The beginners guide to chinese carbon wheels

ugo.santalucia · May 2013

amaferanga wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

One of the issues with most Chinese wheelsets is that they usually use alloy nipples. A rebuild with brass nipples if you have issues with breaking the alloy ones would be a good idea.

To be honest, alloy nipples are the last of the worries in these sets I have seen. The build quality was pathetic

I'm sure a competent wheel builder could easily resolve any build issues.

Yes,
the only problem is that these rims come with no Max tension and they are built with a very low one, does it mean it is all they can take? If I tension a rim to 1100-1200 N where it should be, will it crack? Who will pay if it cracks?
Hence you won't find many who want to take on the job for the sake of a couple of tenners...

willy b · May 2013

amaferanga wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

One of the issues with most Chinese wheelsets is that they usually use alloy nipples. A rebuild with brass nipples if you have issues with breaking the alloy ones would be a good idea.

To be honest, alloy nipples are the last of the worries in these sets I have seen. The build quality was pathetic

I'm sure a competent wheel builder could easily resolve any build issues.

I'm sure they could however that would be an additional cost.

I guess it depends what you will be using them for. If they are for occasional Sunday rides in nice weather then i'm sure they'll be fine and you'll have no issues. If you're racing and putting a lot of miles on them in various conditions then I personally would feel much more comfortable with a pair of Mavics etc...

kfinlay · May 2013

Mettan wrote:

kfinlay wrote:

especially when racing but then I don't suppose that is a thought you have even considered. :evil:

How rude.. - that's a bit personal isn't it??

:evil:

(and the wheels are too bulky ideally for 'on the road', so no need to worry - I've got other more spritely ones for racing)

So are you saying it's okay if the wheels fail and you crash and possbily involve another racer or road user that could end up with bike/vehicle damage or personal injury it's ok or will you happy to pay for damages, loss of income, inconvenience etc. Yeah it's quite unlikely but then again you've been advised by people who know what they are talking about how poorly built your wheels are! Rude? you may take it that way but consider the consequencies of my actions; your attitude seems to be way worse :roll:

I'm sure I'm wasting my time but see the other posts since my last reply - if you do go and get them trued/retensioned at least agree that the wheelbuilder won't be responsible for trying to tension the spokes correctly if the rim cracks. And if you do buy a set of 80s or whatever, buy from someone like Ugo, strada or wheelsmith.co.uk where you'll get something that is actual quality and value for money. As the saying goes, buy cheap, buy twice! my 50m carbon clinchers cost £630 from wheelsmith - twice the price of chinese rubbish but 10 x the wheels!

Mettan · May 2013

kfinlay wrote:

So are you saying it's okay if the wheels fail and you crash and possbily involve another racer or road user that could end up with bike/vehicle damage or personal injury it's ok or will you happy to pay for damages, loss of income, inconvenience etc. Yeah it's quite unlikely but then again you've been advised by people who know what they are talking about how poorly built your wheels are! Rude? you may take it that way

I don't need a lecture off you sunshine.. :roll: - I've got 4 sets of wheels now... (and a covered rear for TT'ing) - and mix and match depending on the Race//TT/chaingang/club run etc. (As I said earlier, I've other lighter rimmed wheels for crits) - regards UK buying, yes, a buyer is going to get better build quality on average relative to buying something that has been thrown to gether in China (with less attention to quality control) - but we knew that already.... all unfounded asumptions with you, isn't it

- my last post on this thread....

Cheers.

amaferanga · May 2013

willy b wrote:

I'm sure they could however that would be an additional cost.

I guess it depends what you will be using them for. If they are for occasional Sunday rides in nice weather then i'm sure they'll be fine and you'll have no issues. If you're racing and putting a lot of miles on them in various conditions then I personally would feel much more comfortable with a pair of Mavics etc...

I raced, trained and even commuted on Chinese carbon clinchers last year - several thousand miles. I just bought the rims and built them up myself and I don't claim to be a great wheel builder, merely competent, so in my limited experience I'd say they're really nothing like as bad as some folk who've never owed any are claiming. Maybe I got lucky or maybe these rims really aren't hugely inferior like some are claiming.

ugo.santalucia · May 2013

amaferanga wrote:

willy b wrote:

I'm sure they could however that would be an additional cost.

I guess it depends what you will be using them for. If they are for occasional Sunday rides in nice weather then i'm sure they'll be fine and you'll have no issues. If you're racing and putting a lot of miles on them in various conditions then I personally would feel much more comfortable with a pair of Mavics etc...

I raced, trained and even commuted on Chinese carbon clinchers last year - several thousand miles. I just bought the rims and built them up myself and I don't claim to be a great wheel builder, merely competent, so in my limited experience I'd say they're really nothing like as bad as some folk who've never owed any are claiming. Maybe I got lucky or maybe these rims really aren't hugely inferior like some are claiming.

