Are Orange Fives over hyped?

getonyourbike

supersonic wrote:

I think if anyone is consdiring a 5 frame at £1400, take a look at this:

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Saracen-Ariel-1 ... _35488.htm

That just isn't the frame. It's the WHOLE BIKE!

wow, that's not far off giving Canyon a run for their money. I think the AM 5.0 just edges it though.

dubmodder

As long as you ignore him (supersonic)

supersonic

getonyourbike wrote:

supersonic wrote:

I think if anyone is consdiring a 5 frame at £1400, take a look at this:

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Saracen-Ariel-1 ... _35488.htm

That just isn't the frame. It's the WHOLE BIKE!

wow, that's not far off giving Canyon a run for their money. I think the AM 5.0 just edges it though.

Yeah, good to see higher end Fox shocks too, not jsut the base R models. It's even British ;-)

supersonic

dubmodder wrote:

As long as you ignore him (supersonic)

Best advice I have heard today ;-)

dubmodder

Only joking mate

ftwizard

Interesting that a fair few are saying that they are heavy. What is considered an average weight for the class?

hucking_fell

I think less than 30 lb is a low enough weight for a 5" to 6" travel trail bike.

Anonymous

Hucking Fell wrote:

I think less than 30 lb is a low enough weight for a 5" to 6" travel trail bike.

again, subjective. A 5 to 6 inch travel machine is generally capable of a hell of a lot of abuse, so it had better have the backbone to take it. Otherwise it's writing checks it can't cash.

joshtp

supersonic wrote:

I think if anyone is consdiring a 5 frame at £1400, take a look at this:

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Saracen-Ariel-1 ... _35488.htm

That just isn't the frame. It's the WHOLE BIKE!

I'd have this.


And YeeHa is right I suppose... I'm not a crazy hater, it is a good bike, and i know a lot of people really love them, and have good reasons for it. But it IS over-hyped, and personaly I'd wouldn't have one... only because there are better options mind. (imho)

I'm also put of by the fanbois... there are other though 140 trail bikes around you know...

as for outdated... well, yes and no... it has adapted and changed, modern geo, tapered h/t etc... but the sus only works because of clever shocks, not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem a little lazy, and the construction is a little basic... it could be tougher for the weight/lighter for the strength. It could be a lot stiffer too.

still, many people love it, and i won't take that away from them... each to his own like...


expensive too....

Anonymous

That pivot location is capable of working really well without any clever shocks, actually, but if they stick a non clever shock on it, they'd never sell them when others are putting platform damping shocks on. It's nothing to do with design, and everything to do with people thinking that "more adjustable shock = better bike".
And people DO fall for it, in droves.

getonyourbike

yeeha- this is the most sensible I've ever seen you before. Where have you hidden the real yeehaamcgee?

joshtp

oh, furry muff. I was under the impression that without platform damping it wallowed like a pig in muck in the granny ring. Never ridden one without.

Anonymous

getonyourbike wrote:

yeeha- this is the most sensible I've ever seen you before. Where have you hidden the real yeehaamcgee?

This is me. I can't abide people spreading untruths and crap. People get offended when their opinions are shown to be incorrect, basically.

Josh, the pivot on the orange 5 is almost exactly the same as the first full suss bike that showed the world that full sussers really could pedal well, long loooong before clever shocks came about.
What people miss though, is that different suss designs will respond differently to various rider dimensions and power.

Northwind

elvingtonred wrote:

It is without doubt the best 140 bike out there!

Ridden every one, have you?

dubmodder

The construction is a little basic... it could be tougher for the weight/lighter for the strength. It could be a lot stiffer too.

I'm not having a dig mate but you are totally wrong there. They are pretty much as strong as they get for the weight, and the construction is far from basic.

I also can't see how they could be any stiffer, the demo bike was uber stiff.

I have a Proflex 957 upstairs, the pivot position is in exactly the same place, inline with the middle ring, back in the day they were the mutz nutz 8)

Northwind

dubmodder wrote:

I also can't see how they could be any stiffer, the demo bike was uber stiff.

What's your point of comparison here? The QR Five's noticably a little flexy at the back, even the maxle one isn't the stiffest of rear ends. It's not a problem on either model, so I wouldn't say it takes away from the bike personally but don't get carried away, it's far from leading its class there.

The frame's a little overweight but not terribly so, around 7lbs with the RP23 (which for a comparison, is more or less the same as a Lapierre Spicy 516, a stronger and longer travel competitor). Not enough to put you off the frame if you like it. The full builds are pretty flakey though, and add weight without extra strength in places (like the 317 rims, frinstance, a bike of this price should have better).

dubmodder

The comparison is all the bikes I demoed.

I demoed one with a maxle rear end, definitely super stiff, no noticeable flex whatsoever.

I wouldn't say the Spicy is stronger either, how do you get to that conclusion?

supersonic

How do you conclude otherwise? ;-)

7lbs with shock is a half decent weight for a tough riding AM machine. The Saracen Ariel frame is the same weight mind.

I wish we could test bikes blindfold ;-)

harveyg77

Had a Five and thought it was great! It was a Pro with 819 rims, M4 brakes and Monkey-lite bars. Weighed in at 30lbs.

I realised she was good coming down a trail, but I struggled climbing and the MK (ust) tyres didn't give the grip you needed for it's descending ability. Tried a HR which gripped well but got slightly slower still when climbing.

In the end, after a brief spell with a 2010 Epic, I settled on a 2011 Stumpy FSR Elite (Brain model), shod her in Nobby Nics (2.25 front 2.1 rear just replaced by a 2.25 Ralph) and the Monkey-Lite bar for 27lbs.

