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OT - is this a human rights breach?

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  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,111
    cjcp wrote:
    As harsh as these laws may be, this country is densely populated and there need to be immigration controls. Why only move now? Why not a few years ago? "Missing my husband" was something that could easily gave been anticipated.

    Cultural differences? I guess it was easier for her to move first - maybe she had particular job skills, or could speak a bit of English? Its not uncommon in large parts of the world for people to leave their families for years in search of a better life.

    Immigration is a tricky one - its tempting to put up the "we're full" signs, but in reality large parts of the country aren't. We can't stem the flow of immigration from EU countries anyway. It all leaves me thinking that the real purpose for this kind of policy is to keep out certain ethnicities and to be seen to be making a stand.
  • Wallace1492Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    snailracer wrote:
    ...even places in Wales where everyone speaks Welsh.

    I also heard that there are places in France where everyone speaks French!! Who would have thought, send them all home.... (after burning them)
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • Greg TGreg T Posts: 3,266
    snailracer wrote:
    Being able to speak English is not the same as appreciating British values or way of life.

    It is a start though . . .
    Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.

    What would Thora Hurd do?
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Sewinman wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    What are they going to do with all the deaf people?
    pardon?

    The immigrants have to speak and understand English to the level of a 5 or 6 year old...I was just wondering why this a is a prerequisite for citizenship. There are some deaf people who would not pass the test, but they won't kick them out. (Edit:I know they would pass a written/sign one, but that is not the test here).

    This particular rule seems to be very targeted in order to exclude a particular ethinic community from bringing their spouses over. I am glad it is being challenged.

    Whoosh!

    I'm going to have fun with this thread, you should stick around.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    As British Law is determined by case rulings, I hope she is successful.

    I think that it is a disgrace that anyone from the Indian sub-continent, which was so exploited by the British in the past and which, in those days, unflinchingly supported us in our various wars and got little enough thanks for it, should be treated like this.

    Does that extend to Jamaica and if so Africa I mean what with the slavery, forcing us to take English names and language and all....
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • notsobluenotsoblue Posts: 5,838
    cjcp wrote:
    As harsh as these laws may be, this country is densely populated and there need to be immigration controls. Why only move now? Why not a few years ago? "Missing my husband" was something that could easily gave been anticipated.

    I really don't think learning to speak English is too much of a price to pay for all the benefit he will gain from living here. Is it really impossible for him to even try?
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    what are British values and what is the British way of life?
  • snailracersnailracer Posts: 968
    cjcp wrote:
    As harsh as these laws may be, this country is densely populated and there need to be immigration controls. Why only move now? Why not a few years ago? "Missing my husband" was something that could easily gave been anticipated.
    The most densely populated part of this country is London. However, no-one is suggesting London be downsized. If overcrowding is actually a bad thing overall, why don't Londoners move out?
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    I really don't think learning to speak English is too much of a price to pay for all the benefit he will gain from living here. Is it really impossible for him to even try?

    That may be true but why is it important. How about, come on mate, jump through this hoop, there's no real need for you to do it but we want to see your commitment. Come on, think of all those lovely benefits... come on mate. Jump!
  • dhopedhope Posts: 6,699
    what are British values and what is the British way of life?

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  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    He should try the test anyway...he might strike lucky and have a curry order role-play.
  • hfidgenhfidgen Posts: 340
    what are British values and what is the British way of life?

    In east london it's pissing yourself outside the pub on a Saturday night whilst vomiting over your feet.

    Brings a wobble to yer stiff upper lip to see it!
    FCN 4 - BMC CX02
  • dhopedhope Posts: 6,699
    Sewinman wrote:
    He should try the test anyway...he might strike lucky and have a curry order role play.

    Just quoting...
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  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    dhope wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    He should try the test anyway...he might strike lucky and have a curry order role play.

    Just quoting...

    For why?
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    what are British values and what is the British way of life?

    Shopping precincts, shell suits, gold jewellery, ringtones, PAYG phones, Sky TV on a plasma tv big enough to cover the wall of your biggest room, living beyond your means, casual racism, envy of other people's success, an inexplicable love of Premiership football, paying lots of tax, wanting others to pay more tax, being a bit lazy whilst thinking you're not...

    You know, the usual stuff.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

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  • hfidgenhfidgen Posts: 340
    +1

    This is fast becoming my favourite thread of the week :lol:
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  • dhopedhope Posts: 6,699
    Sewinman wrote:
    dhope wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    He should try the test anyway...he might strike lucky and have a curry order role play.

