Contador June 6

bazbadger

In a way Contador's beef story is a clever one - his team aren't daft.

Laughable as it is in terms of credibility it is almost impossible to prove or disprove.

Contador has sat in the driving seat the whole way. That has to change.

Gazzaputt

roadiesean wrote:

Was it just me, or did everyone else marvel at the fact that on the Mountain Time Trial on Tuesday, Contador was barely breaking into a sweat whilst Nibali and Scarponi were breathing out of their ar5es and it looked like they were about to die..................and then Contador manages to smash their times by over 30 seconds over a 30 minute climb ??????????????? WTF????????????????

Even Dave Harmon said it looked like he was going to get beaten and beaten well........until with a Kilometre to go he had 2 1/2 minutes to beat them in !

Hmmm, Riccardo Ricco, Ivan Basso when he won the Giro 6 years ago, Floyd Landis on THAT day..........ring any bells ? When they say "he looks superhuman" you know what, he normally is.

So as for holding himself with grace and poise or whatever other platitudes the OP started this thread with, don't make me laugh. He is a cheat, he has been cheating for years and please God may he finally go down for it. Anything to wipe that smug smirk off his face.

Totally agree with the comparison to Ricco, Basso, Landis etc.

Performance is way to good to be true.

jerry3571

Sketchley wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

roadiesean wrote:

Oh come on Rick, he looked absolutely imperious on that climb, its not just his style, everyone was stunned.

They all said the same thing about Basso when he won his first Giro by 9 minutes......wonder how much Contador will win by.

The guy has been named in every major doping scandal in the past few years, he has never lost a Grand Tour since his first entry. Nobody is THAT good.

They are all now saying that Lance doped and never got caught its possible.

I don't know what the answer is, I'd just like to see some proper close bike racing again without one bloke beating everybody senseless every single day, he NEVER has a bad day unless he does something stupid. Everyone else rides themselves inside out for one day to keep up with him for that day and then, the next day they are toast and Mr C is out there smashing them again.



Either he is God like we haven't seen since Merckx, or he's cheating. The problem is with all of this, he was found to have Clenbuterol in his system, NO TRACE is allowed AT ANY TIME. He was given a 1 year (down from 2) by the Spanish Fed, who NEVER ban anyone and then this was reduced to NOTHING because the Spanish PM said it was not good.

Sorry, but I cannot stand that sort of untruth. If we treated our kids in the same fashion, we would have nightmare children. Instead we have a nightmare sport that is out of control.

Sorry to say this but to be honest most of the peloton seem to be on something so lets drop the "oh my god, Contador must be doping" thing as they are all on the wagon.
AC is a better athlete unless he has a deal with the testers so he can do a bit more stuff or he has some secret doping product which no one else has.
Lets forget that the other guys aren't using the usual arsenal of doping products; we're too far down the road.
I'm disappointed that the french have started to keep up with Italians and Spanish riders as this means that they must be messing about again after some years of abstinence.

That logic doesn't work. If he was / is doping all it proves is that he's a better doper (or responds better to it) not that he's a better athlete. If you allowed a free for all on doping then it does not follow that you get the best athlete winning, what you get is the best doper winning which is not the same thing. Consider for a moment a talented young climber coming up through the ranks who discovers when he gets to a pro team that he has an adverse reaction to EPO or another PED, what happens to this rider?

Christophe Bassons was one rider who was said to have the ablility of Bernard Hinault but he refused to dope (according to him) hence a very average career.
The pressure for using drugs is huge as if you have good but no brilliant ability then doping is still the serious option as you have to protect your place on the Team. If being clean and being on the team means that you get tired easily or can't keep the pace or get dropped when your orders are to be at the front then your Team Manager will be on your back and you'll have a short career. If you are the weakest in your Team and you risk losing your job, doping is offered as a way to keep your job. If the rest of the Team are doing stuff and you are clean and getting a pasting then it's doping or you look for a new career.
"When I saw riders with fat arses climbing cols like aeroplanes, I understood what was happening," said the Colombian rider, Luis Herrera talking about the first riders taking EPO.

