Posting video of everyone that cuts you up on youtube...

edb999

I mean really? What are they hoping to achieve, that drivers see their video stream and decide that they should book some more driving lessons?
Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think wearing a camera is a bad idea – I have recently got one myself in case of incident and I can understand people want to post the odd video of something spectacularly stupid or amusing , but I certainly wont be coming home from each ride and posting several videos titled ‘cut up by Fiesta registration xxx xxx’
Am I missing something here or does this just come across as very petty and whinging?

Sewinman

Monkeypump

Have a chat with a forumite called MyBreakfastConsisted... he'll let you know what it's all about.

mybreakfastconsisted

Bad instances are sent to Roadsafe. I dunno if they're logged on the Police Criminal Database but at least there's a history of numpty driving should anything worse happen. The roads are largely unpoliced, the impetus for recording commutes is almost entirely from cyclists- says it all.

gtvlusso

EdB999 wrote:

I mean really? What are they hoping to achieve, that drivers see their video stream and decide that they should book some more driving lessons?
Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think wearing a camera is a bad idea – I have recently got one myself in case of incident and I can understand people want to post the odd video of something spectacularly stupid or amusing , but I certainly wont be coming home from each ride and posting several videos titled ‘cut up by Fiesta registration xxx xxx’
Am I missing something here or does this just come across as very petty and whinging?

+1

Happy for people to filem - though I believe to be a bit unnecessary. Putting reg numbers on youtube is a whole other issue though.

Most of the "incidents" are nothing of note - just a normal day. And the filming cyclist does not know the circumstances of the driver at the time - screaming kids, lost, new driver etc etc etc. Seems very one-sided and unfair to post reg numbers online, particularly from one viewpoint - that may be intrinsically flawed. Some of the worst traffic offenders I see daily, are other cyclists!

A good cyclist would anticipate danger from quite a distance before things get out of hand. I guess you also don't know if the video has been edited - i.e. a previous bit of a ding dong with said driver where the cyclist has done something stupid and the driver is seeking retribution. Not that this condones any form of utilising a vehicle to try and injure anyone deliberately.

I just think the whole idea is wholly unfair and just makes the divide between cyclists and other road users wider. Makes cyclists out to be superior, know-it-alls, just because we can point out personal information (reg no) on a video, web-o-lize it to the masses and then comment on "why this is a bad thing" - without any reference point or other information, kinda devisive. The car driver has no chance to explain or ability to have the posting removed if they think it is unfair. Just labels potentially innocent people as guilty without a fair hearing and it is for all to see with some brazen title like "Driver cuts me up" - "driver too close".

But there are a few people on here and cyclechat that like to put reg numbers on youtube, it's up to them - their time and life. Personally, I have better things to do that bitch about my commute to work.

And no, it does not "educate" drivers, it just riles them.

bdave262000

I wonder if some of these posters go out and deliberately look for altercations with motorists. Some of these guys are posting 3+ videos a week. I commute 25 miles a day from Surrey into central London and maybe have about 1 minor incident of worth every three – four weeks.

mybreakfastconsisted

Magnatom's had some tremendously positive responses to his videos, including a bus company changing its training for drivers.

There have been prosecutions for road rage assaults, at least three that I know of. Who would oppose catching violent thugs?

Plus the Roadsafe system logs incidents and writes to the driver. The more drivers who become aware that some cyclists film their commute the better.

This is from London Skaters but the principle's the same:

Why film all the time?


I do this for three main reasons:

Self-Improvement
The common view is that anyone can ride a bicycle and that it doesn't take much skill. Unfortunately the truth is rather different, and there are quite a few different skillsets involved in good cycling. One is that of integrating properly with other traffic on the roads, which includes things such as road positioning, signalling, negotiating with motor vehicles, etc. There's a lot of skill to proper cyclecraft - just check out the book by John Franklin.

A video camera of your riding is a really useful way of looking at what you did, sometimes on a frame-by-frame basis, and then analysing what went well, and what you might have done better. I've improved my own riding through filming myself and discussing what I did on message boards on the internet, as well as working with videos of other people riding. I'd like to think that quite a few people without cameras have also learnt from these videos.

Stopping Incidents

Even the most innocuous and peaceable cyclist will occasionally get undeserved verbal abuse or even road rage from an ignorant and badly-behaved motorist. Telling them they are on camera almost always stops any further incident from happening. This is the best solution by far, though it might be boring from a Police, Camera, Action point of view.

