Carbon melting or not?

-steves-

Having read a recent post about people saying carbon bikes melt, and pigs fly to the moon on a weekly basis and other such rather tall stories.....

As a complete newbie (hence posting up in this section) I was considering a carbon framed bike as my next bike, however after reading that I am now somewhat reluctant to invest any money into it.

Can anyone say if a carbon framed bike can honestly just melt on a hot day or in the back of a car etc?

Oh, and what makes me doubt this is that carbon fibre is often used for high temp stuff, but also know thought they used high temp epoxy (or whatever it is) for making those? I dunno? :oops:

rick_chasey

It won't melt.

-steves-

Rick Chasey wrote:

It won't melt.

Thank you

bompington

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner

danowat

Have you ever seen an F1 car, racing in the desert heat, with exhaust temps running at hundreds and hundreds of degrees melt?.

meanredspider

Watch Richard Hammonds engineering prog on F1 - there's loads about CF in there. It was developed for jet engines. It's "cured" by baking in an high-pressure oven and it's used for F1 cars. That tells you all you need to know about its temperature resistance.

andrewjoseph

my robin reliant started to melt once.

it was on fire though.

meanredspider

andrewjoseph wrote:

my robin reliant started to melt once.

it was on fire though.

I had an ice cream melt once too. It wasn't made from carbon fibre either though

-steves-

danowat wrote:

Have you ever seen an F1 car, racing in the desert heat, with exhaust temps running at hundreds and hundreds of degrees melt?.

Nope, don't follow F1, never have done, never will. :shock:

Sharkyssurfers

Rick Chasey wrote:

It won't melt.

but it will explode and rob you or all your earnings

-steves-

meanredspider wrote:

Watch Richard Hammonds engineering prog on F1 - there's loads about CF in there. It was developed for jet engines. It's "cured" by baking in an high-pressure oven and it's used for F1 cars. That tells you all you need to know about its temperature resistance.

Yup, knew it could be used in high temp area's, but didnt know if their were different types of resin or cure methods in order to do this.

I would obviously not have asked the question if there had been any doubt in my mind, therefore doubt must have existed and not knowing exactly how carbon fibre is made, cured, etc etc, who am I to guess, best to ask to know for sure, even if you do look a bit of a plumb

-steves-

Sharkyssurfers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It won't melt.

but it will explode and rob you or all your earnings

Explode? :shock:

danowat

-steves- wrote:

danowat wrote:

Have you ever seen an F1 car, racing in the desert heat, with exhaust temps running at hundreds and hundreds of degrees melt?.

Nope, don't follow F1, never have done, never will. :shock:

I don't follow line dancing, but I know there shoes don't melt when they are dancing :roll:

-steves-

danowat wrote:

-steves- wrote:

danowat wrote:

Have you ever seen an F1 car, racing in the desert heat, with exhaust temps running at hundreds and hundreds of degrees melt?.

Nope, don't follow F1, never have done, never will. :shock:

I don't follow line dancing, but I know there shoes don't melt when they are dancing :roll:

They have carbon fibre shoes for line dancing, well thats something else I have learnt, cheers

danowat

Could have, at least they wouldn't melt

Seriously though, you just have to think about the applications that Carbon fibre is used in, and imagine if they'd use something that is likely to melt "under the sun"

Mark Elvin

danowat wrote:

Have you ever seen an F1 car, racing in the desert heat, with exhaust temps running at hundreds and hundreds of degrees melt?.

Er yes, I used to work on them.

springtide9

Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!

Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf

Section 9.4.2 :Melting point

You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.

-steves-

danowat wrote:

Could have, at least they wouldn't melt

Seriously though, you just have to think about the applications that Carbon fibre is used in, and imagine if they'd use something that is likely to melt "under the sun"

But there are various ways to make most things, like I say, differnet resins etc. I am no engineer, I dont deal with carbon fibre at all, I just know its light and strong and lots of people rant on about how good it is. Whats to say that using one type of resin wouldn't give it totally different properties, in fact, I am sure it would change it.

I mean, why does carbon fibre block radio signals? Beyond me that one too?

-steves-

springtide9 wrote:

Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!

Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf

Section 9.4.2 :Melting point

You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.

SO it does melt, thought so, it just needs a bit of heat, and I am guessing the sun is hotter than 650 degrees, so carbon fibre will melt in the sun, if it gets close enough, why didnt someone just say that

ai_1

It's not about the carbon, it's about the resin as the original poster suggested.
You can be sure that aircraft, F1 cars, yachts and most off the less exotic applications don't all use identical materials. Carbon fibre is almost always used as a composite material, impregnated with a resin to form solid structures. Normally Epoxy or polyester resin is used and there are different formulations of each.

