Carbon melting or not?
Comments
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DesWeller wrote:danowat wrote:Everything has a melting point :roll:
Apart from materials that sublimate
EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!
Smart ass, ok then, everything has a point of transition from one form of matter to another :roll: 0 -
What a question, of course it won't melt but it will dissolve if ridden in the rain. 0
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danowat wrote:DesWeller wrote:danowat wrote:Everything has a melting point :roll:
Apart from materials that sublimate
EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!
Smart ass, ok then, everything has a point of transition from one form of matter to another :roll:
Proteins tend to decompose before they melt or go gaseous.0 -
DesWeller wrote:danowat wrote:Everything has a melting point :roll:
Apart from materials that sublimate
EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!
Even materials which sublimate will melt at the correct pressure.
Carbon tends to catch fire long before it melts though. You need to consider that.0 -
rhext wrote:DesWeller wrote:danowat wrote:Everything has a melting point :roll:
Apart from materials that sublimate
EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!
Even materials which sublimate will melt at the correct pressure.
Carbon tends to catch fire long before it melts though. You need to consider that.
Pressure is (more or less) a constant unless the OP is riding on the moon.
That would be quite good. No wind resistance. Quite a lot of radiation though.- - - - - - - - - -
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bompington wrote:
Oh no, it's wings are melting!
Oh wait, they're supposed to be like that...darned plastic airliners
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DesWeller wrote:rhext wrote:DesWeller wrote:danowat wrote:Everything has a melting point :roll:
Apart from materials that sublimate
EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!
Even materials which sublimate will melt at the correct pressure.
Carbon tends to catch fire long before it melts though. You need to consider that.
Pressure is (more or less) a constant unless the OP is riding on the moon.
That would be quite good. No wind resistance. Quite a lot of radiation though.
You're not thinking this through. You might be riding on the top of Everest, you might be riding on the sea bed. Significant pressure variation. My advice would be not to assume that your bike will sublimate if you subject it to temperatures in excess of 3,500 degrees. It might melt, it might catch fire. You should be prepared for all eventualities. Carry a bucket. And a fire extinguisher.0 -
Sorry... no offence intended.. it was supposed to be a jokedanowat wrote:springtide9 wrote:Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!
Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf
Section 9.4.2 :Melting point
You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.
Everything has a melting point :roll: (quite why you have to be defamatory about it is beyond me, but hey ho), the point is, the carbon fibre bikes WILL NOT MELT in normal circumstances Simon0 -
rhext wrote:DesWeller wrote:rhext wrote:DesWeller wrote:danowat wrote:Everything has a melting point :roll:
Apart from materials that sublimate
EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!
Even materials which sublimate will melt at the correct pressure.
Carbon tends to catch fire long before it melts though. You need to consider that.
Pressure is (more or less) a constant unless the OP is riding on the moon.
That would be quite good. No wind resistance. Quite a lot of radiation though.
You're not thinking this through. You might be riding on the top of Everest, you might be riding on the sea bed. Significant pressure variation. My advice would be not to assume that your bike will sublimate if you subject it to temperatures in excess of 3,500 degrees. It might melt, it might catch fire. You should be prepared for all eventualities. Carry a bucket. And a fire extinguisher.
That's true. The new bike I have for my tour of the Marianas Trench might not be suitable for crossing the Alps next year.
I stand corrected. I will have to watch out for unscheduled frame evaporation.- - - - - - - - - -
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cadseen wrote:I have also seen a carbon bike suddenly fail and disintegrate while breaking sharply !!!
Yeah, but what was the rider doing with the bike at the time?- - - - - - - - - -
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66.5 degree C
150 degree F0 -
-steves- wrote:Having read a recent post about people saying carbon bikes melt, and pigs fly to the moon on a weekly basis and other such rather tall stories.....
As a complete newbie (hence posting up in this section) I was considering a carbon framed bike as my next bike, however after reading that I am now somewhat reluctant to invest any money into it.
Can anyone say if a carbon framed bike can honestly just melt on a hot day or in the back of a car etc?
Oh, and what makes me doubt this is that carbon fibre is often used for high temp stuff, but also know thought they used high temp epoxy (or whatever it is) for making those? I dunno? :oops:
Oh, Bless you dude! We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
do you have the face of a little puppy? aah.
