Evans/BMC Warranty

mjl1982

Please can some one advise me please…

Here’s my problem:

3 weeks ago I discovered a crack on BMC SR02 which I purchased from Evans in April this year. I’ve never had an accident on my bike, not a scratch on the bike so god knows how the crack happened.

Yesterday I got a phone call, my bike frame has now arrived from Switzerland and I can pick the bike up from Evans Waterloo Cut store. Today I got a phone call saying it’s the SR01 frame and they’ve assembles my bike together?!

Now the problem is that I have the cantilevers, saddle and everything else from the SR02 is on the SR01 frame… which I’m not comfortable with as I feel the bike doesn’t look right.

So could some one please answer?

Why would BMC send out the wrong frame when it clashes with the rest of the bike?
Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill because Evans will not swap over the saddle etc?

by the way , the frames are both aluminium - according to the Evans website.

Cheers

MJL

Monty Dog

I think that you'll find that the terms of the warranty are a 'suitable' replacement at the discretion of the manufacturer - you don't state whether there is any material difference between the two or it's just aesthetics?

mjl1982

According to Evans website there is no difference regarding the material of the frame.

SR02 Frame:ISC triple butted hydroformed
SR02Fork:BMC Straightedge Carbon with alloy steerer tube
SR01Frame:ISC triple butted hydroformed
SR01Fork:BMC Straightedge Carbon with alloy steerer tube

Monty Dog

So, just to be clear - they've given you the frame from the higher model and you have cause for complaint because it doesn't look right? :roll:

merak

Well as far as I can see the frames are identical other than finish - only the build kit is different and that is being transferred from the old bike. So assuming that - (but if it's a better frame then I'd go for the better frame),- why should you have to compromise on aesthetics because the frame on your three week old bike is defective? If it was me I would demand a matching frame because aesthetics is one thing that I choose when I buy a bike. At the very least I would demand that the components that are a mismatch (saddle, bar tape, tyres?) are replaced with components that match the replacement frame.

ads2k

Surely they can at least change the tape to black, to be honest the saddle wouldn't bother as I'd probably change it anyway.

I'd push for the tape due to the hassle and being without your bike for a couple of weeks.

tmg

I'd agree with whats been said. They have upgraded the frame so you should thank them for doing that. However the guys at Evans should also appreciate that the whole look of the bike is also important and you have been inconvenienced.

So on that note I would go into the store, be nice and polite and thank them for what they have done so far, Clearly point out what's wrong with the 'new' build, take in a pic of a built up bike with your new frame so you can show them how it was designed to look like in terms of colour scheme for that frame The lay out what you'd like them to do in order to make you a happy punter again, changing seats and bar tape should be a simple thing and to be honest is not a huge ask

My experience of Evans is that they are normally quite amenable when you push your point, I bought my current bike from them, after three months the rear mech failed and went into my rear wheel, After some discussion and me sending them the mech Evans replaced the mech and other parts and also paid for all the repairs at a local LBS as there nearest store was too far away. If the store won't play fair call Evans customer services and persue that way

mjl1982

Monty Dog wrote:

So, just to be clear - they've given you the frame from the higher model and you have cause for complaint because it doesn't look right? :roll:

Same frame as stated above.... :roll:

mjl1982

Yes same frame just a different colour.

Exactly my point Merak, why should I compromise the aesthetics? Since I've had the bike I have had major problems with the wheels, nipples becoming loose and puncturing the tyres within my 2nd ride with the bike. Ive been complaining about the wheels many of times as now and then I've lost spokes, punctures and keeping taking the wheel to my local bike shop. (also taken the wheels to Evans twice to get fixed.)

They've now used new wheels on my new frame - which is good of them and I've got new bar tape. Just my frustrations is the look of the bike now... cantilevers & the saddle.

Is it really unreasonable of me to get the right cantilevers & saddle? Its not like I'm asking for the Shimano Ultegra groupset which comes with the SR01.

I just want your views on this... I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonalbe on what I'm asking. This is my first ever bike, bike I like the look and one of the reasons which motivates me to use it.

sumosprintstar

I had real issues with Evans and subsequently took my custom elsewhere. BMC have replaced the frame, I would not hold my breath on Evans giving you anything.

