The big LIGHTS thread 2011-2014

bartimaeus

I've no idea if it is over-cautious, but I just use one of these timer plugs to limit the charge time.

101_North

Quick technical question about voltages and current which hopefully someone will know a simple answer to.

I have a voltage chip which displays voltage on an LED display. When connected to the battery pack with no lights the voltage is read and displayed correctly (checked with DMM). However - when I connect the voltage chip between the battery pack and the lights the following occurs:

Lights off - correct voltage displayed
Lights on low - correct voltage displayed
Lights on med - voltage displayed is out by -0.2v
Lights on High - voltage displayed is out by -0.3v

Obviously the voltage reading is being affected by the draw from the light heads. Can anyone provide a simple explanation or point to a fairly non-technical link whihc would help me understand why?

Thanks

101

wishitwasallflat

adrenalinemunki wrote:

Hi guys,

I've bought all the stuff from DX that supersonic recommends in his "everything you need to get started" thread... and I've read through about 15 pages of this thread but I would like to be clear on something... Everyone is talking about modding and about safety issues, can I just get on with using what I've bought or are there some things I have got to be very aware of?

So did I and I am delighted with my purchase (wish I'd bought two torches though as I bought an additonal 501b from ebay and its nowhere near as good as the TH T6 !). I charged the batteries when they first arrived and no problems since. I alos bought soem Yetzl batteries from Torchy Boy on ebay as I need back ups for both torches).

I get the feeling the risk of batteries venting is small but real so just sit them on a fire proof surface or somewhere away from anything flammable (I do mine sitting on top of the washing machine in the garage but will stikc em in a biscuit tin as soon as one comes free) just to be careful. At the end of the day - AFAIK - all rechargable batteries have this potential its just that as this stuff is cheap and assembled in the far east people are more wary (IMHO uneccesarily than if it was British or EU made). Also the assembly can be rough but the links at the end of DIYs signature show a really really easy and simple dissemble and check process. Given the much imporved performance and price compared to the likes of Cateye, LEzyne, Lupine, Exposure etc etc the small hassles of these issues were well well worth it for me.

alfablue

Flasher for commuting - lost my Fenix

I have lost my Fenix LD2 CE Q5 (2AA, 180 lumens) after several years of sterling service. At £40ish I am not likely to replace it. I generally use it in flashing mode while commuting, it tends to stop pedestrians walking off the kerb in front of me. I have a 501b T6 for my main light, but the flash mode on that is too much! I am looking for a cheap replacement for the Fenix that uses 1 or 2 AA's or even AAA's that will give me a similarly bright, but not too bright flash mode. Any suggestions?

apreading

I think the strobe on all the cheapo lights is way too fast for flashing mode on a bike. I think the Fenix is a slower flash and as such works well, but is expensive.

The best option I have found here is the Blackburn Mars Click - £8 here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackburn-Voy ... 1c20c2fc6f

This has another advantage in that it is more visible from the side than the Fenix or torches generally are. And it is really bright - I have tried most of the 'small flashers' and this is by far the brightest I have found.

If you want something using normal batteries, the Mars Voyager might be worth a look - but I havent tried it myself. Pretty cheap though, and again probably better side visibility than you have right now. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACKBURN-VOY ... 1e673b5ba4

Ouija

Just use another 501b and get a pack of balloons. Cut the top off a red, green or blue balloon and stretch it over the head of the 501b and then put it on flash. This knocks down the brightness considerably. If the balloon material is too thin and you still think it's too bright, simply use two layers instead. You then can use the 'flasher' 501b as a spare battery carrier for your main 501b. Alternatively, just try the balloon trick on your current 501b and pull it off when you want to use it as a standard light (saves you some weight on the handlebars).

butcher of bakersfield

Neal_ wrote:

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

I wonder if anyone can help. Whilst explaining to the missus that the saucepan was a precautionary measure and my Ultrafire charger was, in fact, perfectly safe. At that moment I turned the plug on, to which followed a large flash (in the pan, funnily enough), cue the house falling into darkness. Bloody thing blew up.

Turns out it was the power lead. Must have been cut...wires touching....I guess. Whatever happened, it's now in two pieces. So I need another.

The charger is the same as this, and the mains lead has one end squared off. Does anyone know if you can buy these in the UK - just the lead? http://www.amazon.co.uk/UltraFire-WF-13 ... B003OCV000

I also notice there's another socket for a round pluggy type plug too. Excuse the technical jargon - I wouldn't be asking here if I knew the answers.

I'm not getting very much riding done so would appreciate any answers!

