Red Lights

woodford2barbican

hfidgen wrote:

Hooray - this thread is turning out well

I used to jump regularly
Then I just jumped "when it was safe"
Then I just jumped "if there were no pedestrians on the crossing"
Now I sit there and obey the law and tut at the others. It doesn't appear to have affected my commute times but has certainly increased my "Zen" on the commute.

I think the general mood in london is pushing people towards stopping at lights, but for whatever reasons there are plenty of people who don't. Everyone is just going to have to get used to it.

To answer the OPs question:

Are you legally allowed to skip these on a bike? What do people feel about it?

It is illegal but some people justify it nonetheless. It often also antagonises other road users, both cyclists and drivers. It's your choice - fill your boots

I was the same.

But then my journey increased by 50%

and I went from Zen state back to jumping again.

maybe it will change again...

Bikequin

woodford2barbican wrote:

kelsen wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I jump them. Gets me to work quicker.

by 30 seconds right?

no, given that I do 16.5 miles from one side of london to the other, I have in excess of 100 sets of lights to navigate. It knocks about 10 minutes off my commute.

Why don't you just leave the house 10 minutes earlier?

I don't have the time to leave 10 minutes earlier. I get up at 6am and am out at 0740. I have two children 4 & under who I need to get ready etc and a widfe who also works full time.

10 minutes is valuable at both ends of the day.

This exactly the sort of selfish attitude that pretty much embodies red light jumping, I imagine that 10 minutes at either end of the day is pretty valuable to most of us - but sod everyone else cause your 10 minutes is far more important than anyone else's.

SmellTheGlove

If we rewound to the beginning and asked the OP, are those red light thingys
a) signals to be obeyed by road users or
b) mere decoration?

then I don't believe for a millisecond that s/he would respond with answer b.
I suspect mischief.

seataltea

richVSrich wrote:

Red = Stop
Green = Go

If you jump red, I assume you:

a) have a deathwish
b) are a to$$er
c) an ignoramus and also both of the above

Kapish?

So at 3am midweek on the way home with nothing else on the roads, long sightlines and clear visibility you are going to stop at red lights ?

bigmat

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

kelsen wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I jump them. Gets me to work quicker.

by 30 seconds right?

no, given that I do 16.5 miles from one side of london to the other, I have in excess of 100 sets of lights to navigate. It knocks about 10 minutes off my commute.

Why don't you just leave the house 10 minutes earlier?

I don't have the time to leave 10 minutes earlier. I get up at 6am and am out at 0740. I have two children 4 & under who I need to get ready etc and a widfe who also works full time.

10 minutes is valuable at both ends of the day.

ok, i dont have kids so i do find it hard to relate to the 10 mins at each end of the day...but if you got hit by a vehicle coz you were RLJ-ing..and someone had to tell your family, how would that make them feel?

"kids, your dad isnt coming home tonight because he didnt want to wait at a traffic light" ... ?

offensive **** comment of the day?

kieranb

whatas that saying about a tree falling in the woods:

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" is a philosophical riddle that raises questions regarding observation and knowledge of reality.

May be if a RL is jumped but no one else was there did it really happen?

Not sure I know of any junctions like that in my area, also just the right conditions for boy racers to have a go.

iPete

seataltea wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

Red = Stop
Green = Go

If you jump red, I assume you:

a) have a deathwish
b) are a to$$er
c) an ignoramus and also both of the above

Kapish?

So at 3am midweek on the way home with nothing else on the roads, long sightlines and clear visibility you are going to stop at red lights ?

yes.

dhope

seataltea wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

Red = Stop
Green = Go

If you jump red, I assume you:

a) have a deathwish
b) are a to$$er
c) an ignoramus and also both of the above

Kapish?

So at 3am midweek on the way home with nothing else on the roads, long sightlines and clear visibility you are going to stop at red lights ?

Depends, how much have I had to drink? :twisted:

Bikequin

BigMat wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

kelsen wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I jump them. Gets me to work quicker.

by 30 seconds right?

no, given that I do 16.5 miles from one side of london to the other, I have in excess of 100 sets of lights to navigate. It knocks about 10 minutes off my commute.

Why don't you just leave the house 10 minutes earlier?

I don't have the time to leave 10 minutes earlier. I get up at 6am and am out at 0740. I have two children 4 & under who I need to get ready etc and a widfe who also works full time.

10 minutes is valuable at both ends of the day.

ok, i dont have kids so i do find it hard to relate to the 10 mins at each end of the day...but if you got hit by a vehicle coz you were RLJ-ing..and someone had to tell your family, how would that make them feel?

"kids, your dad isnt coming home tonight because he didnt want to wait at a traffic light" ... ?

offensive **** comment of the day?

