Cadel Evans ... Ferrari Link

SpaceJunk

So Cadel has "worked" with Dr Michele:

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=123

TBH - nothing new here. Everyone knew Rominger was Evans' manager, and Tony was known to consult with the great doctor.

Probably nothing more than just the one test. But you can be sure Evans will now be asked a lot of questions.

Any chance he can say he's just a friend of the family???

dave_1

Isn't it more the case if you were a client of Rominger then Ferrari's services were engaged as part of that contract? Much of Ferrari's murky past came out later too. What would Evans have known about Ferrari in 2000 being an MTBer from Australia too. Not great, but not bad news either...if Evans doesn't fail any controls at the TDF, and has those slow ascent times on in the mountains this year then it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think Evans was as good this year as he was in 2005 when he was 8th with almost all doped in front of him I guess

Name Team Time
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 86h 15' 02"
2 Ivan Basso (ITA) Team CSC + 4' 40"
3 Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile Team + 6' 21"
4 Francisco Mancebo (ESP) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne + 9' 59"
5 Alexander Vinokourov (KAZ) T-Mobile Team + 11' 01"
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner + 11' 21"
7 Michael Rasmussen (DEN) Rabobank + 11' 33"
8 Cadel Evans (AUS) Davitamon-Lotto

BikingBernie

Dave_1 wrote:

Much of Ferrari's murky past came out later too.

Not true. His long-term relationship with Armstrong did not become public knowledge until later, but his reputation as one of the world's the foremost experts on doping was already well established by 1997.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/ ... /25_1.html

Kléber

Interesting but given Ferrari's not claiming a lab test, it seems "link" is too strong a word.

It'd be good if Evans would make a bold statement here but he probably doesn't want to rock the boat, especially given the fragile nature of people on his team, from Rihs to Ballan etc.

gabriel959

Dave_1 wrote:

Isn't it more the case if you were a client of Rominger then Ferrari's services were engaged as part of that contract? Much of Ferrari's murky past came out later too. What would Evans have known about Ferrari in 2000 being an MTBer from Australia too. Not great, but not bad news either...if Evans doesn't fail any controls at the TDF, and has those slow ascent times on in the mountains this year then it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think Evans was as good this year as he was in 2005 when he was 8th with almost all doped in front of him I guess

Name Team Time
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 86h 15' 02"
2 Ivan Basso (ITA) Team CSC + 4' 40"
3 Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile Team + 6' 21"
4 Francisco Mancebo (ESP) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne + 9' 59"
5 Alexander Vinokourov (KAZ) T-Mobile Team + 11' 01"
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner + 11' 21"
7 Michael Rasmussen (DEN) Rabobank + 11' 33"
8 Cadel Evans (AUS) Davitamon-Lotto

But he wasn't 34 in 2005 or was he? :roll:

Bronzie

Kléber wrote:

It'd be good if Evans would make a bold statement here but he probably doesn't want to rock the boat, especially given the fragile nature of people on his team, from Rihs to Ballan etc.

I'd say that BMC's recent history certainly raises more eyebrows than any link to Ferrari from 10 years ago.
- the recent dodgy soigneur episode (Sven Schoutteten)
- skeletons in the closet for team management (Rihs, Lelangue with Landis. Ochowicz with Armstrng).
- recent EPO positive (Thomas Frei)
- hiring riders with a murky past (Ballan, Hincapie)

I'm prepared to give Cadel the benefit of the doubt for now, but BMC itself I'm less keen on.

wicked

It does make me laugh how everyone on here keeps banging on about Evans being clean. Look at the facts.
He rides for BMC a team run by people with a very dubious past, this is Phonak mark two with Andy Rihs. The team is already embroiled with the Mantova investigation into Ballan and Santambrogio.
A BMC soigneur caught with 195 doses of EPO which he claims is for his own personal use. BMC rider Thomas Frei caught micro dosing EPO.
Evans is a rider who whinged about lack of support at Lotto yet would not speak to slipstream and chose to go a team that would provide even less support. Why would he do that?
He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.
A rider managed by Tony Rominger who was a Ferrari client and who also managed Vino, Jaksche, Sinkewitz, Kessler and Contador. See a trend?
A rider who at the age of 34 turns himself inside out all tour from 1st week to the last putting in huge efforts in the mountains and then puts in a time trial that is much faster than the dauphine and nearly beating the second best time trialist in the world. Please!