I don't know what spec is usually used for bike frames but the question is reasonable. I doubt the resin would melt but it may soften enough to allow distortion.
I once had a carbon fibre racket head bend severely when I left it on the parcel shelf of my car on a hot day. If softened enough for the strings to pull it way out of shape.

meanredspider

-steves- wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!

Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf

Section 9.4.2 :Melting point

You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.

SO it does melt, thought so, it just needs a bit of heat, and I am guessing the sun is hotter than 650 degrees, so carbon fibre will melt in the sun, if it gets close enough, why didnt someone just say that

Err

9.4.2 Melting point : ca. 3500°C

The surface of the sun is 5000C so I suppose it would melt once it was right up close

-steves-

Ai_1 wrote:

It's not about the carbon, it's about the resin as the original poster suggested.
You can be sure that aircraft, F1 cars, yachts and most off the less exotic applications don't all use identical materials. Carbon fibre is almost always used as a composite material, impregnated with a resin to form solid structures. Normally Epoxy or polyester resin is used and there are different formulations of each.

I don't know what spec is usually used for bike frames but the question is reasonable. I doubt the resin would melt but it may soften enough to allow distortion.
I once had a carbon fibre racket head bend severely when I left it on the parcel shelf of my car on a hot day. If softened enough for the strings to pull it way out of shape.

The original question should have used the word distort instead of melt, as I never had visions of it looking like a bowl of chocolate on the floor, more a distorted frame. :?:

rick_chasey

Ai_1 wrote:

It's not about the carbon, it's about the resin as the original poster suggested.
You can be sure that aircraft, F1 cars, yachts and most off the less exotic applications don't all use identical materials. Carbon fibre is almost always used as a composite material, impregnated with a resin to form solid structures. Normally Epoxy or polyester resin is used and there are different formulations of each.

I don't know what spec is usually used for bike frames but the question is reasonable. I doubt the resin would melt but it may soften enough to allow distortion.
I once had a carbon fibre racket head bend severely when I left it on the parcel shelf of my car on a hot day. If softened enough for the strings to pull it way out of shape.

You'd think bike builders would know this.

They do.

IT WON'T MELT.

-steves-

meanredspider wrote:

-steves- wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!

Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf

Section 9.4.2 :Melting point

You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.

SO it does melt, thought so, it just needs a bit of heat, and I am guessing the sun is hotter than 650 degrees, so carbon fibre will melt in the sun, if it gets close enough, why didnt someone just say that

Err

9.4.2 Melting point : ca. 3500°C

The surface of the sun is 5000C so I suppose it would melt once it was right up close

Ooops, I was looking at 9.4.7 :oops:

springtide9

There is a good phrase that comes to mind....

"Designed to be fit for purpose."

I have yet to see any carbon fibre frames or wheels that state that they cannot be used in hot countries due to the extreme heat.

If the 'glue' can be made to withstand hundreds of degrees - I wouldn't expect that a frame manufacturer would choose to use the stuff that melts at 60 degC. Negligence springs to mind.

roadracedave

I think if you are going near a place that is 3500°C then you will other things to worry about than 'Will my bike melt'!

Heat caused by braking on a carbon fibre rim can be enough to heat the rims up to fairly high temperature, enough to add a couple of bar of pressure to the tyre, but the rims never melt.

-steves-

roadracedave wrote:

I think if you are going near a place that is 3500°C then you will other things to worry about than 'Will my bike melt'!

Heat caused by braking on a carbon fibre rim can be enough to heat the rims up to fairly high temperature, enough to add a couple of bar of pressure to the tyre, but the rims never melt.

Well they did say we might be iin for a hot summer, so 4000 degrees might be on the way, plus with global climate change and all that :roll:

Aggieboy

-steves- - obviously, you truly didn't know and had enough balls to come out and ask, you have my respect.


Just so you don't need to ask Campag is better that Shimano though.

danowat

springtide9 wrote:

Of course Carbon fibre and hence bikes can melt! Anyone who says different is an idiot!

Just take a look at the data sheet.....
http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-Car ... -fibre.pdf

Section 9.4.2 :Melting point

You just need to make sure that they are kept from some heat sources.

Everything has a melting point :roll: (quite why you have to be defamatory about it is beyond me, but hey ho), the point is, the carbon fibre bikes WILL NOT MELT in normal circumstances

desweller

danowat wrote:

Everything has a melting point :roll:

Apart from materials that sublimate

EDIT: Good grief, imagine how terrifying it would be if your rims just turned to gas above a certain temperature?!

-steves-

Aggieboy wrote:

-steves- - obviously, you truly didn't know and had enough balls to come out and ask, you have my respect.


Just so you don't need to ask Campag is better that Shimano though.

Thanks

And you just covered that one off beofre i got chance to ask it, so what about SRAM and Shimano then