-Jerry

B3rnieMac

right........so his hearing might be delayed til after the tour. Prudhomme has said that he would like AC to be there, ergo if the hearing is delayed, he WILL be there, and its very likely he'll win.

Just my opinion here, but the longer this goes on, and the more he wins, it seems less likely that they're actually going to pass any sort of a ban.

I think I'll focus more time on my own bike than the pros. At least I know I'M clean...

sketchley

What happens if the hearing is during the tour? Does AC have to attend the hearing? That could be interesting.

frenchfighter

Cant be bothered to post or discuss on this dodgy thread although I will say that some people would do well to educate themselves and stop jading their analysis with unwarranted, embarrassing and strong dislike.

Thing is, a lot of these people only tune in for the Tour and see him there - I'm actually surprised there are so many people talking about the Giro. You should watch him throughout the year.

If you want I can drop a couple hundred pain face photos of Contador along with quotes from him and others.

Ps. Often with dopers there is a lack of consistency. Check out this years palmares for Contador.

Volta ao Algarve
where he came 2nd on Stage 3 (summit) and came 4th in the overall.

Vuelta a la Region de Murcia
where he won stage 2 (summit), won stage 3 (ITT) and took the GC overall

Volta a Catalunya
where he won stage 3 (summit) and took the GC overall

Vuelta a Castilla y Leon
where he won stage 4 (ITT)

Flèche Wallonne
where he came 11th

Contador to race and win the Tour (sorry baby Schleck) and then race and win the Vuelta, making him a legend.

sketchley

jerry3571 wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

roadiesean wrote:

Oh come on Rick, he looked absolutely imperious on that climb, its not just his style, everyone was stunned.

They all said the same thing about Basso when he won his first Giro by 9 minutes......wonder how much Contador will win by.

The guy has been named in every major doping scandal in the past few years, he has never lost a Grand Tour since his first entry. Nobody is THAT good.

They are all now saying that Lance doped and never got caught its possible.

I don't know what the answer is, I'd just like to see some proper close bike racing again without one bloke beating everybody senseless every single day, he NEVER has a bad day unless he does something stupid. Everyone else rides themselves inside out for one day to keep up with him for that day and then, the next day they are toast and Mr C is out there smashing them again.



Either he is God like we haven't seen since Merckx, or he's cheating. The problem is with all of this, he was found to have Clenbuterol in his system, NO TRACE is allowed AT ANY TIME. He was given a 1 year (down from 2) by the Spanish Fed, who NEVER ban anyone and then this was reduced to NOTHING because the Spanish PM said it was not good.

Sorry, but I cannot stand that sort of untruth. If we treated our kids in the same fashion, we would have nightmare children. Instead we have a nightmare sport that is out of control.

Sorry to say this but to be honest most of the peloton seem to be on something so lets drop the "oh my god, Contador must be doping" thing as they are all on the wagon.
AC is a better athlete unless he has a deal with the testers so he can do a bit more stuff or he has some secret doping product which no one else has.
Lets forget that the other guys aren't using the usual arsenal of doping products; we're too far down the road.
I'm disappointed that the french have started to keep up with Italians and Spanish riders as this means that they must be messing about again after some years of abstinence.

That logic doesn't work. If he was / is doping all it proves is that he's a better doper (or responds better to it) not that he's a better athlete. If you allowed a free for all on doping then it does not follow that you get the best athlete winning, what you get is the best doper winning which is not the same thing. Consider for a moment a talented young climber coming up through the ranks who discovers when he gets to a pro team that he has an adverse reaction to EPO or another PED, what happens to this rider?

Christophe Bassons was one rider who was said to have the ablility of Bernard Hinault but he refused to dope (according to him) hence a very average career.
The pressure for using drugs is huge as if you have good but no brilliant ability then doping is still the serious option as you have to protect your place on the Team. If being clean and being on the team means that you get tired easily or can't keep the pace or get dropped when your orders are to be at the front then your Team Manager will be on your back and you'll have a short career. If you are the weakest in your Team and you risk losing your job, doping is offered as a way to keep your job. If the rest of the Team are doing stuff and you are clean and getting a pasting then it's doping or you look for a new career.
"When I saw riders with fat arses climbing cols like aeroplanes, I understood what was happening," said the Colombian rider, Luis Herrera talking about the first riders taking EPO.