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

iainf72

wicked wrote:

He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.

Really? Don't you think his response was fairly reasonable? What do you want him to say? Perhaps give a strong statement like Voeckler? Oh wait, lil' Tommy gave much the same answer when asked.

wicked wrote:

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

Perhaps by having "normal" blood and not having direct links with anyone dodgy?

wicked

iainf72 wrote:

wicked wrote:

He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.

Really? Don't you think his response was fairly reasonable? What do you want him to say? Perhaps give a strong statement like Voeckler? Oh wait, lil' Tommy gave much the same answer when asked.

wicked wrote:

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

Perhaps by having "normal" blood and not having direct links with anyone dodgy?

Not really no. Do you?

dg74

The dust hasn't even settled and already the critics are lining up.

Yes Doping is wrong but so far, Evans is clean.

Let's just leave it at that - if he tests positive at some point, then the investigation can begin.

iainf72

wicked wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

wicked wrote:

He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.

Really? Don't you think his response was fairly reasonable? What do you want him to say? Perhaps give a strong statement like Voeckler? Oh wait, lil' Tommy gave much the same answer when asked.

wicked wrote:

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

Perhaps by having "normal" blood and not having direct links with anyone dodgy?

Not really no. Do you?

Yes. What do you want him to say? Condemn doping? Didn't Armstrong do that from time to time?

All he was saying was "ask people who are more qualified than me"

Do you also have a beef with Voeckler who said "I don't want to talk about it I just want to let me legs do the talking"

FJS

Evans is considered within the peloton as a likely clean rider.
Boonen once said something to the effect of 'if Evans would be doping the whole peloton would be'. Which is not a total impossibility, but, well. One of the things the Landis revelations have suggested it that riders who've been in the pro peloton for a while know quite a bit about what is going on.

rick_chasey

FJS wrote:

Evans is considered within the peloton as a likely clean rider.
Boonen once said something to the effect of 'if Evans would be doping the whole peloton would be'. Which is not a total impossibility, but, well.

http://www.bicycle.net/2007/tom-boonen- ... vinokourov

Indeed.

mouth

Doesn't matter who's part of his team, it's up to the rider if he wants to poison himself and so far there's no physical evidence that he has done any wrong, except for a good performance in a bike race. Surely if that's the evidence, then we need to go after the whole bloody peloton.

RichN95.

wicked wrote:

It does make me laugh how everyone on here keeps banging on about Evans being clean. Look at the facts.
He rides for BMC a team run by people with a very dubious past, this is Phonak mark two with Andy Rihs. The team is already embroiled with the Mantova investigation into Ballan and Santambrogio.
A BMC soigneur caught with 195 doses of EPO which he claims is for his own personal use. BMC rider Thomas Frei caught micro dosing EPO.
Evans is a rider who whinged about lack of support at Lotto yet would not speak to slipstream and chose to go a team that would provide even less support. Why would he do that?
He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.
A rider managed by Tony Rominger who was a Ferrari client and who also managed Vino, Jaksche, Sinkewitz, Kessler and Contador. See a trend?
A rider who at the age of 34 turns himself inside out all tour from 1st week to the last putting in huge efforts in the mountains and then puts in a time trial that is much faster than the dauphine and nearly beating the second best time trialist in the world. Please!

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

Pretty much all of your 'evidence' doesn't actually have anything directly to do with Evans. It's almost all things that other people did. And mostly it's things they did on other teams before they had anything to do with Evans.

You have made the mistake of making your mind up and then trying to find evidence to support your opinion, rather than doing it the other way around. (I bet you're a regular reader of the CN Clinic forum).