The bottom line is whether you are happy or not. If not, you need to make sure you do not settle. You will regret it long term.

tmg

Speak to shop manager, if he won't budge go to customer services and see what they have to say about things based on your experiences with total purchase so far.

How much would it cost you to change what you feel needs changing? That will give you a better feel for whether Evans will go with it or not, it will cost them c 50% of what it will cost you as a rough guide.

mjl1982

sumosprintstar wrote:

I had real issues with Evans and subsequently took my custom elsewhere. BMC have replaced the frame, I would not hold my breath on Evans giving you anything.

The bottom line is whether you are happy or not. If not, you need to make sure you do not settle. You will regret it long term.

Thanks for your input. I've not been impressed with Evans to be honest. Will send customer services a email tomorrow and see what there reply will be....

MountainMonster

BMC offers 2 versions of every model, the 01 and 02 series. The only difference between the 2 is the specification of the bike, with the 01 series having a higher spec. The frames will be exactly the same, just maybe not a color you are happy with. They have not sent the wrong frame at all since there is only one frame for each model, not differences between the 2 tiers.

Personally, I see no cause for worry or complaining. Warranty items may, or may not, be exact replacements, and as such, sometimes the color you currently have may not be available. Would you rather wait a while for the frame to be produced, or have a slightly off matching colour scheme?

mjl1982

tmg wrote:

Speak to shop manager, if he won't budge go to customer services and see what they have to say about things based on your experiences with total purchase so far.

How much would it cost you to change what you feel needs changing? That will give you a better feel for whether Evans will go with it or not, it will cost them c 50% of what it will cost you as a rough guide.

The manager wouldnt budge today, he thinks he's done enough! I wanted to leave the bike there to make a statement, but I'm doing a ride all of this weekend. So felt like I had to just take it as I've been waiting for a few weeks.

I'm not sure to be honest, trying to find prices for Scor saddles & scor cantilevers... but no joy!

merak

Well, I'm with you mjl, I think this is just shoddy of Evans. They sold you a bike with a frame that was defective that costs the best part of a grand, and it's their job to get you back to where you would have been if the bike had been right in the first place. Your description makes it sound as if the manager at Evans thinks he's doing you a favour, whereas he should be apologetic and doing every reasonable thing to make you happy.

I don't understand how others on this thread can be so blase about accepting a compromise on your behalf when your bike is almost brand new.

If you bought the bike with a credit card you might have another line of attack there.

What do you mean by cantilevers?

rich164h

Out of interest, what/where was the crack? I've got a strange crack/creaking sound now on my BMC when I go over bumps in the road (whether I'm pedalling or not) that sounds different to anything I've had before i.e. not just dry BB or pedals, or seat post for instance. My first thought when I heard it was "cracked frame" but I can't see any damage. Then again it needs a clean anyway so maybe a hairline crack wouldn't be obvious at the moment. If there's a weakness in the design it would be good to know where to look more closely.

The above isn't to claim that there is a weakness in the frame or that there's any problem whatsoever with BMC products, far from it, I'm really happy with my bike. I'd just rather be safe than sorry that's all.

mjl1982

Thanks Merak! I feel Evans can jusrt hide behind the warranty!! The bike cost me £1300 and put down 10% with payments over 1yr.

'What do you mean by cantilevers?' Haha, I'm sorry, this is my first bike and dont know whats what!! :oops:

I'm trying to find another discription of what I mean..haha!!

mjl1982

rich164h wrote:

Out of interest, what/where was the crack? I've got a strange crack/creaking sound now on my BMC when I go over bumps in the road (whether I'm pedalling or not) that sounds different to anything I've had before i.e. not just dry BB or pedals, or seat post for instance. My first thought when I heard it was "cracked frame" but I can't see any damage. Then again it needs a clean anyway so maybe a hairline crack wouldn't be obvious at the moment. If there's a weakness in the design it would be good to know where to look more closely.

The above isn't to claim that there is a weakness in the frame or that there's any problem whatsoever with BMC products, far from it, I'm really happy with my bike. I'd just rather be safe than sorry that's all.

The crack was on the seattube it was about 8-10mm long horizontally just above the weld.

mjl1982

tmg wrote:

I'd agree with whats been said. They have upgraded the frame so you should thank them for doing that. However the guys at Evans should also appreciate that the whole look of the bike is also important and you have been inconvenienced.

