OT - is this a human rights breach?

mudcow007
mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
edited July 2011 in Commuting chat
Linky here

just heard about this on Radio 2

An Indian women came here to live 5 or 6 years ago an left her husband in India. the couple now want to be together. But because of the new immigration laws which say immigrants are required to pass an English test. Her husband can't speak English and according to his wife "he is too old to learn"

The women is now taking it the courts to over throw the rules on immigration

what do you all think?
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Comments

  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    I agree with the law and think these two are unfortunate victims. Perhaps she could go and live in India with him?
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  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Little point in speculating, because pretty soon a Court is going to tell us the answer.

    But I'm a bit puzzled: the choice is learn a language or don't live with your wife. The "I'm too old to learn a new language" sounds to me a rough translation of "Meh. I never liked her that much anyway".
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  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    I agree with the law and think these two are unfortunate victims. Perhaps she could go and live in India with him?

    [Yoda]
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  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    i think, if they really want to be together surely the wife could teach him enough to pass a test?

    an surely it would be a health an safety nightmare if he came here an got a job an couldn't read warning signs etc?!
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    elf n safety gone mad ah tell ya
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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,504
    mudcow007 wrote:
    an surely it would be a health an safety nightmare if he came here an got a job an couldn't read warning signs etc?!
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  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    TailWindHome wrote:
    mudcow007 wrote:
    an surely it would be a health an safety nightmare if he came here an got a job an couldn't read warning signs etc?!

    Speak up, young man. If you have something to say, say it clearly!
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

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  • Confusedboy
    Confusedboy Posts: 287
    As British Law is determined by case rulings, I hope she is successful.

    I think that it is a disgrace that anyone from the Indian sub-continent, which was so exploited by the British in the past and which, in those days, unflinchingly supported us in our various wars and got little enough thanks for it, should be treated like this. This is, of course, just my viewpoint. We would not expect to be barred from entering India because we did not speak any of thier many languages.

    I would expect Mr. Chapti to pick up a bit of English if he does come here though, in the same way that, were I to settle in India, I would want to at least be able to make myself understood in the local lingo. I think that, as a rule, people should try to be a part of the society they have chosen to live in.

    That said, I am Welsh but can only speak English. Shame on me.
  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    edited July 2011
    Greg66 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    mudcow007 wrote:
    an surely it would be a health an safety nightmare if he came here an got a job an couldn't read warning signs etc?!

    Speak up, young man. If you have something to say, say it clearly!

    ahh i see what your trying to do here!!

    i'm not against immigration at all, i dont think there are many people in England/ UK who are 100% English anyways

    immigration is good, it provides a richer cultural environment!

    what i cant understand is, why be married to a person for 20 odd years, move to a different country then 5 years later, want your husband/ wife to follow. Surely they should have moved together? an if they really want to live together again, being taught a bit of English isnt going to be that hard?
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    mudcow007 wrote:
    i think, if they really want to be together surely the wife could teach him enough to pass a test?

    an surely it would be a health an safety nightmare if he came here an got a job an couldn't read warning signs etc?!
    Funny how all warning signs include a symbol, innit?
  • londonlivvy
    londonlivvy Posts: 644
    I think he should have to learn English.

    I'm all for diversity but in order for us to function as a nation, we have to have communication between inhabitants and different groups within the population. Since the language of this country is English (and Welsh in parts), it's important for all inhabitants to speak / understand some English. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request and will be saddened if the courts rule that it is.
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  • Wallace1492
    Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    londonlivvy wrote:
    I think he should have to learn English.

    I'm all for diversity but in order for us to function as a nation, we have to have communication between inhabitants and different groups within the population. Since the language of this country is English (and Welsh in parts), it's important for all inhabitants to speak / understand some English. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request and will be saddened if the courts rule that it is.

    Some other kinda language up here.... :wink:
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  • londonlivvy
    londonlivvy Posts: 644
    Wallace1492 wrote:
    londonlivvy wrote:
    I think he should have to learn English.

    I'm all for diversity but in order for us to function as a nation, we have to have communication between inhabitants and different groups within the population. Since the language of this country is English (and Welsh in parts), it's important for all inhabitants to speak / understand some English. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request and will be saddened if the courts rule that it is.

    Some other kinda language up here.... :wink:

    ah. is Gaelic an official language then? Huge apologies if so - I thought it was an optional one - hadn't seen lots of signposts translated like you get in Wales.
    http://minxcompendium.blogspot.com/
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Confusedboy wrote:
    As British Law is determined by case rulings, I hope she is successful.

    I think that it is a disgrace that anyone from the Indian sub-continent, which was so exploited by the British in the past and which, in those days, unflinchingly supported us in our various wars and got little enough thanks for it, should be treated like this. This is, of course, just my viewpoint. We would not expect to be barred from entering India because we did not speak any of thier many languages.

    I would expect Mr. Chapti to pick up a bit of English if he does come here though, in the same way that, were I to settle in India, I would want to at least be able to make myself understood in the local lingo. I think that, as a rule, people should try to be a part of the society they have chosen to live in.

    That said, I am Welsh but can only speak English. Shame on me.

    So it would be fine to impose the same barrier on someone from a country that we hadn't colonised in the past, would it? China? Korea? Brazil?
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

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  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    londonlivvy wrote:
    I think he should have to learn English.