It wasn't Rich that brought the emotive subject of children into this thread.

seataltea

iPete wrote:

seataltea wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

Red = Stop
Green = Go

If you jump red, I assume you:

a) have a deathwish
b) are a to$$er
c) an ignoramus and also both of the above

Kapish?

So at 3am midweek on the way home with nothing else on the roads, long sightlines and clear visibility you are going to stop at red lights ?

yes.

Hmmm

Blandiblub

Are there any lights which need something bigger than a bike to 'trigger'? I only ask as there's some lights near The O2 (Greenwich, London), which seem to either take an age to change or are on some sort of sensor for cars. They do have something pointing at you while you wait there.

There are lights on sensors aren't there? So, is it possible that a bike doesn't trigger them?

The example I mean is on relatively newly built roads, lightly used by cars, etc, (more buses than anything) so a teeny, tiny bit more justified in looking, being sure/safe then RLJing... Just wondered about the trigger thing.

Kieran_Burns

I jumped a set of lights yesterday morning.

and then rode on the pavement






Okay, the lights were a set of temporary ones over a bridge where the works had reduced the road to one lane, on a bend.

The lights had failed and chaos was about to descend.

I decided to cycle through the lights and get the hell off the road in case some numpty came barrelling 'round and head-butted me

I felt dirty

Bassjunkieuk

seataltea wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

Red = Stop
Green = Go

If you jump red, I assume you:

a) have a deathwish
b) are a to$$er
c) an ignoramus and also both of the above

Kapish?

So at 3am midweek on the way home with nothing else on the roads, long sightlines and clear visibility you are going to stop at red lights ?

TBH, If those lights are setup correctly at that time of day I'd expect them to work on sensors so the "main" carriageway is pretty much all green all the time and any intersections are changed based on a sensor in the lights that can tell when traffic is waiting.

As for the "extra" time I think it is all relative. On my commutes around town I know with lights and traffic I can expect to cover a mile in roughly 5 minutes. I think if I didn't bother waiting at lights I may get that down to around 4 minutes. As such I'd possibly save around 8-10 minutes on each commute which is the buffer I normally allow for any unexpected deflations on the way in or cooling off period at the end.

woodford2barbican

Bikequin wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

kelsen wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I jump them. Gets me to work quicker.

by 30 seconds right?

no, given that I do 16.5 miles from one side of london to the other, I have in excess of 100 sets of lights to navigate. It knocks about 10 minutes off my commute.

Why don't you just leave the house 10 minutes earlier?

I don't have the time to leave 10 minutes earlier. I get up at 6am and am out at 0740. I have two children 4 & under who I need to get ready etc and a widfe who also works full time.

10 minutes is valuable at both ends of the day.

This exactly the sort of selfish attitude that pretty much embodies red light jumping, I imagine that 10 minutes at either end of the day is pretty valuable to most of us - but sod everyone else cause your 10 minutes is far more important than anyone else's.

I have no effect on other people in the way that I jump red lights. Only on the blood pressure of the prissy uptight pricks who quietly fume away waiting at a deserted ped crossing on red as I make progress homewards. That, is not my problem.

woodford2barbican

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

kelsen wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

richVSrich wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I jump them. Gets me to work quicker.

by 30 seconds right?

no, given that I do 16.5 miles from one side of london to the other, I have in excess of 100 sets of lights to navigate. It knocks about 10 minutes off my commute.

Why don't you just leave the house 10 minutes earlier?

I don't have the time to leave 10 minutes earlier. I get up at 6am and am out at 0740. I have two children 4 & under who I need to get ready etc and a widfe who also works full time.

10 minutes is valuable at both ends of the day.

ok, i dont have kids so i do find it hard to relate to the 10 mins at each end of the day...but if you got hit by a vehicle coz you were RLJ-ing..and someone had to tell your family, how would that make them feel?

"kids, your dad isnt coming home tonight because he didnt want to wait at a traffic light" ... ?

I don't jump lights where I run any risk of getting hit. It is more likely to happen on the rest of the journey.

Not an offensive comment, it is fair, it is a consideration in choosing those lights which i jump. In the same way that I choose to turnright when I do, overtake a bus etc.....you perform a risk assesment, make you decision and get on with it.

Could be killed falling down the stair ffs.

MonkeyMonster

woodford2barbican wrote:

I have no effect on other people in the way that I jump red lights. Only on the blood pressure of the prissy uptight pricks who quietly fume away waiting at a deserted ped crossing on red as I make progress homewards. That, is not my problem.

and then it becomes 'ours' because they assume all cyclists jump red lights so care less about all other cyclists. if you can't see your personal actions are negatively affecting the greater cycling fraternity then...

spen666

King Jeffers wrote:

I never normally jump red lights... except... ....

alternatively, you could simply say you do jump red lights

dhope

MonkeyMonster wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I have no effect on other people in the way that I jump red lights. Only on the blood pressure of the prissy uptight pricks who quietly fume away waiting at a deserted ped crossing on red as I make progress homewards. That, is not my problem.

and then it becomes 'ours' because they assume all cyclists jump red lights so care less about all other cyclists. if you can't see your personal actions are negatively affecting the greater cycling fraternity then...

