Dale Farm eviction

u05harrisb
u05harrisb Posts: 531
edited October 2011 in The bottom bracket
what do you guys all think, good or bad?

im getting quite bored of the whole human rights rubbish! although i do think throwing out 50+ people all in one go is only just gonna make the situation in the local area worse?! mabye travellers/gypsys should all be sent into there own little comunity...Australia perhaps :twisted:

lets see what can of worms we have opened today :lol:
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Comments

  • fast as fupp
    fast as fupp Posts: 2,277
    so you dont think that human beings should have basic rights enshrined in law?
    'dont forget lads, one evertonian is worth twenty kopites'
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Bottom line: If I was to build on my land, with out planning permission, then the council would have it bulldozed, or altered to fit the regulations pertaining to the land. So why should it be any different for the Gypsies ?

    As the land is greenbelt land, they're not allowed to build on it. Full stop.
    They're not exempt from the rules of the land that the rest of us have to abide to.

    These claims that it's ethnic cleansing, or racism are f*cking rediculous !!!

    Anyway, they're travellers, so why are they so bothered about travelling ?
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    not sure what or who's human rights law is being violated, the right to disopbey the laws of the land and put up a squatters camp wherever you like, the right to live in a scrapyard? they're travellers supposedly, get travellin!
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    The Daily Mash pretty much summed it up today

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 109194317/
  • lemon63
    lemon63 Posts: 253
    Funny how you only see women & kids from the camp on tv, never any of the gypsy men.
  • drummondjhn
    drummondjhn Posts: 175
    travellers my a**e they have been there for 10year get moving
    Life is not a spectator sport
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    fast as fupp wrote:
    so you dont think that human beings should have basic rights enshrined in law?

    Which rights? They are only being asked to follow the same rules as the rest of us are they not?

    I actually think the most culpable party is the council/legal system, I mean 10yrs to sort this out?! Considering the nation has gradually drifted into a nation of pen-pushing monkeys someone somewhere has been remarkably slow at doing the pushing. It's needs looking at as it's failed both parties here imo.

    Interestingly some news reports say that 'professional' protesters considerably out-number the travellers left on the site now. Not sure how accurate that is but I've read a bit about them before and they really are a waste of space.
  • u05harrisb
    u05harrisb Posts: 531
    yeh heard alot about all the "Professional" protesters from amnesty and such, but dont get my wrong i think amnesty internationals great but i think so many people are just jumping on band wagons for publicity and to make things appear more serious than it actually is! really gets me going with so much in the news about prisoners aloud out after a year after killing a man because he has a child, you killed a guy/commited a crime, you should pay for it. its ridiculous! they should have the right to build in the same manner as you or me, not just bypass everything then when they realise they cant kick up a fuss about racial discrimination!
  • bobtbuilder
    bobtbuilder Posts: 1,537
    MattC59 wrote:
    Bottom line: If I was to build on my land, with out planning permission, then the council would have it bulldozed, or altered to fit the regulations pertaining to the land. So why should it be any different for the Gypsies ?

    As the land is greenbelt land, they're not allowed to build on it. Full stop.
    They're not exempt from the rules of the land that the rest of us have to abide to.

    These claims that it's ethnic cleansing, or racism are f*cking rediculous !!!

    Anyway, they're travellers, so why are they so bothered about travelling ?

    WHS^^^^^
  • SmellTheGlove
    SmellTheGlove Posts: 697
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    The Daily Mash pretty much summed it up today

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 109194317/

    "...they said I simply would not believe the extent to which that was the law..."
    Mash nails it again!

    On the general point though, if residents own the land I don't understand how they can be evicted. Sure enough, buildings could be bulldozed, likely a good thing on green belt, but when was anyone thrown off their own property for good, for building say an extension to a house/bungalow whatever? Should all property owners fear the worst, or does it explain the granting of an injunction, because without it there would be a string of demands for the Duke of Westimister to be chucked out of most of central London?
    "Consider the grebe..."
  • Special K
    Special K Posts: 449
    Scum.

    Move along and play by the same rules as the rest of us. Especially if you're playing the Rights card to attempt to get what you want.
    "There are holes in the sky,
    Where the rain gets in.
    But they're ever so small
    That's why rain is thin. " Spike Milligan
  • The Real Radioactiveman
    The Real Radioactiveman Posts: 128
    fast as fupp wrote:
    so you dont think that human beings should have basic rights enshrined in law?

    What you meant the human right to engage in organised crime, extort money from people for substandard work, avoid paying tax,generaly be offensive to the populus and set up home where they please without adhering to planning laws?

    Humans rights they are not. These people are not law abiding citizens and the majority of recent tv coverage "big fat gypsy weddings" shows them as hard done by but it doesn't show how these people make a living.