Use this as an opportunity to get a better quality charger, Xtar make about the best chargers before you get into very expensive hobby chargers and the WP2 II is probably the right one for you. £12 with UK plug from UK stock http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XTAR-WP2-II-U ... 1c265f1708

Say what? A new charger? I bought this stuff because I'm a cheapskate.

What's the WP2 do that mine doesn't do?

diy wrote:

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

The charger is the same as this, and the mains lead has one end squared off. Does anyone know if you can buy these in the UK - just the lead? http://www.amazon.co.uk/UltraFire-WF-13 ... B003OCV000

I also notice there's another socket for a round pluggy type plug too. Excuse the technical jargon - I wouldn't be asking here if I knew the answers.

I'm not getting very much riding done so would appreciate any answers!

Bs 363 power cable will do otherwise know as a figure of eight cable. The other port is for 12v dc input. It shouldn't matter which way around the cable goes in.

BS 363 seems to be the standard cable you see in the UK? Mine has one square end, so it's tailored to fit that specific cable. Maybe it would be easier to get a 12v dc input, I'm guessing it's an international standard fit?

I'd be worried about the bang though - don't you have rcd / Mcb breaker installed?

The switch did trip. So I would only have been electrocuted for no longer than a second, which is good to know...I don't think you can suck electricity back in...

I've never had much luck with these chargers I prefer the high amp oem types. But others have given links to better chargers. If I were buying again I'd try an 18650 power pack instead. Since its more useful.

E.g. http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/product-14 ... rger_.html

If it's better to buy a new charger though, that's what I'll do. So long as it's cheap... But knowing nothing about them, I don't know what I'm looking for really (I thought I'd done the right thing getting the more expensive Ultrafire one in the first place...). I'm not even sure what that in the link is - is it a charger??

Neal_

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

Neal_ wrote:

Use this as an opportunity to get a better quality charger, Xtar make about the best chargers before you get into very expensive hobby chargers and the WP2 II is probably the right one for you. £12 with UK plug from UK stock http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XTAR-WP2-II-U ... 1c265f1708

Say what? A new charger? I bought this stuff because I'm a cheapskate.

What's the WP2 do that mine doesn't do?

Not blow up!

It also charges the cells properly without over charging them...which can make them go bang

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Ch ... %20UK.html

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... on-Charger

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/4148

Ouija

+1

There's more to charging a battery than simply chucking a bit of current at it. Doing that for 3 hours only charges the battery to about 80% and batteries are logarithmic (if that's the right word). In other words, 80% charge doesn't give you 80% runtime. Surprisingly, that last 10 to 15% charge can account for 30 to 40% of the lights runtime, so it make good sense to have a charger that can fill the battery all the way to 100%. To do that you need a charger that is at least a three stage charger (standard charge, trickle charge (to get that last 10/15% in) and cut off). And there's even multiple ways of doing the initial standard charge to minimize damage to the chemicals inside the battery (all batteries suffer damage every time you charge/discharge them, which is why they don't last forever... the faster you try to do either, the more damage you do). You also have to watch out for overcharging or over draining Li-Ion batteries. A good charger takes care of most of this (as well as monitoring the battery to stop it getting too hot).

A cheap charger and a cheap 18650 battery will only give you about 50 mins to 1 hour runtime on a Ultrafire 501 style torch on high beam, a good battery and charger gives you around 1 hr 30m on the same setting. So it's worth investing in good batteries and chargers.

concorde

I was going to go with this setup but apparently the first link is a bit 'spotlighty' I wanted that on my bars and the torch on my lid. Anybody reccommend a flood for the bars instead of my first link please?

1 x 1200 lumen complete light kit: http://dx.com/p/t6-waterproof-xml-t6-3- ... -set-82510

1 x 510 lumen torch: http://dx.com/p/ultrafire-wf-501b-xm-lt ... 8650-55241

1 x pair of 18650 battery: http://dx.com/p/trustfire-protected-186 ... -blue-5790

1 x charger: http://dx.com/p/digital-li-ion-18650-ba ... arger-6105

1 x plug adapter: http://dx.com/p/universal-uk-travel-pow ... -plug-2709

Cheers

Ouija

That first one is ok if you can get it with an Orange Peel (OP) reflector or buy a standard NukeProof lense from Chainreactions to make it a bit more floody.

Personally, the battery, charger and plug are terrible. Probably only get an hour out of that battery/charger combination on full brightness. Sticking the adaptor on the charger doesn't make it any safer (or better at charging).