Death or Glory- Just another Story0 -
My friend has a carbon fibre coffee mug. Boiling water does not melt it.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
Bar Shaker wrote:My friend has a carbon fibre coffee mug. Boiling water does not melt it.
Oooooo where did he get it from?0 -
ddraver wrote:-steves- wrote:Having read a recent post about people saying carbon bikes melt, and pigs fly to the moon on a weekly basis and other such rather tall stories.....
As a complete newbie (hence posting up in this section) I was considering a carbon framed bike as my next bike, however after reading that I am now somewhat reluctant to invest any money into it.
Can anyone say if a carbon framed bike can honestly just melt on a hot day or in the back of a car etc?
Oh, and what makes me doubt this is that carbon fibre is often used for high temp stuff, but also know thought they used high temp epoxy (or whatever it is) for making those? I dunno? :oops:
Oh, Bless you dude!
Aww, your sooooooo sweet Didn't know you cared 0 -
cadseen wrote:
That sounds serious! I guess this is why the cycling sports authorities have banned carbon fibre bikes from any form of cycle racing?
I have also snapped both a cro-mo steel & aluminium bike clean in half - so we probably should avoid any bikes made form these materials as well.
A trip to road/off-road races (both Amateur and Pro) will put your mind at rest. It's funny how the people who are in denial that carbon is a suitable material to build a frame from, seem not to care that their lightweight forks are generally made from the stuff. Simon0 -
danowat wrote:Bar Shaker wrote:My friend has a carbon fibre coffee mug. Boiling water does not melt it.
Oooooo where did he get it from?
No idea. He did tell me years ago but I have since forgotten. He used to work for Prodrive and it was from a motorsport source. It weighed almost nothing as it was fully vac'd and autoclaved.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
To answer one of the OP's questions you are correct that there are different compositions used when it comes to the carbon weave and resin.
Carbon Fibre is used for so many applications these one composition would not suit all applications.
For example a carbon fibre sport racket of some kind will not be subject to the extreme heat that carbon fibre brake disks would. I'd imagine carbon fibre brake disks will get exceedingly hot!
Different chemicals are used in the resins and the way the carbon fibre weave is manufactured also varies to provide these different variations.
Some resins will soften at much lower temperatures than others. I'm unsure whether the technique used to manufacture bike frames is in an autoclave or an oven, I assume the cheaper ones may be oven cooked under vacuum and the more expensive ones in an autoclave under high pressure.
Based on the lowest quality carbon fibre I've had experience with it gets cooked at about 160-180c. It's not going to melt easily!
This said there are examples where carbon fibre panels have softened in teh sun. I believe one of the Ferraris, maybe the F50, had issues where in the sun the resin would soften slightly and you could see the carbon fibre weave pattern coming through the paint. Hopefully the technology used to manufacture bikes has taken these kind of things into consideration. Most modern supercars body panels are 100% carbon fibre these days and you dont see them melting at the side of the road!
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Interesting responses here. Obviously a lot of good natured humour but clearly there is a very real undertone in some of the posts of "what a stupid question".
Sure, a lot of people here know a fair bit about carbon and its use in bikes but how many of us actually really know about its application at an engineering level? Not many I'd guess!
Personally I can quote things i've read or heard from people in the know such as when Chris Boardman talks about the importance of resins and how many frames do soften because the resin isn't good enough. But, in truth, I only have a superficial knowledge of carbon and its uses and applications. Just like most other posters on here.
Reasonable question from the OP if you ask me. He clearly knew that some of what he'd read was utter tosh and was seeking clarification.
Some people need to be careful perched on those high horses.0 -
/gullible on/
Morstar - you have said what I was thinking.
I think this got started when someone posted a picture of a CF frame (Pinarello??) that has wavy, tapered seat stays and front fork which LOOKED LIKE it had melted, and some scamp suggested as much.
Since then, some have been throwing petrol on the fire, and probably laughing their socks off.
So I'm off to make a brew in my chocolate teapot......
Lycra Man
/gullible off/FCN7 - 1 for SPDs = FCN60 -
maybe they wouldnt use a giant oven to cure it in the building process if it melted it
google autoclave :?:0 -
You're spot on.morstar wrote:Interesting responses here. Obviously a lot of good natured humour but clearly there is a very real undertone in some of the posts of "what a stupid question".
Sure, a lot of people here know a fair bit about carbon and its use in bikes but how many of us actually really know about its application at an engineering level? Not many I'd guess!