I also often see people on mobile phones whilst commuting to or from work, and will always make a point of telling them to stop using the phone. For the few that refuse to do so, simply visibly pointing the video camera at them has never yet failed to make them drop the phone instantly.

The power of one.
This is all about making a difference. If enough people had an onboard video camera and complained to companies about bad driving from their employees, this would have a tremendous effect on driving safety.

If I by chance experience some bad driving and the vehicle is identifiable, I'll download the video onto my computer and write a letter to the company concerned. There's no point in bothering with minor incidents or simple mistakes, which we all make once in a while on the roads, it's only the more serious cases of bad and dangerous driving that are worth dealing with. It'll be pretty embarrassing to be asked in to see the transport manager of your company to explain some video footage of your driving. I'm not really doing this for my own benefit, but more for the next road user that the driver comes across.

Of course the downside is that some people make comments along the lines of "You're not a policeman" or "Mind your own business", to which my response is that it IS my business. Bad driving such as using the mobile phone is incredibly dangerous to other people, including me. Motor vehicle drivers kill roughly 3,000 people a year in the UK, and when using a mobile phone is worse than drink driving in terms of accident rates, that shouldn't be acceptable. I seem to recall reading on the BBC that the most likely thing to stop mobile phone user drivers is negative attention from other members of the public, and that's certainly been my experience.


http://www.londonskaters.com/cycling/ar ... ameras.htm

Clever Pun

If someone posts every time someone does something tirvial the message when something bad actually happens can get lost... quality over quantity

people get cut up all the damn time regardless of what mode of transport they're in, issue a warning(beep/cuss) and that's that

Bikequin

bdave262000 wrote:

I wonder if some of these posters go out and deliberately look for altercations with motorists. Some of these guys are posting 3+ videos a week. I commute 25 miles a day from Surrey into central London and maybe have about 1 minor incident of worth every three – four weeks.

+1 - Couldn't agree more.

However if I was to post a video clip of everytime I saw a bike doing something stupid i'd be posting dozens everyday.

mybreakfastconsisted

Bikequin wrote:

bdave262000 wrote:

I wonder if some of these posters go out and deliberately look for altercations with motorists. Some of these guys are posting 3+ videos a week. I commute 25 miles a day from Surrey into central London and maybe have about 1 minor incident of worth every three – four weeks.

+1 - Couldn't agree more.

However if I was to post a video clip of everytime I saw a bike doing something stupid i'd be posting dozens everyday.

Do you have actual examples of cyclists deliberately looking for altercations.

The average half a person killed a year by a cyclist is rather outnumbered by the 3000+ killed by drivers. After all, there is no equal rise in the numbers of drivers filming cyclists, because there's not much point. Cyclists are not the source of danger on the roads.

gtvlusso

bdave262000 wrote:

I wonder if some of these posters go out and deliberately look for altercations with motorists. Some of these guys are posting 3+ videos a week. I commute 25 miles a day from Surrey into central London and maybe have about 1 minor incident of worth every three – four weeks.

+1 - 20 to 30 miles a day myself and nothing of note happens......Busy city roads, cycle lanes and rural roads.

I guess some people live in fear or are basically bad road users themselves, but like to blame everyone else ;-)

Up to other people if they wanna film - their issue. But posting reg numbers is a big no no - the driver has no come back, no defence and the cyclist is not always right.

I seem to remember a debate on here about a girl overtaking without a shoulder check - she was on another cyclists cam - filming cyclist expected everyone on here to be on the girls side, but we were not - she deliberately moved into fast moving traffic without looking and caused a car to brake very hard. Then said filming cyclist goes nuts at car driver and makes us all look bad.....(bit of an overview!)

*Waits for one of the cam guys to see red.......

gtvlusso

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Bikequin wrote:

bdave262000 wrote:

I wonder if some of these posters go out and deliberately look for altercations with motorists. Some of these guys are posting 3+ videos a week. I commute 25 miles a day from Surrey into central London and maybe have about 1 minor incident of worth every three – four weeks.

+1 - Couldn't agree more.

However if I was to post a video clip of everytime I saw a bike doing something stupid i'd be posting dozens everyday.