Better off getting some decent SenyBor, Sony, Yezl batteries from a uk supplier and a better charger that is built around a three plug socket and not a two prong socket and adaptor.

concorde

Ouija wrote:

That first one is ok if you can get it with an Orange Peel (OP) reflector or buy a standard NukeProof lense from Chainreactions to make it a bit more floody.

Personally, the battery, charger and plug are terrible. Probably only get an hour out of that battery/charger combination on full brightness. Sticking the adaptor on the charger doesn't make it any safer (or better at charging).

Better off getting some decent SenyBor, Sony, Yezl batteries from a uk supplier and a better charger that is built around a three plug socket and not a two prong socket and adaptor.

Ok, cheers. Think I may stick with the top link, seen some shots of the beam and it looks floody enough to me.

As for the other batteries and charger, I'll look into British stuff. I'll probably get 4 batteries so the 1 hour thing doesn't bother me but the safety does!

butcher of bakersfield

New charger it is then. Do we have a comprehensive list starting with the bestest and ending in the worstest?

andyrr

Jimx26 wrote:

diy wrote:

Looks like this is a fed ex problem. had you ordered the items Hong Kong post they would be under the £15 limit. I have ordered loads from dx bob lm and never had any problems. But I dint buy 18650s form china because they are junk normally.

UPDATE: I think you can dodge this... how much is VAT and how much is admin?

I don't think you are legally obliged to pay anything other than VAT due. Fed Ex should have gained your agreement to pay at the point of delivery, if you haven't previously agreed to pay their fees. I think you can just pay the vat and tell them to whistle for the fee. They are effectively offering you a service. If you refuse they'll go after LM.

See : http://www.fedex.com/gb/rates/ratesinfo.html#dt

Thanks

I will have to rey and find it as I threw it in disgust

Did you hear any more from Fed-ex or LM on the fee they want to levy for these Chinese items ?
I ask as I've just received my invoice from the gits (only just received it as the dog ate another piece of mail totally and chewed this one at the corner) for my lightset.
Their £17.65 breaks down as £7.15 VAT and £10.50 Clearance Administration Charge.
I'm thinking that they can whistle - certainly, as I've read here the admin charge as that is something that is additional to the contracted and agreed fee that I knew that Fed-ex were getting when I placed the order - Lightmalls forced me to use them at an additional cost of around $17 so why they should be getting another £10 - around $16, I don't know or like !
Worth punting this back to LM telling them that after paying for Fed-ex at the point of placing the order we're getting stung for the same again by that courier company just for their administration ?

concorde

Any links to British 18650 batteries and a charger? Preferably cheap :-)

Ouija

Concorde wrote:

Ok, cheers. Think I may stick with the top link, seen some shots of the beam and it looks floody enough to me.

As for the other batteries and charger, I'll look into British stuff. I'll probably get 4 batteries so the 1 hour thing doesn't bother me but the safety does!

Trust me. I've got four of them (two 4volt versions and two 8 volt versions) and they aren't very good. The problem is that the spot ruins your night vision as it's so bright with a weak corona (something you can't determine by looking at shots on a computer). Staring at it causes your pupils to contract, letting in less light, so that the spot doesn't seem so bad. Unfortunately, it also makes the corona (which wasn't too bright to start with) look even more feeble which has the tendency to make you run the light on full beam all the time to improve perceived 'flood', giving shorter run times. Even if you soften out the beam with frosted lenses you then have the problem that the whole light only has two brightness settings and the second one is crap (weather you've modded the beam to flood or not).

A good beam pattern with a less defined spot (such as the 501b) tends not to cause your pupils to contract, letting in more light. The corona, which is brighter anyway, looks even stronger still because of this, giving the impression that everything is being reasonably lit up with a good combination of 'flood' and 'throw'. The upshot of all that is that you can run the light on medium mode for much longer runtimes without really noticing any difference in brightness between high and medium.

Lights who's beam pattern is too 'floody' have the opposite problem. They don't ruin your night vision and your pupil stays dilated. However. They spread light so thinly over everything you don't really feel like you can see any distance down the road and, once again, end up ramping up the brightness to max in a brute force attempt to light up everything (a lot of the multi headed T6 lights can be like this).

I should know, i've got over 14 sets of T6 lights in most of the common configurations (including two of the ones you linked to).

The best basic torch is the 501b, which has decent modes (3hr middle mode is only slightly less bright than 1.5hr high mode). You can pick up orange peel reflectors for them for a couple of quid to give them more of a flood if that's what you want (there's a lot of after market upgrades for that model of torch). You can now buy them with two end plugs to allow you to separate the light from the head (see below)..