Dunno, I'm with notsoblue on this, I don't assume all car drivers are bad, just the bad ones.
Those we can't credit with the same intelligence are probably not ones that'd be shifting their opinions even if nobody RLJ'd anyway.

stuj15

I had a nodder doing the RLJ overtake on me a couple of weeks ago down the Romford Road. I stopped at one set of ped lights with a van next to me waiting for a family with young children (one no more than four, the other in a pram) to cross.
I see the guy coming up behind me and it was obvious he was going to go straight through - he couldn't have seen the family from behind the van at this point. So, I stuck out my arm and shouted at him to stop, he proceeded to dodge me, go through the light and miss the four year old (who was walking slightly in front of the pram) by inches.

The Dad actually walked over to me and thanked me for trying to stop him and I even found myself apologising for his actions. A minute later I caught up with him and we had 'a chat' which involved me saying that if I see him doing that on this route again it'll be more that my arm I'll stick out.

If it's clear and you 'think' it's ok, on your head I say - I hope you have a pull from a copper at some point. If you blatantly go through reds when there are cars/peds crossing then you deserve to be knocked over in my book. But, think of the other people you'll be affecting by doing this, especially those in your family.

Me? I prefer to use a red light as a interval training. Quick chance to get your breath back, take a swig and off you go again.

richVSrich

stuj15 wrote:

....
Me? I prefer to use a red light as a interval training. Quick chance to get your breath back, take a swig and off you go again.

+1 ... i forgot to add this

...and it's still breaking the law if you RLJ!

Blandiblub

+2. Still a noob and not very 'bike fit' (generally fit though as I used to run a lot) and like the little breaks en route to cool down a bit, particularly after a bit of a climb.

king_jeffers

spen666 wrote:

alternatively, you could simply say you do jump red lights

I did, read my post again. I'm not saying its right I'm saying I don't want my face to be smashed into the side of the road or end up as exec saloon food.

Ginjafro

Coriordan said:

Anyway, I was wondering what the law/deal is with red lights.
Sometimes its fairly obvious that you can skip it without endangering anyone (If a red light is to allow traffic to join from the left or right and nothing is coming etc).
Other times, I am quite happily sitting at the reds with everyone else, and someone just zooms through.

Blimey, by all means RLJ if you want to either kill yourself, someone else or just generally give cyclists a bad name.

However, I think you are also demonstrating the perception to cycle road craft of someone who is probably a well meaning but naive novice to a new form of transport. My advice is simple: get some road cycling safety lessons! There is no shame in that and lots of cyclists should also do the same. I grew up learning road safety via the "green X code", the Tufty Club, Cycle Proficiency, Motorcycle licence and Silver Star motorcycle safety, Driving licence and most recently how to safely operate and drive a minibus to carry passengers. I'm still alive and I believe I owe that to my better understanding of the road and its many users. I also try to anticipate hazards (as far as possible) to avoid danger to preserve my life, something which many road-users clearly fail to do.

One final thing, If you are still not convinced please tell us all what you will do with the extra few seconds you save by RLJing at the end of your journey, if you survive?

SimonAH

Hands up who amongst us that didn't go through the progression of;

Spawn
"Traffic lights are advisory"
Tadpole
"Traffic lights are advisory if you're not ticking anyone off"
Frog
"Traffic lights are advisory if the road is deserted and no-one sees you"
Prince
"It's 3am, there is nobody out at all, but you still find yourself waiting for the light to change"

I suggest that the OP is simply evolving as we all did and is currently at tadpole. It's normal.

bails87

SimonAH wrote:

Hands up who amongst us that didn't go through the progression of;

Spawn
"Traffic lights are advisory"
Tadpole
"Traffic lights are advisory if you're not ticking anyone off"
Frog
"Traffic lights are advisory if the road is deserted and no-one sees you"
Prince
"It's 3am, there is nobody out at all, but you still find yourself waiting for the light to change"

I suggest that the OP is simply evolving as we all did and is currently at tadpole. It's normal.

*Puts hand up*

I went straight to the stage formerly known as Prince. Except on broken temporary traffic lights and the ones that don't register a bike so don't change.