So on that note I would go into the store, be nice and polite and thank them for what they have done so far, Clearly point out what's wrong with the 'new' build, take in a pic of a built up bike with your new frame so you can show them how it was designed to look like in terms of colour scheme for that frame The lay out what you'd like them to do in order to make you a happy punter again, changing seats and bar tape should be a simple thing and to be honest is not a huge ask

My experience of Evans is that they are normally quite amenable when you push your point, I bought my current bike from them, after three months the rear mech failed and went into my rear wheel, After some discussion and me sending them the mech Evans replaced the mech and other parts and also paid for all the repairs at a local LBS as there nearest store was too far away. If the store won't play fair call Evans customer services and persue that way

Sorry I missed your post.

The thing is its not a upgrade, it’s the same frame which is a different colour which doesn’t match the rest of the bike.

They have been polite to me, so I would never be rude to them. Even though I’m frustrated that they will not change what I have requested. I would always try to get my point across in a polite manner.

I will take a photo in a minute of the bike to assist my concerns of the look of the bike to send to Evans Customer service.

Erudin

I'd want the original frame colour myself, or at least the mismatched components changed, or my money back. Give Consumer Direct a ring if you need advice. Put your complaint in writing (mention Sale of Goods Act 1979), send it recorded delivery and keep a copy.


See also:http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#goods
"When goods are faulty, if you return them within six months then it's up to the shop to prove they weren't faulty when you bought them."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/consumer/2009/07/03/sale_of_goods_act_letter_downl.html
"This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption the goods were faulty when sold.

My goods are not [delete as appropriate - as described/fit for purpose/of satisfactory quality] and I wish to claim a [delete as appropriate - repair/replacement/refund] of my goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended."

nicklouse

mjl1982
have you read the warrenty that BMC gives?

6. Scope of the warranty services

BMC shall undertake the following services based on this warranty during the respective warranty periods, whereby the decision for repair or replacement shall be the subject to the authority of BMC alone:
Repair or replacement with parts/components of the same value, whereby the replacement may vary from that being replaced with regard to the model and/or color
If all original components cannot be used due to the replacement of the frame, BMC shall not be liable for their replacement, but is willing to offer these components at special rates
Services that are not included in the warranty and lie within the area of expertise of the dealer as well as cleaning of bicycles that are delivered dirty shall be charged at the hourly rate and the costs incurred for materials and transport shall be charged
A service performed under warranty (repair/replacement) shall not extend the original warranty
Labor costs/wages for warranty work as well as labor costs/wages for maintenance work under the warranty terms (operating instructions) shall not be covered by the warranty and are charged to the buyer

Claims other than those above and those related to parts/components shall not exist; not only - but especially - collateral damage and consequential damage such as penalties and fines shall therefore be excluded from this warranty.

from

http://www.bmc-racing.com/int-en/service/warranty.html

I dont think you will get to far other than buying new parts at a reduced rate in the new colours if you want to.

merak

Erudin wrote:

Ah, I assume this is an explanation of what mjl meant by cantilevers - actually these are calipers. Cantilevers are a different design of brake normally used on cross bikes and tandems.

Anyway, if mjl wants these changed that might explain some of the reluctance of Evans - they are almost certainly specials for BMC and difficult for Evans to source in that grey colour. The standard colour is, I think black and wouldn't look too out of place on the new frame, but I think white would look absolutely naff.

(BTW, old curmudgeon that I am, I think the best colour for road calipers is silvery polished aluminium).

mjl1982

Erudin wrote:

I'd want the original frame colour myself, or at least the mismatched components changed, or my money back. Give Consumer Direct a ring if you need advice. Put your complaint in writing (mention Sale of Goods Act 1979), send it recorded delivery and keep a copy.


See also:http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#goods
"When goods are faulty, if you return them within six months then it's up to the shop to prove they weren't faulty when you bought them."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/consumer/2009/07/03/sale_of_goods_act_letter_downl.html
"This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption the goods were faulty when sold.

My goods are not [delete as appropriate - as described/fit for purpose/of satisfactory quality] and I wish to claim a [delete as appropriate - repair/replacement/refund] of my goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended."

Thanks for this Erudin, that info is very helpful, also thanks for posting the photos.
I've jsut taken some photos and will post on here what it looks like.

mjl1982

nicklouse wrote:

mjl1982
have you read the warrenty that BMC gives?

6. Scope of the warranty services

BMC shall undertake the following services based on this warranty during the respective warranty periods, whereby the decision for repair or replacement shall be the subject to the authority of BMC alone:
Repair or replacement with parts/components of the same value, whereby the replacement may vary from that being replaced with regard to the model and/or color
If all original components cannot be used due to the replacement of the frame, BMC shall not be liable for their replacement, but is willing to offer these components at special rates
Services that are not included in the warranty and lie within the area of expertise of the dealer as well as cleaning of bicycles that are delivered dirty shall be charged at the hourly rate and the costs incurred for materials and transport shall be charged
A service performed under warranty (repair/replacement) shall not extend the original warranty
Labor costs/wages for warranty work as well as labor costs/wages for maintenance work under the warranty terms (operating instructions) shall not be covered by the warranty and are charged to the buyer

Claims other than those above and those related to parts/components shall not exist; not only - but especially - collateral damage and consequential damage such as penalties and fines shall therefore be excluded from this warranty.

from

http://www.bmc-racing.com/int-en/service/warranty.html

I dont think you will get to far other than buying new parts at a reduced rate in the new colours if you want to.

Thanks, perhaps it might have to come to me to pay for the changes if all else fail.
Still think though they would help with assisting me with this, especially spending £1300!

optimisticbiker

nicklouse wrote:

mjl1982
have you read the warrenty that BMC gives?

...

from

http://www.bmc-racing.com/int-en/service/warranty.html

I dont think you will get to far other than buying new parts at a reduced rate in the new colours if you want to.

Having said that, the manufacturers warranty cannot and does not over-ride your statuatory rights. Evans made the choice to take the matter to take the matter to BMC and get the frame replaced... however the OP has a statuatory right to reject the bike and ask for a full refund or its replacement to his satsifaction at the sellers expense, how they offset it with the manufacturer is up to them....

You wouldnt buy a new car and if an alloy was faulty expect to accept a different style on one wheel only, or a different colour armchair in a faulty three-piece suite? Same applies here... Evans have SR02 in stock in several stores, they should replace the bike in total and take it up with BMC...

mjl1982

merak wrote:

Erudin wrote:

Ah, I assume this is an explanation of what mjl meant by cantilevers - actually these are calipers. Cantilevers are a different design of brake normally used on cross bikes and tandems.

Anyway, if mjl wants these changed that might explain some of the reluctance of Evans - they are almost certainly specials for BMC and difficult for Evans to source in that grey colour. The standard colour is, I think black and wouldn't look too out of place on the new frame, but I think white would look absolutely naff.

(BTW, old curmudgeon that I am, I think the best colour for road calipers is silvery polished aluminium).

Calipers! Someone at work did tell me that today... couldn’t remember what he said though!
They have actually got the SR01 as a complete bike in there basement which is frustrating! As I feel they can just get the seat and callipers of that.... things are never that straight forward though!
And the white I believe does look well naff... I will show you once I sussed out how I put the photos on here!

mjl1982

mjl1982

@OB
Thanks, some good points which help me with what I will put in front of Evans tomorrow.
‘’You wouldnt buy a new car and if an alloy was faulty expect to accept a different style on one wheel only, or a different colour armchair in a faulty three-piece suite?’’
^Great way of putting it! Wish I said that today in the store!!

MountainMonster

Minus the seat, I think the bike actually looks quite nice.

optimisticbiker

mjl1982 wrote:

@OB
Thanks, some good points which help me with what I will put in front of Evans tomorrow.
‘’You wouldnt buy a new car and if an alloy was faulty expect to accept a different style on one wheel only, or a different colour armchair in a faulty three-piece suite?’’
^Great way of putting it! Wish I said that today in the store!!

Thanks. I was nearly tempted by an SR02 (I agree it looks better in the white) but think I'll go back to my 'carbon commuter' plan...

Duffer65

FWIW. I think the white callipers look ok, if it was my bike I could live with them. Why not ask Evans to throw in a Charge Spoon or Knife as a gesture of goodwill and leave it at that?