-Jerry

Agree with all of that. The point I was trying to make is that if the top 10 clean cyclists all start taking dope they are not likely to stay in the same order in that top 10. IIRC there was some stuff about in "The death of Marco Pantani" book, the comment being that he was so good because of the way he responded to EPO and not just because of natural talent.

I have a real problem with the argument that they are all at it so why does it matter. It matters because not everyone responds the same way to PEDs, so we are seeing a race to find the best doper and not a race to find the best athlete.

One question that keeps playing over and over in my mind is if the difficulty of the grand tours is directly responsible for the use of PED? If they made the tours easier, with shorter stages, less climbing and more rest days, would clean athletes have more of a chance? So less incentive to dope.......

jerry3571

You know AC dopes FF; go on admit it before he gets booked!!

I predicted if he left the Bruyneel Umbrella that he would get caught and now he's on the ropes. Nostradamus or what??

-Jerry

RichN95.

Sketchley wrote:

Agree with all of that. The point I was trying to make is that if the top 10 clean cyclists all start taking dope they are not likely to stay in the same order in that top 10. IIRC there was some stuff about in "The death of Marco Pantani" book, the comment being that he was so good because of the way he responded to EPO and not just because of natural talent.

I have a real problem with the argument that they are all at it so why does it matter. It matters because not everyone responds the same way to PEDs, so we are seeing a race to find the best doper and not a race to find the best athlete.

No, doping is doping and cheating is cheating. Once these riders have stepped over that line, then being a 'better responder' is just another physcial attribute, like having bigger lungs or the right body shape. They can't complain that someone is better at cheating than they are.

stfc1

JonGinge wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

i used to think some of the riders looked like they were taking it easy until I went to a tdf individual tt and saw them close up. they - including contador the other day - are trying harder than most of us can even understand.

on tv, he might look like he's coasting. in reality, whatever "preparation" he's using, he can still only take 30 secs out of the others by laying everything on the line.

Half the time I think people are watching different coverage to me. AC always looks like he suffers. He may look smooth but the effort always shows on his face. Menchov ditto. There's many a bit of coverage over the last few years where he looks like he's screaming his head off with the pain...

It hurts with or without PEDs

I agree with this. He looked smooth because he was pedalling a very small gear that he needed a long cage rear mech for. In the past I've twiddled my way past plenty of gurners going up Ventoux and I'm clean (apart from the hayfever medicine). It still hurts, it's just less obvious when you aren't having to turn 39 x 23.

In addition, while Contador's bursts of speed are hugely impressive, it's not like he keeps those speeds up for long. He digs in (no doubt hurting himself in the process) and then settles back into his rhythm. The time gaps can stay quite constant for long spells, and we even see riders get back onto his wheel. When he has recovered just about enough, he goes again and hurts himself some more.

I don't know whether he dopes or not - the plasticiser thing many use to hang him (and which would weigh heavily against him) is no more than a rumour - but I do know that he's good.

Tom BB

frenchfighter wrote:

Cant be bothered to post or discuss on this dodgy thread

You just have though!

Lost all interest in the Giro, and I'm away on my honeymoon for most of The Tour.....if Bertie is still riding at the Vuelta then I'll probably give that a miss too. I feel that in a few years we will look back on this year as a very, very bleak period in cycling given the deaths of too popular riders and the big steaming dump that Contador is taking over the sport.

speshsteve

anyone else notice when he really tries (AC) he looks like he's grinding his teeth away.....don't people on coke do that!

dougzz

frenchfighter wrote:

Cant be bothered to post or discuss on this dodgy thread although I will say that some people would do well to educate themselves and stop jading their analysis with unwarranted, embarrassing and strong dislike.