Do you have actual examples of cyclists deliberately looking for altercations.

The average half a person killed a year by a cyclist is rather outnumbered by the 3000+ killed by drivers. After all, there is no equal rise in the numbers of drivers filming cyclists, because there's not much point. Cyclists are not the source of danger on the roads.

Video can be edited......And some cyclists are lycra louts - so engaged in their own world they forget that they are sharing the road with uother users and quite simply believe that they own the place.

Yes, I believe that cars/drivers outnumber bikes/cyclists significantly......so, yes, more people will be killed by cars/drivers and not by cyclists - the velocity, weight and mass of said carraiges are significantly differing too - would you rather be hit by a charging elephant or a charging mouse? Which one do you think will hurt more?

Basic Maths, keep up old boy.

gbsahne001

funniest one I saw, was of a cyclist paying more attention to the car drivers poor driving or in this case being on a mobile, that he ended up cycling into the back of a car and coming off.

A lot of the instances though are fairly mundane though and not worthy of posting IMHO

king_jeffers

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Bikequin wrote:

bdave262000 wrote:

I wonder if some of these posters go out and deliberately look for altercations with motorists. Some of these guys are posting 3+ videos a week. I commute 25 miles a day from Surrey into central London and maybe have about 1 minor incident of worth every three – four weeks.

+1 - Couldn't agree more.

However if I was to post a video clip of everytime I saw a bike doing something stupid i'd be posting dozens everyday.

Do you have actual examples of cyclists deliberately looking for altercations.

The average half a person killed a year by a cyclist is rather outnumbered by the 3000+ killed by drivers. After all, there is no equal rise in the numbers of drivers filming cyclists, because there's not much point. Cyclists are not the source of danger on the roads.

http://uk.gizmodo.com/5810246/cyclist-a ... lane-video

Boom!

mybreakfastconsisted

Yes, they are both cocks in that video. best way to deal with Johnny Law is be polite and get rid as soon as possible. That chap got a lot of stick when he posted that clip and took it down from a number of forums. Fora?

He's not filming a driver though. I seriously doubt any cyclist has placed themself in danger in order to get a good clip.

Helmet cams are here to stay, their use is growing, this can only be a good thing, complaining some clips are boring is like saying you don't like a certain telly programme, don't watch it then!

gtvlusso

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Yes, they are both cocks in that video. best way to deal with Johnny Law is be polite and get rid as soon as possible. That chap got a lot of stick when he posted that clip and took it down from a number of forums. Fora?

He's not filming a driver though. I seriously doubt any cyclist has placed themself in danger in order to get a good clip.

Helmet cams are here to stay, their use is growing, this can only be a good thing, complaining some clips are boring is like saying you don't like a certain telly programme, don't watch it then!

So, in the interests of democracy:

In this example - said filmer is a "c0ck" and did something deliberate.

"Helmet cams are here to stay, their use is growing, this can only be a good thing"

No it isn't - see above.

"complaining some clips are boring is like saying you don't like a certain telly programme, don't watch it then"

How can people avoid it if their personal detail (reg no) is planted on bl00dy youtube? And they have no way of getting that removed or a fair explanation by someone like the above?!

Are you serious?

nation

I keep thinking about picking up a helmet cam, purely because it would be nice to have the backup in the event of an accident. I deal with liability disputes relating to road traffic accidents everyday, and I'm only too aware how often "one word against another" disputes go nowhere.

I don't get the whole thing about sticking every minor altercation on youtube, context-free, though. Especially the sheer volume of them some people upload. Incidents where I'm actually put in danger are not that frequent, and even then it tends to be the odd pass that doesn't leave as much room as I'd like. I'm also very conscious of the fact that a lot of people that upload videos and complain about driver aggression are themselves riding like twats.

If I was involved in a particularly bad incident, then I'd maybe try to seek some redress, but not publicly. I'd only then stick the video on youtube if I couldn't get anywhere.

mybreakfastconsisted

I think it's good that clip was posted. My brother says the copper was wrong, I think the cyclist is wrong. It generates debate. Drivers are in a public place, it is perfectly acceptable to film their idiotic behaviour. They can avoid having the clips posted on Facetube by not driving like cocks.

I guess the question to ask is, since law-breaking is rife on the roads, is it a good or bad thing that such behaviour can be recorded and the driver alerted to the potential consequences of their behaviour?