Personally I can quote things i've read or heard from people in the know such as when Chris Boardman talks about the importance of resins and how many frames do soften because the resin isn't good enough. But, in truth, I only have a superficial knowledge of carbon and its uses and applications. Just like most other posters on here.
Reasonable question from the OP if you ask me. He clearly knew that some of what he'd read was utter tosh and was seeking clarification.
Some people need to be careful perched on those high horses.0 -
I think the sarcastic comments are not necessary directed to the OP - but to the people who do actually seem to believe that Carbon Fibre frames actually do melt!
If it wasn't for 'these people' - this thread wouldn't have made it to it's third page! It just would have been....
OP: "Do Carbon Fibre frames melt?"
Answer: "No they don't."
And there would have been nothing more to say on the subject. Less so within this thread... but previous ones... it's no wonder newbies (and we are all new once) keep asking the question.Simon0 -
Paul32uk wrote:For example a carbon fibre sport racket of some kind will not be subject to the extreme heat that carbon fibre brake disks would. I'd imagine carbon fibre brake disks will get exceedingly hot!
Brake discs are actually quite different. They are 'grown' by firing hydrocarbon gasses at carbon fibres which then grow larger and entwine at atomic level. The process takes many hundreds of hours at intense heat and pressure. Resins are not used. The final disc is machined out of the billet of carbon fibre that you end up with. They are remarkably light (the density feels similar to wood, rather than steel) giving huge savings in unsprung weight. They are also much more thermally stable than traditional 'grey-cast' iron.
You can buy a Felt AR1 or a Dogma for less than it costs to make a pair of carbon brake discs.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
-steves- wrote:springtide9 wrote:Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!
Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf
Section 9.4.2 :Melting point
You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.
SO it does melt, thought so, it just needs a bit of heat, and I am guessing the sun is hotter than 650 degrees, so carbon fibre will melt in the sun, if it gets close enough, why didnt someone just say that
No, no, it will simply decompose at 650C you have to get to 3500C for it to melt... Won't be problem though as you, the rider, will have long since burned to ash by that point!Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Bar Shaker wrote:Paul32uk wrote:For example a carbon fibre sport racket of some kind will not be subject to the extreme heat that carbon fibre brake disks would. I'd imagine carbon fibre brake disks will get exceedingly hot!
Brake discs are actually quite different. They are 'grown' by firing hydrocarbon gasses at carbon fibres which then grow larger and entwine at atomic level. The process takes many hundreds of hours at intense heat and pressure. Resins are not used. The final disc is machined out of the billet of carbon fibre that you end up with. They are remarkably light (the density feels similar to wood, rather than steel) giving huge savings in unsprung weight. They are also much more thermally stable than traditional 'grey-cast' iron.
You can buy a Felt AR1 or a Dogma for less than it costs to make a pair of carbon brake discs.
Yep. The material is called carbon-carbon and is classed as a ceramic I believe. I still don't understand how the designers avoid having them ignite during use though!- - - - - - - - - -
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they do sometimes catch fire at a gp. as could the magnesium according to hammonds program the other night. it certainly burnt well in chemistry class.0
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-steves- wrote:Having read a recent post about people saying carbon bikes melt, and pigs fly to the moon on a weekly basis and other such rather tall stories.....
As a complete newbie (hence posting up in this section) I was considering a carbon framed bike as my next bike, however after reading that I am now somewhat reluctant to invest any money into it.
Can anyone say if a carbon framed bike can honestly just melt on a hot day or in the back of a car etc?
Oh, and what makes me doubt this is that carbon fibre is often used for high temp stuff, but also know thought they used high temp epoxy (or whatever it is) for making those? I dunno? :oops:
Jesus.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:-steves- wrote:Having read a recent post about people saying carbon bikes melt, and pigs fly to the moon on a weekly basis and other such rather tall stories.....
As a complete newbie (hence posting up in this section) I was considering a carbon framed bike as my next bike, however after reading that I am now somewhat reluctant to invest any money into it.
Can anyone say if a carbon framed bike can honestly just melt on a hot day or in the back of a car etc?
Oh, and what makes me doubt this is that carbon fibre is often used for high temp stuff, but also know thought they used high temp epoxy (or whatever it is) for making those? I dunno? :oops:
Jesus.
Dont ya just love a know it all :roll:0