.. which means it can be used as a head torch or, more interestingly used as a bar extender by simply buying two of these...



and placing them either side of your stem, with the battery section held between them (something i do) and the smaller head on the handlebar.

The best separate head/battery combination is the Sanguan SG-N1000



Why?
- Smaller orange peel reflector gives it a great beam pattern (not too spotty you can't see anything outside the spot, not too floody that your squinting to see a distance down the road)

- It's got three brightness modes (Strong/Medium/Dim) instead of the usual two modes of the head you posted (Strong/Pathetic) which gives it better vesatility as you can run it in medium due to the better beam pattern

- The battery is sealed in rubber and completely waterproof and uses better quality cells.

-The battery holder has two straps and a exit hole instead the usual one strap and less elegant bag that comes with most of these cheaper lights.

- The cabling is extra thick (the same size as brake cable so can use all those brake routing widgets that can be strapped/stuck to the frame for better cable management).

- The connectors are waterproof and click lock into place (can be a bit of a bugger to pull them apart).

- Even the mount is better as it's uses a soft rubber base that doesn't want to slide around your bars every time your bike takes a jolt (the ones that come on the cheaper stuff is hard plastic that doesn't really get a good purchase on the bar and ends up causing the light to point down at the floor after a few bounces and bumps).

- Oh! And the battery charger is a proper UK affair (at least my two were as i got them from a UK seller) with an earthed third pin.

Just my thoughts on things.

And has for batteries... never buy cheap ones (seriously). Can always try Torchy the battery boy. He seems to be a bit short on the better batteries at the moment but keep looking and you might be able to get some 2800mAh SenyBor batteries for a tenner (the more mAh the better the runtimes). Avoid unbranded batteries or anything ending in "fire".

bartimaeus

Where do you get the end plugs from? I've a selection of 510bs and I wouldn't mind trying a head unit + battery configuration - especially if you could sort a 2 cell battery easily. At the moment I tend to run two 501bs on MED - one on my bars and one on my lid - with a P7 SSC on my bars for sections where I need to see more.

EDIT - this one? Or can you get a 'conversion' kit?

concorde

So basically I'd be better off going with 2 or 3 of the 501b torches?!

And British batteries and a charger?!

Cheers for that, very informative.

Ouija

Bartimaeus wrote:

Where do you get the end plugs from? I've a selection of 510bs and I wouldn't mind trying a head unit + battery configuration - especially if you could sort a 2 cell battery easily. At the moment I tend to run two 501bs on MED - one on my bars and one on my lid - with a P7 SSC on my bars for sections where I need to see more.

EDIT - this one? Or can you get a 'conversion' kit?

That's the one. Still waiting for mine to show up, though i won't be using it as a head torch. I'll probably use it to replace the ninety degree utrafire i currently use as a bar extender/backup light.

Ouija

Concorde wrote:

So basically I'd be better off going with 2 or 3 of the 501b torches?!

And British batteries and a charger?!

Cheers for that, very informative.

Got loads of both. But for convenience, the torches are better with less faffing around with cabling and figuring out where to put the battery pack. 4 volt T6 torches only put out slightly less light than the 8 volt separate head/battery combos, cutting the number of batteries that need to be lugged around by half (8 volts only increases brightness by 10 or 15% but doubles the number of batteries needed, so is a bit of a false economy). You could pretty much ride coast to coast at night with a 501b on medium with two/three spare batteries in your pocket while those separate 8v head/battery units with 4 cell battery packs wouldn't even get you the first 30 miles, lasting just three hours (largely because you run them at full beam or nothing as the second mode is about a quarter brightness and no use for anything). You'd literally need to carry four battery packs (made up of 16 18650 cells) to cover the same distance.

Also been playing with one of these lately....



and am quite impressed. It uses the much, much larger 26650 battery for double the amount of runtime but retains the small head/reflector size of a 501b (the bodies thicker, but not the head unit). Kinda heavy, but then it would replace the two 501b torches and batteries i sometimes use on the bars.

concorde

Haha, and he throws another option in to the mix!

3 501b torches is my current option! That should suffice right?

Or I may go with one P7 on the bars(wider beam) and a 501b torch on lid (narrow beam).

Northwind

Ouija wrote:

those separate 8v head/battery units with 4 cell battery packs wouldn't even get you the first 30 miles, lasting just three hours (largely because you run them at full beam or nothing as the second mode is about a quarter brightness and no use for anything). You'd literally need to carry four battery packs (made up of 16 18650 cells) to cover the same distance.