Thing is, a lot of these people only tune in for the Tour and see him there - I'm actually surprised there are so many people talking about the Giro. You should watch him throughout the year.

If you want I can drop a couple hundred pain face photos of Contador along with quotes from him and others.

Ps. Often with dopers there is a lack of consistency. Check out this years palmares for Contador.

You refer to dislike, but blind faith is fine? You took a very defensive stance with Valverde despite overwhelming evidence of his guilt. Surely that was because you liked him as a racer, so you allowed your personal like to taint your view, yet you feel that allowing dislike of a rider to taint your view is wrong.

I like many of the pictures you post, they're great quality and make good viewing, I'm not sure the forum is the place for them but whatever, they're a nice distraction. But what do you think is proven by 100 pictures of Contador? Most people, will I believe, infer from this that you have some sort of crush on him rather than them offering any insight to whether on not he's doped.

As to dopers consistency, I think you'll find a couple of riders built up strings of 5 and 7 wins in the TdF, to my mind that's consistent, I guess you think they were clean and the big crime was black socks.

P_Tucker

Has FF ever claimed to believe that any rider is definitively clean? I don't recall reading anything that could be construed as such.

frenchfighter

dougzz wrote:

YADA

As to dopers consistency, I think you'll find a couple of riders built up strings of 5 and 7 wins in the TdF, to my mind that's consistent, I guess you think they were clean and the big crime was black socks.

Consistency doesnt mean: nothing, nothing, nothing, win, nothing, nothing, nothing for the first year then the same the next then the same the next. This is precisely the palmares of a doper.

Consistency means: win, win, win, win, win, win, win for the first year then the same the next then the same the next.

bompington

frenchfighter wrote:

Consistency means: win, win, win, win, win, win, win for the first year then the same the next then the same the next. This is precisely the palmares of a doper who's been on an effective program since the puerto days or longer

Fixed that for you.

andyrac

How is this good for the sport? Yet again - shooting itself in the foot.
Come TDF time and the larger media following - we have Bertie almost certainly leading/ winning and the ????? over whether CAS will clear him.
Marvellous.... :evil:

blazing_saddles

The issue here isn't FF's starry eyed fanboysim, but the fact that we could now face the holder of consecutive Tours and current Giro, losing these 3 GTs at some future date.
This is another potential a catastrophe for cycling, waiting in the wings.

I am surprised that Prudhomme finds this a preferential situation...............unless he knows something we don't know.
Very odd.

sketchley

AndyRAC wrote:

How is this good for the sport? Yet again - shooting itself in the foot.
Come TDF time and the larger media following - we have Bertie almost certainly leading/ winning and the ????? over whether CAS will clear him.
Marvellous.... :evil:

And the possibility of riders going for 2nd place thinking there a good chance they end up champion if he is banned. I not sure I want to watch that.

bazbadger

Perhaps this is a point where the peloton should break their self imposed 'omerta' and start cleaning it up from the inside out. Pipe dream stuff I know. They seem happy to do it if they feel the course is too dangerous.

wicked

French fighters little idol/bum pal has made an absolute farce of the Giro and we now have the very real prospect of the Tour being ruined as well before it even starts.
Thanks AC you twunt.

camerone

This is a total and utter farce. The greasy little turd is urinating all over his fellow cyclists and the sport in general. Riis must be delighted, whatever happens maximum exposure for his team and the sponsors.

Abdoujaparov

Some heated and harsh comments on this thread I reckon.

Contador probably doped but it's a certainty that many other riders in the current giro are doping. Bearing this in mind I find the best approach as a spectator is just to get on with it and enjoy the racing.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for cycling to be cleaned up but that ain't going to happen till there's outstanding testing for every banned substance that makes a difference. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen for a long long time.

wicked

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Some heated and harsh comments on this thread I reckon.

Contador probably doped but it's a certainty that many other riders in the current giro are doping. Bearing this in mind I find the best approach as a spectator is just to get on with it and enjoy the racing.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for cycling to be cleaned up but that ain't going to happen till there's outstanding testing for every banned substance that makes a difference. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen for a long long time.