No matter how little your experience is, I am 99% sure the wheels you have built are better than those you get from Carbonzone and the likes.
Building a carbon rim is much easier than building a shallow alloy rim, as they are so stiff that they retain the shape even with wrong tensions... you need to do something seriously wrong to have them out of true... whether the wheels lasts is another matter and it is up to how well it was tensioned and destressed.

kfinlay · May 2013

Mettan wrote:

- my last post on this thread....

something sensible at last :P

monkeyeatsps3 · May 2013

My 50mm wheels have just arrived, great service, arrived in England in 4 days and if it wasn't in customs for 10 day they would of been here a lot quicker! Look amazing and the novetec hubs are very quite.

ugo.santalucia · June 2013

A detailed report on a set of chinese carbon clinchers, including the rebuild... here

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... rt-rebuild

Kupepe · June 2013

Hello,

I am thinking going for a pair of FARsports 38 clinchers. The model I am interested in is "New FSC38-CM" . Has anyone tried it? Any problem with the ED hub ? I am 1.92 and weight 92 kilos. 20/24 spokes are safe to go ?

This is the description on the site of the producer :

Rims: 700c 38mm*20.5mm, clincher. Aero shape.
3K /UD, glossy/matte.
20/24H (16-32H acceptable).
Brake track: 220 degree high temperature brake surface.

Hubs: ED hub(ceramic) hub, black.
65g front, 192g rear.
6 pawls, USA Enduro bearings,
4 sealed bearings rear&front.

Cassette Body: Shimano 8.9.10. 11sp.
Campagnolo 9.10.11sp.

Spokes: Sapim CX-ray, black.
Nipples: Sapim Sils
Internal&external
black, red,silver
　　　 Nipples washers included.

Lace: Standard, radial front, radial rear non-drive side.2X drive side.
Newest (2:1 Ratio), for rear, 16 cross X 2 lace drive side, 8 spokes
radially lace non drive Side.

Weight: 1260g/set +/-20g, (w/o, QR)
Spare parts: 1set of skewer, 2pair of V-brake pads.

Thank you in advance

smidsy · June 2013

Have you actually read any of this thread?

Bottom line is you get what you pay for and as long as you treat them as a cheap disposable item you may well be happy with them.

At 92 kilos I would not personally go with such low spoke count wheels.

sloppyschleckonds · June 2013

smidsy wrote:

Have you actually read any of this thread?

Tubs or clinchers?

smidsy · June 2013

Very droll! :-)

DrWally · July 2013

it has a touch of white supremacy, this whole thread. I mean, this is not rocket science we are talking about. As if, just because somebody lives in China, would not be able to put together a decent wheel. It appears to me that in general people are satisfied with their purchase. The ratio positive / negative reactions of BUYERS is at least as high as from buyers of established brands. On the contrary even, but I attribute that to the fact that buyers from established brands are just more pissed off and hence complain faster if something goes wrong.

If European Based wheel builders feel threatened by their low-cost import and you feel it's unfair competition because they deliver low quality, why don't you show it to us, the unknowing mass. Some pictures and measurement instruments, a youtube movie, I mean, in the age of technology, I don't see how and especially why you wouldn't do that? It sure would convince me not to buy there and have a look at your web site. It would help your business, and facilitate our choice.

To sum up, after having searched the net for 4 hours straight, I haven't found any compelling reason not to buy a 400dollar wheelset from one of those chinese manufacturers, rather than some vague statements accompanied by some power terms that I don't see backed up by any evidence. If I missed something, please direct me to it.

rolf_f · July 2013

DrWally wrote:

To sum up, after having searched the net for 4 hours straight, I haven't found any compelling reason not to buy a 400dollar wheelset from one of those chinese manufacturers, rather than some vague statements accompanied by some power terms that I don't see backed up by any evidence. If I missed something, please direct me to it.

From five posts up (shouldn't have taken you four hours to find that!)

ugo.santalucia wrote:

A detailed report on a set of chinese carbon clinchers, including the rebuild... here http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/content/chinese-carbon-clinchers-report-rebuild

DrWally · July 2013

True story. In my defence, the threads on Chinese stuff are LONG.

ok convincing report. Thanks for that.

Rolf F wrote:

From five posts up (shouldn't have taken you four hours to find that!)