Ooh, massive assumption there. sure, the cheaper ones usually have poor low-modes but If you take something like the MJ-872, the lowest power mode is still more than enough to ride by and lasts... Well, I don't know how long it lasts tbh, but it's at least 10 hours. The second bottom mode is a nice night-riding power and IIRC gives 7 hours. (full power is atomic madness tbh)

Ouija

Northwind wrote:

Ooh, massive assumption there. sure, the cheaper ones usually have poor low-modes but If you take something like the MJ-872, the lowest power mode is still more than enough to ride by and lasts... Well, I don't know how long it lasts tbh, but it's at least 10 hours. The second bottom mode is a nice night-riding power and IIRC gives 7 hours. (full power is atomic madness tbh)

Yes, but your talking about a high end Magicshine light that costs around a hundred quid, not the cheap knock off's that cost £30, which is what we've been discussing. Tha'ts why i recommended the more expensive Sanguan one instead, which typically goes for the $50 mark (though i picked mine up for just £19 ) and has better build quality and more modes to allow for more run time. The Magicshine ones also come with better reflectors and beam patterns, batteries etc, as does the Sanguan. But the cheaper head/battery combo lights the OP is asking about from DealExtreme are utter garbage (i own enough of them to know).

And even the better head/battery combos like the Magicshine and Sanguan will still eat through twice as many batteries in medium output mode than a 4v torch like the 501b or Trustfire A8.

concorde

New shopping cart then:

1 x Ultrafire 502b P7 900Lm (Bars) - http://www.bestofferbuy.com/UltraFire-WF502B-SSCP7CSXO-3Mode-900Lumen-LED-Flashlight-w-Clip-p-63154.html?currency=GBP&utm_source=gbase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gbase_uk

2 x Ultrafire 501b Xm-LT6 510 Lm (Lid) - http://dx.com/p/ultrafire-wf-501b-xm-lt6-5-mode-510-lumen-memory-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-1-18650-55241

1x Bar clip

Batteries from... somewhere. Hearing mixed things, you saying don't get foreign, others saying foreign is fine and to just charge them with a timer socket for 4hrs. Or rip open a laptop battery for some. Hmmmmmm

My good to go? Don't want to buy then think I've made a mistake?!

Should get the lot for £50

Cheers

diy

Concorde wrote:

So basically I'd be better off going with 2 or 3 of the 501b torches?!

And British batteries and a charger?!

Cheers for that, very informative.

Laptop cells from eBay are a good alternative. British batteries could just be the same crap from china sold by a uk seller. Lenovo and dell packs have good 18650 internals. My 10 in 1 power pack makes a reasonable charger though I have some oem chargers fom eBay too.

When you take in to account all the vat and FedEx bollox, i am back to recommending 501b with oem charger and laptop cells.

concorde

diy wrote:

Concorde wrote:

So basically I'd be better off going with 2 or 3 of the 501b torches?!

And British batteries and a charger?!

Cheers for that, very informative.

Laptop cells from eBay are a good alternative. British batteries could just be the same crap from china sold by a uk seller. Lenovo and dell packs have good 18650 internals. My 10 in 1 power pack makes a reasonable charger though I have some oem chargers fom eBay too.

When you take in to account all the vat and FedEx bollox, i am back to recommending 501b with oem charger and laptop cells.

Ok cheers for that, got a couple of old lappys in the house so I'll have great fun smashing them open :-)

cloudynights

buy hope, no faffing with batteries changing every hour, works in all weather, switch on and forget

Northwind

cloudynights wrote:

buy hope, no faffing with batteries changing every hour, works in all weather, switch on and forget

Eh... Ironic this, because the current Hopes are crap for reliability- they used the wrong cable so it embrittles over time and snaps. Hope, being Hope, will replace this quickly under warranty with no fuss, but with another one which will also embrittle over time and snap.

Oh and it's £220 for a light that performs absolutely identically to the £70 Magicshine MJ-872. But that's OK because it's made in england, apart from 90% of it.

Ouija

+1

Hope are overpriced and underspecified. That's why this thread exists in the first place... to guide people to cheaper lights that throw out the same, if not more, light at a fraction of the price. Personally, i wouldn't spend more than a hundred quid on a set of lights.

supersonic

My current preferred set up is the 30 quid magic shine clone and a 501b with a SSC P7. The clone is angled far down the trail, the P7 not far infront of the wheel - provides a nice pattern. Only prob is the torch runs out faster, but just take an extra cell.