Maybe so but surely when he is caught and fails said drugs test he has to be swiftly removed from racing? His lawyers need more time to prepare a defence? They have had nearly 12 months FFS. If they were to find the fabled spanish beef it would have been before now :roll:

ratherbeintobago

B3rnieMac wrote:

Prudhomme has said that he would like AC to be there

Did he actually say that, or did he say he wanted the appeal decision before the Grand Depart? The latter seems more likely, and I suspect he'll find a way of barring AC +/- Saxo Bank if it's not done by then.

Andy

BarryBonds

christ theres some haters here,

Who wouldnt have liked to see Contador take lance apart at the tour?


Cycling has always had people whove responded better to training techniques or doping or cold weather or hot weather its not pure, it never has been and it never will be.

Contador is beating the other dopers not becasue hes the only one but because he is actually better than them. hes stylish and attacks with panache
he takes the race to the opthers and not cos hes strung out on chrystal meth but becasue its his personality

whcih is why he will f uck up in the tour and lose this year and it will be a great race as a result. Does anyone honestly believe the schleck brothers arent on the sauce?

That beloved Team Sky is whiter than white?

I dont

cajun_cyclist

http://www.freep.com/article/20110526/S ... fan-s-kids

Earlier this year, how horrible, the San Francisco Giants fan got beat up in a game vs. the Dodgers in Los Angeles. Mr. Stow suffered brain damage and the suspect has been caught, maybe there will be more than one suspect in the long run, I don't know.

Baseball notes: Barry Bonds to pay for college of injured Giants fan's kids

http://www.freep.com/article/20110526/S ... fan-s-kids

Bonds though is making good news with this right now.

BarryBonds

its all about the pr, the more people think youre good the more peoiple on a jury will


Theres a lot of people think lance can do no wrong
theres a lot of patriotic Americans would rather France said thank you instead of sticthing up its heros


The whole of france is discreditied theyre just bitter becaue they got beaten

Other detractors are just bitter losers trying to sell books off the back of lance


ITs a travesty that a man who beat cancer and has had more tests thant any other athlete in the history of sport should have to defend himself.

A disgrace and its un American

I move for Dissmissal and ask that the court apologises on behalf of the whole USA for wasting Lances time

cajun_cyclist

Disappointing news to hear this is being delayed CAS shouldn't delay it, really makes me wonder.

roadiesean

I just can't understand why the UCI don't do something about any of this. It is bizarre, they make a huge song and dance about wanting a clean sport, they name names and then they allow this sort of farce go on.

Its not that I hate Contador or any of these riders and FF before you describe my "rantings" as ignorant and ill informed, let me just say I have been closely involved with cycling my entire life on two continents and I have probably watched more bike races than you have had hot dinners. What really gets on my t1ts is the fact that he's been caught, he's been found to have drugs in his system and because (like Lance) he has better lawyers than the rest of them, he gets away with it for an age (just like your other mate Valverde FF) until it all finally catches up with them, the finally ban them and take their titles away. This is a double disgrace because :-
1. It taints the sport endlessly, makes them all look like idiots
2. It turns people off watching great races because the donut winning will have his title taken away
3. And most disturbingly of all, people like Wouter Waylandts lose their life away (not always literally) in the cause of a race which is meaningless because the guy who "wins" it is a cheat and will probably lose it at some point in the future. Ask Oscar Pereira whether he REALLY feels like a TdF winner, he didn't get the glory on the day, Landis the cheating, drug taking maggot took that and then spent the next 5 years trying to pretend (like Contador, Hamilton, Ricco et al) that it wasn't me Guv, its not fair, I was robbed. In short IT SUCKS !

It really isn't about whether or not they are all at it, it is the fact that he has finally been busted, he was named in Puerto and "oh surprise another Spanish rider named that gets off" and finally he gets caught, spins some load of old pony and pulls the wool over the UCI's eyes and gets to race and win for another bunch of time. It makes me sick.

I'm with yer man above, its time to give up watching and get out and ride my bike.


:roll: :roll: