ? :roll:

Dunno, the website is a bit shonky. There's another review of one from the search results, also 4.5, that goes to the same page. Feel free to link a bad review.. don't recall there ever being one.

Orange owners get stick for going by magazines, yet curiously you're the one who clearly had never ridden the bike he bought. Going purely by magazine reviews of a similar model, good value = great bike, right? 68.5 degree head angle on an AM bike? QR dropouts only? Think I'll hold off a few years.

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

chez_m356 wrote:

Toasty wrote:

MBR is not the only magazine to have given the bike a good review:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-orange-five-pro-10-36564

so is that the last time they were any good, 2 years ago ? :roll:

Dunno, the website is a bit shonky. There's another review of one from the search results, also 4.5, that goes to the same page. Feel free to link a bad review.. don't recall there ever being one.

there wont be one, the mags wont slag off the UK's great Orange hope, and you'll never here a bad word from an owner because they have spent too much on it for what it is, im not saying the 5 is no good, but it isnt the be all and end all, its a good bike, just over hyped and over priced

toasty

Ahh I see, all the mags are corrupt, and it's a big conspiracy. Thank god people like you are here to sort these things out. Magazines have given negative reviews of a few Orange models, the Crush had a few, the P7 had some issues I seem to recall. Same with other UK companies, generally spread of good reviews and bad. The Fives always do well though.

As above, they're no worse value than Specialized/Trek or Giant, but undoubtedly spend more money on the frame, while having to pay a lot more for the parts due to having far less buying power.

What about the people who demo them and find them good? I've demo'd a couple, and they're fantastic, I'm not an Orange owner, never have been. There's a couple saying the same in the thread.

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

Ahh I see, all the mags are corrupt, and it's a big conspiracy. Thank god people like you are here to sort these things out. Magazines have given negative reviews of a few Orange models, the Crush had a few, the P7 had some issues I seem to recall. Same with other UK companies, generally spread of good reviews and bad. The Fives always do well though.

As above, they're no worse value than Specialized/Trek or Giant, but undoubtedly spend more money on the frame, while having to pay a lot more for the parts due to having far less buying power.

What about the people who demo them and find them good? I've demo'd a couple, and they're fantastic, I'm not an Orange owner, never have been. There's a couple saying the same in the thread.

you don't have to own one to be a fanboi, i like the link you gave for the orange, theres a list of all the bike of the year tests they have one on one of the models, all from MBR and MBUK, when was the last time it won or was even included in a bike of the year in WMB?

Stevo_666

They can't be that bad to ride as they clearly don't sell on their looks ;-)

toasty

when was the last time it won or was even included in a bike of the year in WMB?

The sign of a bad bike? Not bike of the year in every magazine, every year, apparently.

I put "Bike of the year" in the search bar at the top, the top link was:

http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/the-what-mountain-bike-2010-bike-of-the-year-shootout-26222

Which non-too-shockingly had an Orange Five in :roll: WMB article.

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

when was the last time it won or was even included in a bike of the year in WMB?

The sign of a bad bike? Not bike of the year in every magazine, every year, apparently.

I put "Bike of the year" in the search bar at the top, the top link was:

http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/the-what-mountain-bike-2010-bike-of-the-year-shootout-26222

Which non-too-shockingly had an Orange Five in :roll: WMB article.

oh well done, you do understand what this ? means by the way, it was a question not a statement, so....did it WIN then ?

Anonymous

As said, it's not about the bike. They're adequate enough bikes I'm sure. It's some of the owners and the attitudes.

Not that it's exclusive to Orange, just there are a lot of them.

If I owned one I'd probably love it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I just don't need to ram that opinion down people's throats. I appreciate anyone else's bike as much as mine (even though I'm from Surrey).

toasty

chez_m356 wrote:

oh well done, you do understand what this ? means by the way, it was a question not a statement, so....did it WIN then ?

Of course not, it's not as good value as supermarket bikes :roll: Would "What Car" recommend a handbuilt boutique car as their car of the year? Clearly not.

Mountain bike of the year is a very broad category, having to sit downhill bikes, next to 20lb race bikes. The fact it was there would imply it's one of the very best 140mm trail bikes you can buy, in their opinion. No?

angry_bird

With the whole British made thing isn't it just the swingarm they make in halifax anyway? I thought their front triangles are made in the far east with the rest of their aluminium bikes. So basically you're buying half a British bike anyway?

toasty

Angry Bird wrote:

With the whole British made thing isn't it just the swingarm they make in halifax anyway? I thought their front triangles are made in the far east with the rest of their aluminium bikes. So basically you're buying half a British bike anyway?

No, it's all welded over here, the downtube is cut and folded over here too. The tubing might not be made over here, it's tubing from Reynolds though, which is an English company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology

Can't see why people are so desperate to find fault. There's not one Orange Five owner on the forum I've seen, claiming his bike is the best, well since Grantway moved onto richer pastures.

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

chez_m356 wrote:

oh well done, you do understand what this ? means by the way, it was a question not a statement, so....did it WIN then ?

Of course not, it's not as good value as supermarket bikes :roll: Would "What Car" recommend a handbuilt boutique car as their car of the year? Clearly not.

Mountain bike of the year is a very broad category, having to sit downhill bikes, next to 20lb race bikes. The fact it was there would imply it's one of the very best 140mm trail bikes you can buy, in their opinion. No?

mate, relax, remember the is an orange thread, i'm just razzing you, my, how people do get worked up in these threads

toasty

I know, they sometimes dissolve into writing non-sensical lines with block capitals and bold apparently. :roll:

chez_m356

Angry Bird wrote:

With the whole British made thing isn't it just the swingarm they make in halifax anyway? I thought their front triangles are made in the far east with the rest of their aluminium bikes. So basically you're buying half a British bike anyway?

what about WHYTE bikes aren't they supposed to be british, where are they made?, and i'm not being sarcastic

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

I know, they sometimes dissolve into writing non-sensical lines with block capitals and bold apparently. :roll:

hey lay off, i've only just managed being able to get my fingers to work together on a keyboard, well almost

bikefish100

Re weights, I work for a dealer, and the weights are:-

2012 frame: without shock, 6.45lbs. Fox Evo RL 190x50 is 0.5lbs, and spacers, bushings and bolts add another 0.15lbs.

Total weight for 18" = 7.1lbs.

Quite a lot of bikes are expensive for 2012, but I don't think the above comparisons are fair with the Giant, Spesh and Trek which are all 150mm travel and come that way from the distributor. The Orange 'RS' is a Sunset Cyles shop build that has added a few extras, so is only available there. A decent buy, certainly better than the standard S which is awful for the money, and heavy at 31.5lbs:

http://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/product/125156.html

Both have older 9spd Shimano too, though it works well enough. I'd put the Revelation RL above the Fox RL too, feels stiffer, and not as prone to diving with the compression adjustment. They are not bomb proof either, had quite a few back with cracked bottom bracket shells.

angry_bird

Toasty wrote:

Angry Bird wrote:

With the whole British made thing isn't it just the swingarm they make in halifax anyway? I thought their front triangles are made in the far east with the rest of their aluminium bikes. So basically you're buying half a British bike anyway?

No, it's all welded over here, the downtube is cut and folded over here too. The tubing might not be made over here, it's tubing from Reynolds though, which is an English company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology

Can't see why people are so desperate to find fault. There's not one Orange Five owner on the forum I've seen, claiming his bike is the best, well since Grantway moved onto richer pastures.

I stand corrected, doesn't bother me either way, I was just under the impression it was only the rear end was done in the UK.

toasty

Quite a lot of bikes are expensive for 2012, but I don't think the above comparisons are fair with the Giant, Spesh and Trek which are all 150mm travel and come that way from the distributor.

Not hugely sure I get where you're going, my point was it was good value. 150mm 32mm Fox cost exactly the same as 140mm, infact I'd be shocked if they weren't the exact same forks with a spacer inside.

I compared with that model as it was the closest to the £2500 pricemark I'd opted for. Compare the S to a Remedy 7 if you like, neither seems to have one up on the other. Revelations vs the new cheaper 2012 Fox Evolution open bath jobbies, Deore and cheap wheelsets all round.

bennett_346

this is getting tiresome at best

bikefish100

Toasty wrote:

Quite a lot of bikes are expensive for 2012, but I don't think the above comparisons are fair with the Giant, Spesh and Trek which are all 150mm travel and come that way from the distributor.

Not hugely sure I get where you're going, my point was it was good value. 150mm 32mm Fox cost exactly the same as 140mm, infact I'd be shocked if they weren't the exact same forks with a spacer inside.

I compared with that model as it was the closest to the £2500 pricemark I'd opted for. Compare the S to a Remedy 7 if you like, neither seems to have one up on the other. Revelations vs the new cheaper 2012 Fox Evolution open bath jobbies, Deore and cheap wheelsets all round.

I meant the rear travel :-). Ok, 10mm doesn't mean too much, but then 10mm more than that is Alpine territory and another £300 frame only. Sunset are on the ball with what they have done, and used their own buying power to get a half decent spec in there. But occasionly you see other shops do similar with other brands.

Revelation RL uses the Dna motion control damper, sealed in the upper leg (ie not open bath 'damped'- but oil bath for lube). The compression damping adjustment and dual flow rebound work really well.

Remedy 7 at 2.1k:

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/40103/Tre ... -Bike.html

Gets the Evo fork, but Performance shock, 10 speed Deore (this seems to many to be a big factor on the shop floor, many view 9 as dated) - better value than the 8 it seems.

chez_m356

Toasty wrote:

No, it's all welded over here, the downtube is cut and folded over here too. The tubing might not be made over here, it's tubing from Reynolds though, which is an English company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology

so its an English company that was bought by the americans, and then returned here after a management buy out, led by a Mr Keith Noronha who was born in Nairobi in 1955, now you cant get more English than that, i wonder who the managing director is ???

The Northern Monkey

chez_m356 wrote:

Toasty wrote:

No, it's all welded over here, the downtube is cut and folded over here too. The tubing might not be made over here, it's tubing from Reynolds though, which is an English company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology

so its an English company that was bought by the americans, and then returned here after a management buy out, led by a Mr Keith Noronha who was born in Nairobi in 1955, now you cant get more English than that, i wonder who the managing director is ???

This guy?

Dirtydog11

The Northern Monkey wrote:

for me its just because its a lazy bike... they've not changed much in x many years they've been going.

There's not a single tube on them that hasn't undergone some change at some time or another with the possible exception of the BB. :roll: Edit actually no, they added ISCG mounts to that.

Northwind

Aye, some folks want to see massive changes but if you start over every few years with a new idea, you need to figure it out again. Whereas if you stay with an old idea you can sometimes polish it and finesse it to the point you're better off that way. Is that the case with Orange? Up to you to decide really. I think they've got good reasons to do what they do.

Thewaylander

it simply comes to this.

The owners smell, the welding is awful for a hand built frame, i mean the guys must be blind rather a machine do it than them.

And even far more important.... Because most of them aren't even orange.. there green, black silver i mean jeese it says orange!! what a fib

supersonic

And it aint 5 inches!