    Just quoting...

    For why?
    Greg66 wrote:
    ... casual racism ...
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    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    bigmat wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    As harsh as these laws may be, this country is densely populated and there need to be immigration controls. Why only move now? Why not a few years ago? "Missing my husband" was something that could easily gave been anticipated.

    Cultural differences? I guess it was easier for her to move first - maybe she had particular job skills, or could speak a bit of English? Its not uncommon in large parts of the world for people to leave their families for years in search of a better life.

    Immigration is a tricky one - its tempting to put up the "we're full" signs, but in reality large parts of the country aren't. We can't stem the flow of immigration from EU countries anyway. It all leaves me thinking that the real purpose for this kind of policy is to keep out certain ethnicities and to be seen to be making a stand.

    Cultural differences may explain it, yes. I had a client who did something similar, but regarding a different country. I'm not pro-freedom of movement in relation to new EU countries either, and while areas of the country aren't full, we can't compel immigrants to live un those parts (cue more breach of human rights arguments if we did). Sounds to me puked a "plan" has gone a bit pear-shaped, but I maybe being overly cynical.
    FCN 2-4.

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    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    so why is it important for him to learn English?
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    so why is it important for him to learn English?

    Why *shouldn't* he learn English? Otherwise he's seemingly looking for an India that's not in India and isn't intending to integrate?
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • Wallace1492Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    so why is it important for him to learn English?

    Let him learn Gaelic and he can come and live in a croft on Harris, he works as a machinist, and could do a dam fine job making some Harris Tweed suits. Even if he can't learn Gaelic, I am sure no-one will mind, I mean I don't think any of the locals up there know what their incoherent mumblings mean anyway, they are far to sozzled with the old "water of life" to care....
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    so why is it important for him to learn English?

    Let him learn Gaelic and he can come and live in a croft on Harris, he works as a machinist, and could do a dam fine job making some Harris Tweed suits. Even if he can't learn Gaelic, I am sure no-one will mind, I mean I don't think any of the locals up there know what their incoherent mumblings mean anyway, they are far to sozzled with the old "water of life" to care....
    :lol:
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • W1W1 Posts: 2,636
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    dhope wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    dhope wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    He should try the test anyway...he might strike lucky and have a curry order role play.

    Just quoting...

    For why?
    Greg66 wrote:
    ... casual racism ...

    I was pointing out the idiocy of this rule by highlighting an area where immigrants and asian culture and language is already part of 'being British'. By speaking his own language he would already be fully integrated into that great bastion of 'Britishness' - the curry. Clearly a bit too subtle.
  • MonkeyMonsterMonkeyMonster Posts: 4,628
    cjcp wrote:
    so why is it important for him to learn English?

    Why *shouldn't* he learn English? Otherwise he's seemingly looking for an India that's not in India and isn't intending to integrate?

    The big man speeketh the truth
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  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    edited July 2011
    If you're going to live permanently in another Country you should be expected to speak the language. Demonstrating that you can at least communicate within the given society demonstrates you have an understanding of it and that, hopefully, will lead to that person being a productive and functioning part of it - no matter how small.

    Too many times have I seen people come over to Britain with no intention of being a part of the society or functioning within it. It is a problem and it does diminish the Country's sense of National identity and pride. Half the problem is that there is a decreasing number of those who are proud to be British.

    Moreover the term "proud to be British" (or English in this examples case) is something that is now more commonly associated with being racist. EDL, BNP et al. That's a said state of affairs.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    maybe if he's too old to learn English he could prove his desire to intergrate in other ways by conforming to British values to the standard of a 5 or 6 year old.
  • londonlivvylondonlivvy Posts: 644
    I really don't think learning to speak English is too much of a price to pay for all the benefit he will gain from living here. Is it really impossible for him to even try?

    That may be true but why is it important. How about, come on mate, jump through this hoop, there's no real need for you to do it but we want to see your commitment. Come on, think of all those lovely benefits... come on mate. Jump!

    There is a need for him to do it, surely? How else is he to integrate into British society? Surely the ability to buy and read a paper, have a brief conversation with someone (whether that be in a shop, in a hospital, on a bus or wherever he may wish to go) is important?
  • W1W1 Posts: 2,636
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.

    Why does this stop them learning English?
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