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OT - is this a human rights breach?

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  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Sewinman wrote:
    dhope wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    dhope wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    He should try the test anyway...he might strike lucky and have a curry order role play.

    Just quoting...

    For why?
    Greg66 wrote:
    ... casual racism ...

    I was pointing out the idiocy of this rule by highlighting an area where immigrants and asian culture and language is already part of 'being British'. By speaking his own language he would already be fully integrated into that great bastion of 'Britishness' - the curry. Clearly a bit too subtle.

    Attempted subtley is no defence to a charge of casual racism.

    Report yourself to your E&D officer, now, for formal re-training.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    How much do five or six year old level English speakers actually contribute to our great nation?

    Can you imagine the outcry if Spain or Portugal tried this with our lovely emmigrants. :shock:
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Sewinman wrote:
    How much do five or six year old level English speakers actually contribute to our great nation?

    Can you imagine the outcry if Spain or Portugal tried this with our lovely emmigrants. :shock:

    And now ageism!

    Is there truly no end to your list of diabolical prejudices?
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    There is a need for him to do it, surely? How else is he to integrate into British society? Surely the ability to buy and read a paper, have a brief conversation with someone (whether that be in a shop, in a hospital, on a bus or wherever he may wish to go) is important?

    I disagree.

    And don't call me Shirley.
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.

    Why does this stop them learning English?

    It does not. It is an extra requirement for citizenship which is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Sewinman wrote:
    How much do five or six year old level English speakers actually contribute to our great nation?

    Can you imagine the outcry if Spain or Portugal tried this with our lovely emmigrants. :shock:

    It's not 5 and 6 yrs old. It's being able to speak to a level you would commonly expect a 5 or a 6 year old to speak at. This I suppose should be sufficient enough to understand that I want Madras and not a Masala. Or to be able to learn the rules of the road, read road signs etc. Who are (unofficially considered) the worse drivers on the road after women?

    I mean seriously, if I'm saying they all need to learn English when they come over here then come on man?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • W1W1 Posts: 2,636
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.

    Why does this stop them learning English?

    It does not. It is an extra requirement for citizenship which is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups.

    So if it doesn't stop them learning English, how is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups? And it's the same requirement of citizenship than any other non-EU immigrant faces?
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Who are (unofficially considered) the worse drivers on the road after women?

    OMG!

    Not you as well.

    This is appalling. It is a tsunami of prejudice, wiping away all vestiges of right-thinking.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Has any one had the pleasure of calling a Lloyds TSB call centre?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    just come out with it - you want him to learn English so that its easier for you to check your bank balance over the phone.
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.

    Why does this stop them learning English?

    It does not. It is an extra requirement for citizenship which is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups.

    So if it doesn't stop them learning English, how is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups? And it's the same requirement of citizenship than any other non-EU immigrant faces?

    Re-read my first answer. It may also cause distinct problems for the Thai/Russian bride industry.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Sewinman wrote:
    How much do five or six year old level English speakers actually contribute to our great nation?

    A heck of a lot. They give neighbourhoods a lovely feel when they play in the street or in a park. And they're the future, which is why they learn how to read and write English, and, in some cases, French or other languages, so they can communicate with people.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    Greg66 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Who are (unofficially considered) the worse drivers on the road after women?

    OMG!

    Not you as well.

    This is appalling. It is a tsunami of prejudice, wiping away all vestiges of right-thinking.

    Lawyer scum in Audis?
  • clarkey catclarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    A heck of a lot. They give neighbourhoods a lovely feel when they play in the street or in a park. And they're the future, which is why they learn how to read and write English, and, in some cases, French or other languages, so they can communicate with people.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvPYXHM94DQ

    [/url]
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    cjcp wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    How much do five or six year old level English speakers actually contribute to our great nation?

    A heck of a lot. They give neighbourhoods a lovely feel when they play in the street or in a park. And they're the future, which is why they learn how to read and write English, and, in some cases, French or other languages, so they can communicate with people.

    You could say the same for squirrels.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    But therein resides the truth. And I don't see anything wrong with it.

    If I went to a Muslim Country not only would I have to learn their ways I would have to adopt or respect their practices. You go to Thailand you have to leave your shoes outside and living there you would just get further speaking the language.

    In fact in no other Country around the World is it that you can just ignore the practices, language and social norms of your newly adopted Country.

    This isn't about being ethical political correctness or human rights. It's about Britain's oversensitive need to accommodate everyone at the expense of itself.

    It started when they tried to take the black sheep out of Baa Baa <insert appropriate colour derivative> sheep.

    It ends with the liberals being oh so sensitive to ethnicity that their actions actually do more to insult than integrate.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • SimonAHSimonAH Posts: 3,730
    I am second generation immigrant (is that correct? I was born in London, but my Father was not born in the UK) but I fully agree with the law as it stands.