Gazzaputt

wicked wrote:

It does make me laugh how everyone on here keeps banging on about Evans being clean. Look at the facts.
He rides for BMC a team run by people with a very dubious past, this is Phonak mark two with Andy Rihs. The team is already embroiled with the Mantova investigation into Ballan and Santambrogio.
A BMC soigneur caught with 195 doses of EPO which he claims is for his own personal use. BMC rider Thomas Frei caught micro dosing EPO.
Evans is a rider who whinged about lack of support at Lotto yet would not speak to slipstream and chose to go a team that would provide even less support. Why would he do that?
He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.
A rider managed by Tony Rominger who was a Ferrari client and who also managed Vino, Jaksche, Sinkewitz, Kessler and Contador. See a trend?
A rider who at the age of 34 turns himself inside out all tour from 1st week to the last putting in huge efforts in the mountains and then puts in a time trial that is much faster than the dauphine and nearly beating the second best time trialist in the world. Please!

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

Sad. Very sad.

dave_1

wicked wrote:

It does make me laugh how everyone on here keeps banging on about Evans being clean. Look at the facts.
He rides for BMC a team run by people with a very dubious past, this is Phonak mark two with Andy Rihs. The team is already embroiled with the Mantova investigation into Ballan and Santambrogio.
A BMC soigneur caught with 195 doses of EPO which he claims is for his own personal use. BMC rider Thomas Frei caught micro dosing EPO.
Evans is a rider who whinged about lack of support at Lotto yet would not speak to slipstream and chose to go a team that would provide even less support. Why would he do that?
He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.
A rider managed by Tony Rominger who was a Ferrari client and who also managed Vino, Jaksche, Sinkewitz, Kessler and Contador. See a trend?
A rider who at the age of 34 turns himself inside out all tour from 1st week to the last putting in huge efforts in the mountains and then puts in a time trial that is much faster than the dauphine and nearly beating the second best time trialist in the world. Please!

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

why is Evans so much slower than the old dopers on the climbs? and why no + tests from him. And why guilt by association all over again from you??

Le Commentateur

I see the fact you've had to go back almost dozen years in order to cast aspersions as a point in Evan's favour.

OK, next topic.

wicked

RichN95 wrote:

wicked wrote:

It does make me laugh how everyone on here keeps banging on about Evans being clean. Look at the facts.
He rides for BMC a team run by people with a very dubious past, this is Phonak mark two with Andy Rihs. The team is already embroiled with the Mantova investigation into Ballan and Santambrogio.
A BMC soigneur caught with 195 doses of EPO which he claims is for his own personal use. BMC rider Thomas Frei caught micro dosing EPO.
Evans is a rider who whinged about lack of support at Lotto yet would not speak to slipstream and chose to go a team that would provide even less support. Why would he do that?
He is also a rider who after winning the tour refused to condemn doping.
A rider managed by Tony Rominger who was a Ferrari client and who also managed Vino, Jaksche, Sinkewitz, Kessler and Contador. See a trend?
A rider who at the age of 34 turns himself inside out all tour from 1st week to the last putting in huge efforts in the mountains and then puts in a time trial that is much faster than the dauphine and nearly beating the second best time trialist in the world. Please!

The real question is just how did Evans ever manage to get this reputation as a clean rider?

Pretty much all of your 'evidence' doesn't actually have anything directly to do with Evans. It's almost all things that other people did. And mostly it's things they did on other teams before they had anything to do with Evans.

You have made the mistake of making your mind up and then trying to find evidence to support your opinion, rather than doing it the other way around. (I bet you're a regular reader of the CN Clinic forum).

Actually no I have not at all. I never said evans doped and I do actually hope that he is clean. What I am pointing out is people on here stating AS A FACT that the bloke is clean whereas it is merely their opinion and there is nothing to back that up apart from the fact he has never failed a test. Neither has LA and anyone who thinks he was not charged is living in cloud cuckoo land.
If you do not agree with me fine but I do resent the implication with the fools on CN clinic

dave_1

BikingBernie wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Much of Ferrari's murky past came out later too.

Not true. His long-term relationship with Armstrong did not become public knowledge until later, but his reputation as one of the world's the foremost experts on doping was already well established by 1997.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/ ... /25_1.html

The Simeoni stuff with Ferrari came out in the years after Evans worked with Rominger Evans wasn't caught up in Telekom doping allegations either, but a member of that team.

Echo et les Boniments

Dave_1 wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Much of Ferrari's murky past came out later too.

Not true. His long-term relationship with Armstrong did not become public knowledge until later, but his reputation as one of the world's the foremost experts on doping was already well established by 1997.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/ ... /25_1.html

The Simeoni stuff with Ferrari came out in the years after Evans worked with Rominger Evans wasn't caught up in Telekom doping allegations either, but a member of that team.