I think yes is the sensible answer. Don't want to have your driving posted on Youtube? Behave yourself and you've nothing to worry about. Drivers are free to post their own comments beneath the clip, although I've seen a few cases where they compound their sin by posting threats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtNLbtUxTy0

Clever Pun

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Helmet cams are here to stay, their use is growing, this can only be a good thing, complaining some clips are boring is like saying you don't like a certain telly programme, don't watch it then!

but that's my point someone's youtube channel will be routinely ignored and the 1 thing of interest that happens is missed

mybreakfastconsisted

Clever Pun wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Helmet cams are here to stay, their use is growing, this can only be a good thing, complaining some clips are boring is like saying you don't like a certain telly programme, don't watch it then!

but that's my point someone's youtube channel will be routinely ignored and the 1 thing of interest that happens is missed

If Roadsafe are involved the driver gets a link to the clip, that's how the driver in the above clip found the Youtube page and decided, in his infinite wisdom, to post a comment promising to hurt a child if he saw the cyclist again.

That's the sort of thuggery cameras will deter.

nation

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Don't want to have your driving posted on Youtube? Behave yourself and you've nothing to worry about.

Except in cases where the person toting the cam is in the wrong, but thinks they're right.

Somewhere in the helmet cam thread there's a link to the youtube channel of someone (not on the forums) who not only rides ridiculously agressively, but has confrontations with drivers in which he condescendingly lectures them on what he incorrectly believes the law to be.

mybreakfastconsisted

nation wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Don't want to have your driving posted on Youtube? Behave yourself and you've nothing to worry about.

Except in cases where the person toting the cam is in the wrong, but thinks they're right.

Somewhere in the helmet cam thread there's a link to the youtube channel of someone (not on the forums) who not only rides ridiculously agressively, but has confrontations with drivers in which he condescendingly lectures them on what he incorrectly believes the law to be.

Then the helmet cam allows you to decide who's at fault. Without the footage you'd have no idea. helmet cams don't cause bad behaviour on the road, they merely record it. I think I know who you mean, that rather shouty gentleman.

Sewinman

My main thought on this subject is that they tend to be used by people I would probably not enjoy having a pint with.

spen666

I find myself in a (rare) situation of being in agreement with MBC


To those of you raising rubbish about posting registration numbers etc...
1. Registration numbers are on vehicles so the vehicle CAN be identified!
2. When you are in a public place, you have to accept you may be filmed etc ( different if someone is deliberately stalking you obviously)
3. Are you really suggesting people should be protected from having their alleged criminal behaviour revealed?

gtvlusso

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

I think it's good that clip was posted. My brother says the copper was wrong, I think the cyclist is wrong. It generates debate. Drivers are in a public place, it is perfectly acceptable to film their idiotic behaviour. They can avoid having the clips posted on Facetube by not driving like cocks.

I guess the question to ask is, since law-breaking is rife on the roads, is it a good or bad thing that such behaviour can be recorded and the driver alerted to the potential consequences of their behaviour?

I think yes is the sensible answer. Don't want to have your driving posted on Youtube? Behave yourself and you've nothing to worry about. Drivers are free to post their own comments beneath the clip, although I've seen a few cases where they compound their sin by posting threats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtNLbtUxTy0

Is your brother a Law Lord?

Not many drivers drive like c0cks - only a few. Same as with cyclists, there are a few that cycle like c0cks. Same as with tennis players, there are some tennis players that play like c0cks.

Example:

So, family car with said family in it - small children and so on. Kids start kicking off and fighting or perhaps a child gets injured in the back seat whilst playing with a toy (as they often do) and parent has to pull over quick sharp, is distracted by kids in back seat, but is doing the right thing by pulling over to sort it out - unfortunately, this causes a bit of a close call for a cyclist, but not an incident of any significance. Said cyclist films the incident, shouts at said driver (with kids in car) and then posts the reg on youtube with a title like

"no control over kids or car"

And thats fair is it?

Why do you think that driver post threat? Do you believe that everyon agrees with you and is happy about this kind of behaviour? Do you really think people are happy about having no come back on this? Are you a deity?

As Sewinman said "I don't think I'd want to chat to you over a pint".....

cee

my thoughts on the helmet cam thing are mixed...