    I think they should be evicted by the RAF and using one of these

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_air_bomb

    PS I live in an area with a high proportion of so called travellers so have first hand experiences of their anti social behaviour
    Focus Cayo Pro
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  • mouth
    mouth Posts: 1,195
    Maybe all their local supporters will let them pitch a caravan each in their garden. Problem solvd all round.
    The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    SmellTheGlove wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    The Daily Mash pretty much summed it up today

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 109194317/

    "...they said I simply would not believe the extent to which that was the law..."
    Mash nails it again!

    On the general point though, if residents own the land I don't understand how they can be evicted. Sure enough, buildings could be bulldozed, likely a good thing on green belt, but when was anyone thrown off their own property for good, for building say an extension to a house/bungalow whatever? Should all property owners fear the worst, or does it explain the granting of an injunction, because without it there would be a string of demands for the Duke of Westimister to be chucked out of most of central London?
    They can be evicted as, whilst they own the land, they don't have permission to live on it.

    Regarding your comment I've high ighted above, If you build without the necessary planning permission, and the council find out, they have every right to ask you to take down the building / extention. If you don't they can have you evicted for safety reasons, whilst the building / extension is taken down.

    In this case, once the buildings which contravene the planning regs have been removed, the travellers will have access to their land again.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    drummondjhn wrote:
    travellers my a**e they have been there for 10year get moving


    ^ this.
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Surely someone's going to attempt to justify the Travellers' rights to break the law and do what ever the f*ck they like ?
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • DIESELDOG
    DIESELDOG Posts: 2,087
    MattC59 wrote:
    Surely someone's going to attempt to justify the Travellers' rights to break the law and do what ever the f*ck they like ?

    No but you have to admit, they make great TV...

    Love n hugs

    DD
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    www.onemanandhisbike.co.uk
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    DIESELDOG wrote:
    MattC59 wrote:
    Surely someone's going to attempt to justify the Travellers' rights to break the law and do what ever the f*ck they like ?

    No but you have to admit, they make great TV...

    Love n hugs

    DD
    Fair point :D
    They should just move those two tw*ts who concreted their arms into the oil drum, into another field, and leave them there !
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • mr_poll
    mr_poll Posts: 1,547
    Wow the tolerance in the forum is at an all time high tonight - I am glad that the same people who post on here dont post about being badly treated on the roads when as a minority they get overlooked by motorists, police, the council not caring about potholes etc etc.

    A point keeps getting made about the fact this is greenbelt land - firstly have any of you seen what it looked like 10 years ago. It was a bloody scrap yard not exactly Englands green and pleasant land.

    Secondly if you are so bothered about greenbelt land, please start a thread or lobbying MP's about the changes to planning law which will erode the status of greenbelt land and allow large private land owners to build on swathes of land for their own purposes.

    Then we move to issue of what happens post eviction. The local primary school has a total of 105 kids in it 103 are from Dale Farm, thats a few teachers on the dole queue. Next housing, like it or not people do have rights in this country to housing and the state will help them, kicking people out of a sustainable community means that you as a tax payer will be footing the bill as families are rehoused.
    Live locally? Dont worry that your library has shut down or your Mum/Gran cannot have meals on wheels, or that the pothole that caused your 4th puncture this month is still not repaired - Basildon council have set aside a THIRD of their budget to kick these "gippo's" off the land. Oh and on top of as confirmed by the council the council tax revenue that the scrounging Scum (as I think special K put it) will stop immediately.


    Anyway sorry for boring you all with a slightly different look at things, crack open a can of stella put your feet up, I know we all loved laughing and pointing at My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding you can switch over to Sky News now and get 24 hours a day of this meanwhile like minded people like Kay Burley will tell you all about it and you can feel warm inside that justice is being done. (Whilst tutting as you read about the Pink Floyd guitarist having to demolish his bike shed due to ridiculous planning laws damn those narrow minded councils http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038546/Pink-Floyd-star-David-Gilmour-ordered-pull-beach-hut-bicycle-shed.html )
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    chuck them out

    society works because people play by the rules. Okay we don't always obey every single one but this is planning permission not wheelieing in front of a school.

    I paid a fortune to get my extension passed, and put a lot of work into it.

    As soon as you let this lot off they'll be riots and lootings..... hang on a minute..
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    mr_poll wrote:

    A point keeps getting made about the fact this is greenbelt land - firstly have any of you seen what it looked like 10 years ago. It was a bloody scrap yard not exactly Englands green and pleasant land.