    Most bits of legislation have hard rather than fuzzy boundries and will almost always be 'unfair' to a minority affected.

    In this instance it's a bit tough on the old fella, but hey - that's life.

    Personally, on moving to Wales, (even a non welsh speaking part of it) I made an effort to learn a little Welsh. I consider that only polite. If I was relocating to China I'd learn Chinese.
    FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
    CAADX 105 beastie for bumpy bits
    Litespeed L3 for Strava bits

    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Has any one had the pleasure of calling a Lloyds TSB call centre?

    Are they not staffed by northerners of some sort, Geordies or the Scotch?
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Sewinman wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    How much do five or six year old level English speakers actually contribute to our great nation?

    A heck of a lot. They give neighbourhoods a lovely feel when they play in the street or in a park. And they're the future, which is why they learn how to read and write English, and, in some cases, French or other languages, so they can communicate with people.

    You could say the same for squirrels.

    I'll assume that wasn't a serious response.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • W1W1 Posts: 2,636
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.

    Why does this stop them learning English?

    It does not. It is an extra requirement for citizenship which is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups.

    So if it doesn't stop them learning English, how is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups? And it's the same requirement of citizenship than any other non-EU immigrant faces?

    Re-read my first answer. It may also cause distinct problems for the Thai/Russian bride industry.

    Your first answer doesn't deal with the point - being in an arranged marriage doesn't stop someone learning English just like any other immigrant applicant, as you agree.
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,473
    edited July 2011
    Sewinman wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Has any one had the pleasure of calling a Lloyds TSB call centre?

    Are they not staffed by northerners of some sort, Geordies or the Scotch?

    They are staffed by whisky? :wink:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • W1W1 Posts: 2,636
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    This isn't about being ethical political correctness or human rights. It's about Britain's oversensitive need to accommodate everyone at the expense of itself.

    It ends with the liberals being oh so sensitive to ethnicity that their actions actually do more to insult than integrate.

    I agree with that.
  • Wallace1492Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    Sewinman wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Has any one had the pleasure of calling a Lloyds TSB call centre?

    Are they not staffed by northerners of some sort, Geordies or the Scotch?

    Scotch? The drink....
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    Sewinman wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Has any one had the pleasure of calling a Lloyds TSB call centre?

    Are they not staffed by northerners of some sort, Geordies or the Scotch?

    Scotch? The drink....

    I know, I know - bad word. I was just running with the prejudiced theme.
  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I don't really understand the argument that this is particularly targetted at a certain ethnic group - it's a rule that affects anyone who doesn't want to learn English from anywhere outside the EU.

    How much contribution can someone make to a society where they don't even wish to try to learn the language? It makes integration impossible. That's a sure fire way to a more culturally divided society which can be a dangerous thing.

    Because Asians are more likely to have arranged marriages with non-English speaking people from their ancestral nations.

    Why does this stop them learning English?

    It does not. It is an extra requirement for citizenship which is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups.

    So if it doesn't stop them learning English, how is likely to affect them more than other ethnic groups? And it's the same requirement of citizenship than any other non-EU immigrant faces?

    Re-read my first answer. It may also cause distinct problems for the Thai/Russian bride industry.

    Your first answer doesn't deal with the point - being in an arranged marriage doesn't stop someone learning English just like any other immigrant applicant, as you agree.

    It will affect them more because a higher % of spouses from Asian families will have to learn a new language and pass a test. Learning a new language and passing a test can cause difficulties, as this case demonstrates.
  • SimonAHSimonAH Posts: 3,730
    Tough
    FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
    CAADX 105 beastie for bumpy bits
    Litespeed L3 for Strava bits

    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    SimonAH wrote:
    Tough

    Amen to that.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,863
    cjcp wrote:
    SimonAH wrote:
    Tough

    Amen to that.


    You'll not be saying that when they ship your lot back to the valleys.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,962
    swings and roundabouts, if the UK government pushes and insists on this requirement, then other countries will also insist on it for British nationals trying to get visas in their country.

    As an example, for years UK citizens have been able to get a £10 visa to enter Turkey for 3 months but since the UK government has introduced a 180 day ruling per 365 for people entering the UK on a tourist visa, the Turkish government is in the process of rolling a similar scheme in Turkey. Whereas previously you could leave the country, re-enter and get a new visa.

    The knock on effect is that thousands of UK citizens in Turkey have now got to fork out for an expensive resident visa, assuming that they meet the requirements.
  • Wallace1492Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    Sewinman wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Has any one had the pleasure of calling a Lloyds TSB call centre?

    Are they not staffed by northerners of some sort, Geordies or the Scotch?

    Scotch? The drink....

    I know, I know - bad word. I was just running with the prejudiced theme.

    But agree with DDD, most of the staff at a LTSB call centre would fail the English test.... The quintesentially English Bank is run by a Portuguese guy and its call centres stuffed with highly intelligent, yet unintelligible offshore based workers.
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
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