IN MY OPINION my Stumpy Is a far better climber than my Five, especially on difficult terrain, the Five is 50% of what the Stumpy gives. This could be me being fitter, the 3lb weight save, 2x10 transmission or 4-bar rear. Coming down the other side the Stumpy is not quite as care-free/inspiring as the Five but the Its 95% there. I guess a 150 fork or slightly more rear sag would slacken her off enough for that extra 5%.

I think the Stumpy is better for me. It's £700 cheaper, 3lbs lighter, far quicker on climbs and virtually as quick descending. Either Fuel EX, LP Zestys etc are even better still or else the Stumpy has fell out of favour/does not get the credit it deserves.

On that note I did not really 'get' the Hope M4s. The braking was poor compared with Juicy/Elixirs, I was coming to them thinking "wow 4-pot Hopes". This improoved when I changed the pads, but again I don't feel they were far superior to the Elixirs. When I got rid I did expect to find the Elixirs poor and that I had under-rated the M4s, but that notion never came.

Harvey

Anonymous

You like your percentages don't you?
Sonic's right. Blindfolded testing would be awesome, it would eliminate people's preconceptions. It would also be funny as hell to watch

Johnny Napalm

Blindfolded

That's the style I appear to ride on a regular basis!

Torres

I haven't ridden one, but i've got a patriot from a few years back; and i belive the suspension to be vaguely similar.

I've built it quite heavy, and it's mean to go down more than up, but it still pedals resonably well despite the heft, single pivot and a coil shock.

Based on this my thinking is, if i wanted something to ride all day, not to be the fastest up, or the fastest down the hill, then i'd definitely consider one and i'd love to have a go on one.

Anonymous

Torres wrote:

still pedals resonably well despite the heft, single pivot and a coil shock.

Single pivots and coil shocks do not mean anything in terms of "pedalling well".

supersonic

Not many people realise that if the 4 bar linkage puts the virtual pivot in the same place as that of a single pivot system, all else being equal they will pedal EXACTLY the same.

Further to previous comments, there is no doubt the 5 has the right blend for a substantial amount of people, and some X factor. But I think there is also a growing amount who have decided they are going to like it before they have bought it because it is 'British', and will do anything to prove to others it is the best. They are not going to admit otherwise ;-)

Being formed and welded over here (some of it) means the frame is fabricated a little differently to things we might see out East ie much less hydroforming. Many more box sections and many more welds ie in that swing arm and the front folded section, and gussets. I can't help but feel that if the frame was hydroformed it would be lighter, stiffer and quite possibly stronger. And being built out there, cheaper. But then it wouldn't look like it does or have that British built sticker which costs.

If you are happy to pay that extra though then so be it. The full builds are much better value mind.

evo3ben

I have an Orange 5 2009 frame with the RP23 pro pedal shock. I did test a few bikes out at the time and i personally found the 5 to suit my riding style. I love it that much that i will upgrade to the 2011 frame 8) I love the looks and the design. I like my Mitsubishi evo's and they arent the best looking cars around but they are quick and do exactly what it says on the tin, as does the orange 5. Marmite, you will either love it or hate it lol, its all down to personal pref.
If i were to give advice, i would say buy the frame and self build. You can build lighter but just as strong as the pro version for the same or less money. My 5 weights in at 27.8 lbs.

Think i might start a thread the same as this about the Lapierre bikes as there seem to be owners with these that think they are the best of the best lol, or the Canyon nerve :roll:

supersonic

There is indeed a lot of hype about Canyon's from some - but just look at the price:

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... tml?b=2083

The whole bike is less than a 5 frame, yet still has a Rev 150mm fork, 10 speed SLX/XT drivetrain and comes in at less than 30lbs. Astonishing value, that can't be denied.

The XC version we have tested at WMB and is the Bike of the Year as is not just cheap, but the testers thought it rode exceptionally well too.

Johnny Napalm

Those Canyon bikes do look to good to be true - great value by the looks of them.

Can I start a thread about my Mongoose being awesome?

evo3ben

Canyon bikes are a good price with out a doubt, but reliability over long term? My 5 has been all over Wales, Glentress, CRC marathons, Chicksands on the jumps (small ones lol) and clocking up over 80km a week and still not a single problem. Can a Canyon put up with the same abuse? The XC version i would not think so as its exactly what it says, XC. No Alps for that bike. The AM version, not sure as not been tested and no one i have heard of has brought one yet. Time will tell i suppose but that is one of the things that Orange has on its side and proved it can do what it can do.
Yes the Canyon has been magazine tested, buy hay, so has the orange. Why should we believe the magazine that tested the Canyon over the one that tested the Orange or any other bike for that matter?

supersonic

Long term has yet to be established: but I know of people on this forum that have the AM version, no problems so far, and I have no reason to doubt it can't handle what it is designed for. The XC version can still put up a good show though, but it is a lighter package not designed for the bigger stuff as you say. But depends what bit of the Alps you ride, I know people who take XC race bikes there! I mentioned it merely to show the brand is not just 'all value, no performance'. Reviews do get updated with long term tests, and I shall ask about getting the AM in for review.

It is up to you which magazine you trust. I can say hand on heart the WMB does not take backhanders to write good reviews.

Anonymous

I have no concerns about frame strength with the Canyon, since they're almost certianly made by either Merida or Giant.
But I wouldn't put money on the sealing of the bearings etc. It's not that I expect them to fail early, I just don't know yet.