DrWally · July 2013

(with the risk of kicking in an open door again:) given all the buzz/uncertainty these Chinese manufacturers have created over the years, these guys got it right, marketing wise

C6Cycling wrote:

"What makes our wheels special is that they are not really special at all. There are no fancy CFD or wind tunnel data, no cutting edge dimples, and certainly no fancy marketing. We’ve utilized existing designs and proven manufacturing techniques to build a reliable, fast, and affordable wheel. Using proven aerodynamic designs are significantly better than your average aluminum wheels. Given a solid a reliable build using quality spokes and hubs, you can get a reliable and fast wheel for a reasonable price."

they import them from the east, and do the quality check themselves. You pay a premium for that, but you loose some of the uncertainty. They are also pretty direct about it, and don't bullshit around. You get what you pay for.

anyway, I'm getting eager to at least test a pair. I wonder how they compare to my DA c50's.

http://c6cycling.com/

Birzzles · May 2014

I bought a pair of wheels from http://www.light-bicycle.com in china. The rear failed on the second ride out, after less than 60 miles in total. I weight 70kg, and was using careful braking as I didn't fully trust the wheels. It was on a descent of a 300ft hill. The rim folded along the braking surface.

[url=Https://plus.google.com/photos/108365899306903135741/albums/6015838312868572225?authkey=CIH7856elbCVtgE]Https://plus.google.com/photos/10836589 ... 56elbCVtgE[/url]

mroli · May 2014

Very similar to a friend's experience (I was with him) - 3km down a 24km descent:

andi1363 · May 2014

I bought a pair of 38mm's from Carbonzone. Decent components but very poor build quality. Loose spokes and rear dish was off centre. Any out the saddle effort would generate rub even with the calipers opened up. Carbonzone offered to pay for any remedial work but then went silent on me when I advised the cost of this work. Was a whole £15. With the spokes tensioned correctly, these are super so far. I have done approx 1,000 miles so far.

ugo.santalucia · May 2014

andi1363 wrote:

I bought a pair of 38mm's from Carbonzone. Decent components but very poor build quality. Loose spokes and rear dish was off centre. Any out the saddle effort would generate rub even with the calipers opened up. Carbonzone offered to pay for any remedial work but then went silent on me when I advised the cost of this work. Was a whole £15. With the spokes tensioned correctly, these are super so far. I have done approx 1,000 miles so far.

The thing is building a wheel is a pretty easy thing to do. It takes me about one hour to do it well, maybe less, maybe more... maybe it would take you 3-4 hours or 8 hours but the end result would be similar. The problem is that in China the concept of spending an hour to make one thing only is no longer familiar, because you can make 5 things in the same time, or even ten and earn more money. The result is what it is and it lacks consistency as there will be one boy who can make a decent wheel in 10 minutes and one that can only make a crap one in the same time, but both want to make many wheels to earn more money. Workforce is not very loyal either, given the pay is rubbish, which means training is not worth it and skills are inconsistent too.
Every year after Chinese New Year many workers at H plus Son don't go back to the factory and every year just after that period you can be sure there is a big demand for rims and no supply...
Then of course it's not the same everywhere and richer companies can afford to pay better and workers receive better training etc. but sweatshops lacing wheels to sell cheap to western customers are what they are.

What is missing is not necessarily quality, but consistency

cycleclinic · May 2014

It is the factory that carbon zone buy from that is the problem here not all chinese sourced wheels. I have not bought any and I will not do so but I know people who have and they have had no issues. H plus son is an example of a chinese company that makes an excellent product.

Unless you know the source of the wheels is a good one just buy the rims and even then you need to use a good known source and get someone here to build them up.

tduncan86 · November 2014

Re: Chinese Carbon Clinchers from diy-bike: After <2 months and 1500km (115psimax, 75kg rider) both front and rear rims cracked down the centre of the tube bed - wheels purchased from diy-bike of eBay. diy-bike offers a warranty - but return shipping is excessive (More than the cost of the wheels). Multitude of emails back & forth - photos, denials, videos - diy acknowledged the failure- but refused to honour their warranty, leaving them with full profit and me with expensive garbage. AVOID diy-bike of Shenzen/Guangdong/China eBay seller.
A YouTube video of the crack can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY0OGszdX6c

ugo.santalucia · November 2014

tduncan86 wrote:

A YouTube video of the crack can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY0OGszdX6c

Nice! :twisted:

s-t-e-v-o · August 2015

Has anybody had any luck contacting Far Sports with issues with their wheels?

I've been riding mine happily for a while but I think there's a problem with one of the rims so I've stopped riding them. I've emailed them for assistance including pictures and so on, but no reply. Sent again a week later, no reply. I sent to Sandy, Mae and Windy, who were the three contacts that assisted me during the buying process.

If anyone knows of another contact I should use please let me know. I would like to sort this out with them directly.

Cheers...

ugo.santalucia · August 2015

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19681896#p19681896]s-t-e-v-o[/url] wrote:

I sent to Sandy, Mae and Windy...

What's the problem with the rim?

s-t-e-v-o · August 2015

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19681941#p19681941]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

What's the problem with the rim?