L'Equipe journalists were running dreadful stories about Ferrari as early as 1995...

dave_1

Echo et les Boniments wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Much of Ferrari's murky past came out later too.

Not true. His long-term relationship with Armstrong did not become public knowledge until later, but his reputation as one of the world's the foremost experts on doping was already well established by 1997.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/ ... /25_1.html

The Simeoni stuff with Ferrari came out in the years after Evans worked with Rominger Evans wasn't caught up in Telekom doping allegations either, but a member of that team.

L'Equipe journalists were running dreadful stories about Ferrari as early as 1995...

Ferrari's comments in 1994 were known to most if not all in the road cycling world. Evans was in MTBing till 2001...maybe he didn't know as much. But he worked with Rominger to get a contract, which came through Ferrari/s testing. Did Evans send any money to Ferrari?. It isn't clear at all that Evans worked with Ferrari for a length of time.

spezial

Hilarious tweet by @TheRaceRadio on the subject -

Richard Virenque - "Teaming up with Ferrari was like putting a saucepan up your backside: it was immediately obvious what you were doing"

Must be a translation from the French, as not a phrase I've heard in English before!

dennisn

FJS wrote:

Evans is considered within the peloton as a likely clean rider.

I'm going to assume that you have gotten this information by talking to your many, many, many friends in the pro peloton?????

dennisn

wicked wrote:

Look at the facts.

bahahahahaha

LangerDan

dennisn wrote:

FJS wrote:

Evans is considered within the peloton as a likely clean rider.

I'm going to assume that you have gotten this information by talking to your many, many, many friends in the pro peloton?????

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ. If we accuse someone of a misdemeanour without "knowing them", we're doing them an injustice. If we actually "accuse" someone of being innocent of any wrongdoing, again without "knowing them" , we're still somehow in the wrong.

FWIW, a friend of mine has raced as a European pro with some of Evans former teamates and they reckon he's the real deal. Not quite as comprehensive as a full Gallup poll of the peloton, but it will do me.

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

FJS wrote:

Evans is considered within the peloton as a likely clean rider.

I'm going to assume that you have gotten this information by talking to your many, many, many friends in the pro peloton?????

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ. If we accuse someone of a misdemeanour without "knowing them", we're doing them an injustice. If we actually "accuse" someone of being innocent of any wrongdoing, again without "knowing them" , we're still somehow in the wrong.

FWIW, a friend of mine has raced as a European pro with some of Evans former teamates and they reckon he's the real deal. Not quite as comprehensive as a full Gallup poll of the peloton, but it will do me.

You should know by how that anyone out there can have any opinion of anyone. I'm just making sure that what people say is what I think it is. Second and third and possibly even forth hand. You know, "I have a friend who knows a guy that once met a pro racer". That kind of thing.

Road Ace

Cadel is clean.

How can a rock hard aussie with a dog called cuddles cheat!

LangerDan

dennisn wrote:

You should know by how that anyone out there can have any opinion of anyone. I'm just making sure that what people say is what I think it is. Second and third and possibly even forth hand. You know, "I have a friend who knows a guy that once met a pro racer". That kind of thing.

I agree than anyone can have, and is entitled, to an opinion. The problem, Dennis, is that you don't actually seem to have an opinion - you take a diametrically opposed view purely for the sake of it, even it means a complete volte face from a position you might have taken only a short while beforehand.

Its all a bit Argument Clinic

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

You should know by how that anyone out there can have any opinion of anyone. I'm just making sure that what people say is what I think it is. Second and third and possibly even forth hand. You know, "I have a friend who knows a guy that once met a pro racer". That kind of thing.

I agree than anyone can have, and is entitled, to an opinion. The problem, Dennis, is that you don't actually seem to have an opinion - you take a diametrically opposed view purely for the sake of it, even it means a complete volte face from a position you might have taken only a short while beforehand.

Its all a bit Argument Clinic

Only pointing out that "I have a friend who knows a guy...." is not what you would call information of any value.

gabriel959

people in this forum seem to think he was clean because he was coached by Aldo Sassi too. Others haven't got such great opinions of the late Mr Sassi am afraid.