    My understanding was that some properties are on the original scrapyard site and the ones involved in the dispute are illegally on another piece of land behind it? So many conflicting stories. The point still stands though, as far as I can make out it's not unreasonable to ask them to abide by the same rules as the rest of us is it? I have family members on council housing lists for a very long time, should they also build wherever they see fit and hide behind the cloak of some sort of ethnicity?
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    mr_poll wrote:
    Wow the tolerance in the forum is at an all time high tonight ...

    I think they'd get a bit more "tolerance" if people's experiences of travellers weren't almost universally bad.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    edited September 2011
    I don't like some laws but I don't get to pick and choose which ones I obey or don't (like tax, metal theft and planning) because of some oirish accent.
  • mr_poll
    mr_poll Posts: 1,547
    verylonglegs wrote:
    mr_poll wrote:

    A point keeps getting made about the fact this is greenbelt land - firstly have any of you seen what it looked like 10 years ago. It was a bloody scrap yard not exactly Englands green and pleasant land.

    My understanding was that some properties are on the original scrapyard site and the ones involved in the dispute are illegally on another piece of land behind it? So many conflicting stories. The point still stands though, as far as I can make out it's not unreasonable to ask them to abide by the same rules as the rest of us is it? I have family members on council housing lists for a very long time, should they also build wherever they see fit and hide behind the cloak of some sort of ethnicity?

    Finally a measured point of view. Yes there are conflicting stories and i would be nice if we were allowed to read them from an unbiased media rather being fed one set of information which results in the bile being regurgitated on this thread.
    Making people play the rules of society also means that those people have to feel in some way part of society - this goes way back, look at the Battle of the Beanfield reports and stories - this echo's that and I hope to God it doesnt end the same way. We have already seen this year what a group does when it feels marginalised by society and building a few mobile homes and fences is a hill of beans compared to the riots and social breakdown we have.
    As for waiting lists for homes - to be honest if a member of your family in an attempt to get a roof over their head moved into a semi derelict home and claimed squatters rights, and did the place up then I wouldnt have an issue. If they are awaiting a home then my guess that the council has them in a B and B somewhere running up a huge bill. As a tax payer and family member what would you prefer.
    Cloak of ethnicity - hmmm this is where we get to dodgier ground. We can live in a melting pot of race, religion, creeds and beliefs or we cant it's a black and white issue. Wanna be a Jedi, wear a cross to work, where a full face veil or be a traveller thats up to you. However if you want the state to intervene and dictate whats right and wrong and what we can or cant believe then we are opening a whole can of worms. The challenge comes in running a lawful, peaceful society whilst balancing others beliefs - stating ppl are hiding behind a cloak of ethnicity/religion/race/sexual orientation isnt really helpful to achieving that goal.
  • mr_poll
    mr_poll Posts: 1,547
    I wonder if the moderators will take an interest in this thread.

    If I call a fellow poster a naughty name i will be warned or banned. Call an entire ethnic group Scum, thieves, or state that you believe they should be napalmed to death and I wonder what happens?

    Can you all take a step back and try replacing the words Gypsy or Traveller with the word jew or gay or woman or African and re read your comments.

    Frank the tank wrote:
    They don't live by the rule of law, but when it comes to bite them they endevour to hide behind it.

    I wouldn't kick them off their land I'd lock all the entrances/exits so the big bad baliffs couldn't get in at the precious little darlings, then I'd napalm the place.

    Nice one Frank you just designed a concentration camp for travellers, your talents are wasted in England 2011.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    drummondjhn wrote:
    travellers my a**e they have been there for 10year get moving


    ^ this.

    Pretty sure that's a name that's been given to them.

    You could all call me "Mr Gay" but that wouldn't necessarily mean I was, or should be, gay.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    The-beast wrote:
    Round them all up put them on a boat heading to Ireland, and torpedo it, we need a gypsy cull


    C'mon. You shouldn't say stuff like this in public.

    Use your brain.

    Replace Gypsy with any other racial group and see how that sits with you.
    _
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Agreed comments like those aren't helpful - but the majority of criticisms of travellers on this thread are fair and based on experience.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • smurfylicious
    smurfylicious Posts: 96
    Even the United Nations has been meddling in the Dale Farm situation. What right does the UN have to undermine laws made by democratically elected representatives, and to interfere in the judicial process that resulted in an eviction notice?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    Agreed comments like those aren't helpful - but the majority of criticisms of travellers on this thread are fair and based on experience.

    I don't care about the squatters or whoever they are.

    I like to be the racism police every now and then.

    Don't care what experiences people have, it's not an excuse.

    For what it's worth, a similar scenario happend in Cottenham, which was the village down the road from me. Big travelling community settled in the village.

    Residents responded by refusing to pay council tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -camp.html

    Can't quite see why this one is getting attention. Yemen is kicking off.
    _

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