    I'm all for diversity but in order for us to function as a nation, we have to have communication between inhabitants and different groups within the population. Since the language of this country is English (and Welsh in parts), it's important for all inhabitants to speak / understand some English. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request and will be saddened if the courts rule that it is.

    I'm in broad agreement with this, but in this case I don't think it's so black and white. If she's been here for many years and (presumably) speaks pretty good English then it's a bit different I think and it's not unreasonable for her to think he should be able to join her.

    For 'fresh' newcomers without that sort of support though I think it's reasonable to expect them to be able to speak at least some English.
  • MonkeyMonster
    MonkeyMonster Posts: 4,629
    Confusedboy wrote:
    I would expect Mr. Chapti to pick up a bit of English if he does come here though, in the same way that, were I to settle in India, I would want to at least be able to make myself understood in the local lingo. I think that, as a rule, people should try to be a part of the society they have chosen to live in

    But his wife has just said he can't... Right sentiment indeed - it is how I see it too. However if I was trying to LIVE in a new country - not just visit and I said I wouldn't learn the local language I would not be surprised if they said no and I'd agree with that.
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  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    What are they going to do with all the deaf people?
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    British sign language?
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  • MonkeyMonster
    MonkeyMonster Posts: 4,629
    Sewinman wrote:
    What are they going to do with all the deaf people?

    grind them up and use as fertilizer for flower shows
    Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Sewinman wrote:
    What are they going to do with all the deaf people?
    pardon?
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  • Greg T
    Greg T Posts: 3,266
    edited July 2011
    Confusedboy wrote:
    I think that it is a disgrace that anyone from the Indian sub-continent, which was so exploited by the British in the past and which, in those days, unflinchingly supported us in our various wars and got little enough thanks for it, should be treated like this.

    You do know there's a billion of them don't you . . . . .

    Can they stay round at your place?
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  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    I really don't see why you should have to speak English to live in this country.

    I know it might be useful and it shows you're making an effort and stuff... to conform to our wonderful way of life but really... why is it so important?

    And health and safety...? Really?
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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    UndercoverElephant wrote:
    British sign language?

    Would that include the Glasgow Kiss? :wink:
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  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    edited July 2011
    londonlivvy wrote:
    I think he should have to learn English.

    I'm all for diversity but in order for us to function as a nation, we have to have communication between inhabitants and different groups within the population. Since the language of this country is English (and Welsh in parts), it's important for all inhabitants to speak / understand some English. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request and will be saddened if the courts rule that it is.
    There are plenty of communities where people who speak only Hindi/Chinese/etc. function quite well, just like there are places in Wales where everyone speaks Welsh.
    While I can see why it would be good for immigrants to learn English, I also think that maintaining family ties and freedom of movement should carry much more moral weight than language issues.
    P.S. You forgot the Gaelic bits.
  • Wallace1492
    Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    londonlivvy wrote:
    Wallace1492 wrote:
    londonlivvy wrote:
    I think he should have to learn English.

    I'm all for diversity but in order for us to function as a nation, we have to have communication between inhabitants and different groups within the population. Since the language of this country is English (and Welsh in parts), it's important for all inhabitants to speak / understand some English. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request and will be saddened if the courts rule that it is.

    Some other kinda language up here.... :wink:

    ah. is Gaelic an official language then? Huge apologies if so - I thought it was an optional one - hadn't seen lots of signposts translated like you get in Wales.

    Not as many signs up here, but there is a growing number. It's official up here, not as many speakers as Welsh, and probably because of historic reasons (us being troublemaking Resless Natives) was never encouraged or tolerated as much from the powerbase of London, hence Highland clearances etc.
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  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    MonkeyMonster wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    What are they going to do with all the deaf people?

    grind them up and use as fertilizer for flower shows

    Grinding's too good for em
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  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    What are they going to do with all the deaf people?
    pardon?

    The immigrants have to speak and understand English to the level of a 5 or 6 year old...I was just wondering why this a is a prerequisite for citizenship. There are some deaf people who would not pass the test, but they won't kick them out. (Edit:I know they would pass a written/sign one, but that is not the test here).

    This particular rule seems to be very targeted in order to exclude a particular ethinic community from bringing their spouses over. I am glad it is being challenged.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    As harsh as these laws may be, this country is densely populated and there need to be immigration controls. Why only move now? Why not a few years ago? "Missing my husband" was something that could easily gave been anticipated.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • hfidgen
    hfidgen Posts: 340
    edited July 2011
    The right-wing part of my brain goes "Bloody immigrants coming over here, scrounging healthcare through an interpreter, can't even speak the language, never see them contribute anything but expense and phlegm on the street.

    Pretty much the Daily Mail.

    My left-wing brain then interrupts with "Their children will all speak english perfectly (in broad east london accents) and pay taxes, helping nullify our aging demographic and the looming pension crisis. Immigration has been good for the UK in the past, stop being so narrow minded."

    Rather like the Guardian.

    I then pretty much end up with "**** it, I'm going to the pub i've not had a problem with this personally yet."

    Problem not solved, but definitely avoided.
    FCN 4 - BMC CX02
  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    clarkey cat wrote:
    I really don't see why you should have to speak English to live in this country.

    I know it might be useful and it shows you're making an effort and stuff... to conform to our wonderful way of life but really... why is it so important?

    And health and safety...? Really?
    +1
    Being able to speak English is not the same as appreciating British values or way of life.

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