I think they can be very useful for recording accidents etc....

my problem with them though is that it is far from clear what has gone on from just the video themselves.

even in mikeys video posted here earlier.....

to be honest, there were two other vehicles which, from the video, looked to pass just as closely as the last on.....

It is difficult from watching the video to tell why he chose to highlight the little van rather than...for instance...the transit type van from earlier in the clip.....they look about as close...

now i am sure that he had his reasons for not highlighting the transit type van, but instead opting to highlight the little van (maybe it was much closer than it looked)...but from the video....they are pretty difficult to tell apart.

What I am basically trying to say...is that I have doubts about the quality of evidence that they give, particularly in the less clear cut situations, where good video evidence would be most useful.

gtvlusso

spen666 wrote:

I find myself in a (rare) situation of being in agreement with MBC


To those of you raising rubbish about posting registration numbers etc...
1. Registration numbers are on vehicles so the vehicle CAN be identified!
2. When you are in a public place, you have to accept you may be filmed etc ( different if someone is deliberately stalking you obviously)
3. Are you really suggesting people should be protected from having their alleged criminal behaviour revealed?

In a word:

WTF?

No one has commented on the legal issues here.......Can you quote something that I may have missed?

The debate is about whether or not it is fair to post a video about a nothing incident that is incredibly biased and that the owner of the vehicle has no comeback?

Did you read any of the comments?

shm_uk

Ah, bless all those who genuinely think YouTube has a useful and serious purpose...

nation

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

nation wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Don't want to have your driving posted on Youtube? Behave yourself and you've nothing to worry about.

Except in cases where the person toting the cam is in the wrong, but thinks they're right.

Somewhere in the helmet cam thread there's a link to the youtube channel of someone (not on the forums) who not only rides ridiculously agressively, but has confrontations with drivers in which he condescendingly lectures them on what he incorrectly believes the law to be.

Then the helmet cam allows you to decide who's at fault. Without the footage you'd have no idea. helmet cams don't cause bad behaviour on the road, they merely record it. I think I know who you mean, that rather shouty gentleman.

Fair point, I suppose.

A lot of it is that sticking the videos on youtube is pretty pointless in the vast majority of cases. It's not going to have any consequences for the driver (unless it's, say, a liveried vehicle belonging to a large company), and though it's "public", it's not like anyone is going to stumble across it. It's pretty limp, as retribution goes.

gtvlusso

nation wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

nation wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Don't want to have your driving posted on Youtube? Behave yourself and you've nothing to worry about.

Except in cases where the person toting the cam is in the wrong, but thinks they're right.

Somewhere in the helmet cam thread there's a link to the youtube channel of someone (not on the forums) who not only rides ridiculously agressively, but has confrontations with drivers in which he condescendingly lectures them on what he incorrectly believes the law to be.

Then the helmet cam allows you to decide who's at fault. Without the footage you'd have no idea. helmet cams don't cause bad behaviour on the road, they merely record it. I think I know who you mean, that rather shouty gentleman.

Fair point, I suppose.

A lot of it is that sticking the videos on youtube is pretty pointless in the vast majority of cases. It's not going to have any consequences for the driver (unless it's, say, a liveried vehicle belonging to a large company), and though it's "public", it's not like anyone is going to stumble across it. It's pretty limp, as retribution goes.

"(unless it's, say, a liveried vehicle belonging to a large company)"

In which case - complain by letter to the company and provide a DVD of the film.

Simples.

Anonymous

spen666 wrote:

I find myself in a (rare) situation of being in agreement with MBC


To those of you raising rubbish about posting registration numbers etc...
1. Registration numbers are on vehicles so the vehicle CAN be identified!
2. When you are in a public place, you have to accept you may be filmed etc ( different if someone is deliberately stalking you obviously)
3. Are you really suggesting people should be protected from having their alleged criminal behaviour revealed?

OK, that's fine.

But should you also accept that you could be posted to YouTube for all to see? I don't think that's fair, it's very on-sided for a start.

I agree helmet cams are a good idea. But if you catch someone driving in a way you feel is below standard give the footage to the police, that's what they're there for.

I really don't think you have the right* to post footage of other people on YouTube without their permission. Weather or not you think they've done something wrong.

(I'm not talking about if you have a legal right, I mean as in I don't believe it's fair).