Well I'd prefer to give them the chance to comment and resolve directly with me before posting images and speculation on a public forum. I think that's only fair - hope you understand.

I've now managed to get in touch - seems there was a spam filter that was getting in the way of communication between two of our addresses, so some mail was never getting delivered. Hopefully we'll be able to resolve now.

I'll happily pop back to post the issue and their response later - no problem.

veronese68 · August 2015

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19681965#p19681965]s-t-e-v-o[/url] wrote:

I'll happily pop back to post the issue and their response later - no problem.

Please do. It's reasonable to expect a problem every now and then, how it is resolved can be more telling.

David Griffiths · January 2016

I've now got 4 sets of Farsports wheels and have been happy with all of them. When I did crash and destroy a rim, there was no issue arranging a replacement at a reduced crash replacement price. Please find my review of their most recent wheels below.

Farsports 50mm 23mm Wide Carbon clincher DT Swiss hubs review

I've been riding Farsports wheels for 2 years now; these are the fourth pair to grace my bikes and I've been very happy with their performance and customer service. I've been asked to provide a review of their new 50mm carbon clinchers and I'm gladly obliging. I've decided to walk you through the journey from purchase to riding.

Ordering

I decided to purchase Farsports wheels initially after researching cheaper but still high performance alternatives to the mainstream brands. Farsports had many happy customers on the online forums.

To order I first selected a Wheelset from the site and then emailed their sales address (sales3@farsports.cn). The wheels come packaged securely in a sturdy cardboard box with internal supports as shown. I had a swift response from a representative; Sandy, who was very helpful and answered my many questions. When I had decided on specifications (you can spec the wheels using any of their available parts) I was quoted a price including delivery which I could pay for by Paypal or bank transfer. For all my subsequent dealings I have contacted Sandy directly (sandy@farsports.cn).

Delivery

From ordering to receiving the product it has typically been around 2 weeks. The wheels are built to order in around 3-4 days where upon completion you will receive multiple photographs of your wheels to ensure you're happy with the order.

Orders are then shipped via ems tracked mail which takes around another 3 days before it's processed by Parcelforce international hub. The remaining time is taken up by customs checks, charges and delivery – I've always been charged and its around £40 per wheelset. Also contained are some lightweight skewers and good carbon brake pads.

First impressions

First impressions were that these wheels looked great and were of good quality. I loved how the graphics (which come in stealth black also, or not at all) matched the branded straight- pull DT-Swiss hubs which do appear to be an upgrade in terms of aesthetics and possibly long term durability. The wheels look premium, belying their very reasonable price (~£400 per set). They look great on my bike as I'm sure you'll agree!

The wheels ran true, very smoothly and weighed just under 1600g which is great for carbon clinchers (I find the claimed weights to be very accurate with Farsports wheels). I had no issues fitting tyres to the rims, possible with no levers with a bit of thumb strength!

Performance

From my first ride I've been very impressed. This first ride turned out to be during the Boxing Day gales and I genuinely had no issues controlling the bike in what must have been 40mph gusting crosswinds. The modern curved rim profile really seems to work – my old planet x 50mm v shaped rims would be rather scary in those conditions!

Braking is also the best I've experienced on a carbon rim – Farsports claim to have improved the braking surface with a special basalt coating and a stiffer and angled brake track and it's noticeable – modulation is good and stopping power strong enough to lock out the rear wheel if you pulled hard enough. In the wet the brakes do take a fraction of a second to engage but I wasn't concerned riding them in the Glasgow rain.

I took the wheels with me on a recent trip to Calpe for some winter training and I didn't regret it. Granted they don't feel as nippy as my 20mm tubulars off the blocks but cruising along on the flat or on a descent they definitely feel faster. Faster than my 50mm tubulars in those situations. Taking in the many climbs in the area I didn't feel as if I was being held back – they're still lighter than my low profile aluminium training rims – and I was impressed with the stiffness. There was no rear wheel pad rub where there would have been in my more lightweight wheels.

Overall Impressions

In summary I'd say I'm highly impressed so far with the wheels. As yet, I've only logged a few hundred miles on them (life of a junior doctor not conducive to training!) but they've performed in gales, wet Glaswegian winter and hurtling up and down the mountains of the Costa Blanca. They remain true despite hitting many unavoidable Scottish potholes.

In my opinion they're an ideal middle ground between weight, aerodynamics, practicality and cost. I'm certainly going to ride them in favour of my tubulars in some of the flatter races this season.

Thanks for reading and if you have any questions feel free to ask. The code: ProVision5 still stands for a 5% discount off non-sale items for fans of our team Pro Vision Cycle Clothing.

Photos: https://goo.gl/photos/LWKr7y2vLvsGoti49

David.

Anonymous · January 2016

Writing this while on strike, hey

The beginners guide to chinese carbon wheels

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