Bassjunkieuk

dhope wrote:

MonkeyMonster wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I have no effect on other people in the way that I jump red lights. Only on the blood pressure of the prissy uptight pricks who quietly fume away waiting at a deserted ped crossing on red as I make progress homewards. That, is not my problem.

and then it becomes 'ours' because they assume all cyclists jump red lights so care less about all other cyclists. if you can't see your personal actions are negatively affecting the greater cycling fraternity then...

Dunno, I'm with notsoblue on this, I don't assume all car drivers are bad, just the bad ones.
Those we can't credit with the same intelligence are probably not ones that'd be shifting their opinions even if nobody RLJ'd anyway.

But it's not just car drivers (although in all honesty the vast majority of the adult population drive....) some people's perception of cyclist=rljer is based on walking around town and I'm sick of being asked "so do you stop for RL's?" whenever I mention I'm a cyclist! I'm damn sure if as soon as someone mentioned they drive they'd get rather annoyed if I asked about them speeding and using their mobile phone, just because "that's what all car drivers do" based on the fact that I've seen a small proportion (in the case of mobile phone users, drivers rarely get a chance to speed on my commute routes :-)) do it.

W1

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

dhope wrote:

MonkeyMonster wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

I have no effect on other people in the way that I jump red lights. Only on the blood pressure of the prissy uptight pricks who quietly fume away waiting at a deserted ped crossing on red as I make progress homewards. That, is not my problem.

and then it becomes 'ours' because they assume all cyclists jump red lights so care less about all other cyclists. if you can't see your personal actions are negatively affecting the greater cycling fraternity then...

Dunno, I'm with notsoblue on this, I don't assume all car drivers are bad, just the bad ones.
Those we can't credit with the same intelligence are probably not ones that'd be shifting their opinions even if nobody RLJ'd anyway.

But it's not just car drivers (although in all honesty the vast majority of the adult population drive....) some people's perception of cyclist=rljer is based on walking around town and I'm sick of being asked "so do you stop for RL's?" whenever I mention I'm a cyclist! I'm damn sure if as soon as someone mentioned they drive they'd get rather annoyed if I asked about them speeding and using their mobile phone, just because "that's what all car drivers do" based on the fact that I've seen a small proportion (in the case of mobile phone users, drivers rarely get a chance to speed on my commute routes :-)) do it.

There have been two accidents reported on here caused solely because the person behind assumed the cyclist would run the red light, and hit them when they didn't. That presumption is down to a significant number of cyclists running red lights. If cyclists were not "known" for running red lights, such a presumption would not be made. So all this balls about it not affecting anyone is just that - balls.

I have been hit twice by RLJers.

And I love how RLJers only do so when "guaranteed" to be safe - on the basis that they are perfect riders and never made mistakes. I'm sure I could make the same arguments for running red lights in my car when I "know" it will be safe - do the RLJers support that too?

notsoblue

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

But it's not just car drivers (although in all honesty the vast majority of the adult population drive....) some people's perception of cyclist=rljer is based on walking around town and I'm sick of being asked "so do you stop for RL's?" whenever I mention I'm a cyclist! I'm damn sure if as soon as someone mentioned they drive they'd get rather annoyed if I asked about them speeding and using their mobile phone, just because "that's what all car drivers do" based on the fact that I've seen a small proportion (in the case of mobile phone users, drivers rarely get a chance to speed on my commute routes :-)) do it.

Theres nothing you can do about it other than setting an example yourself. Based on stuff I've heard my friends say, and how I've been treated when out riding, I reckon most of the population think that riding two abreast is illegal. They think this purely because they see cycling as a) a dangerous activity, and b) an activity that causes a nuisance on public roads. It is simply assumed that its illegal because of the general perception of cycling as an activity in this country. No amount of good behaviour will change this perception, and this perception gives the type of unpleasant driver who will shout abuse or use their car as a weapon an excuse to do so. We're a convenient group of people to vent anger and frustration at.

The above isn't meant as a call to arms to go ahead and jump red lights all you want, but its the rational behind why I think the argument that other people jumping red lights is the reason why cyclists get treated badly is bull$hit.

notsoblue

Must....not....reply...to W1....

Aaarrgggghhh!!!11

W1 wrote:

There have been two accidents reported on here caused solely because the person behind assumed the cyclist would run the red light, and hit them when they didn't. That presumption is down to a significant number of cyclists running red lights. If cyclists were not "known" for running red lights, such a presumption would not be made. So all this balls about it not affecting anyone is just that - balls.

I have been hit twice by RLJers.

This is just people being sh!t cyclists. I know exactly what you're talking about as it almost happens to me on a regular basis. Its usually a chubby middle aged nodders on Upper Richmond Road, or someone on a boris bike in the city. I avoid it by checking behind me before I brake at lights, and making eye contact with the other rider. In fact, I use the very same technique to avoid being rear-ended by drivers when I'm approaching a light thats about to turn red.

clarkey cat

give it one of these W1