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The beginners guide to chinese carbon wheels

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  • gabriel959gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    indeed - a failure waiting to happen, that is how I see it!!! :D
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • kamil1891kamil1891 Posts: 658
    I was thinking about that today and I've decided I will pay the fees anyway. I would dig the money from somewhere.. and by looking at the whole situation again, I agree, it was my fault that I didn't make sure I'm fully aware of custom fees. Anyway, I've received a letter and to my surprise it's only 40 quid, so not bad at all :) I just hope the wheels are going to be in good condition :D

    Thanks guys for your input and putting me on the right lines :)

    Edit: And regarding carbon wheels and their failures I can only say that I've never used carbon wheels and I will probably never buy them to use on ROADS. From stories I've heard there is too many things to go wrong with them. I'm used to 2kgs powertaps, I even won my first 4cat race on them and if I went for a new wheels for road riding/racing I would pick something light and stiff, probably handbuilt. However, I bought carbon wheels but for the track use. No braking, no potholes, no descents, no rain, what can go wrong? Just pure aerodynamic benefit from 88mm rims :D
  • kamil1891 wrote:
    I was thinking about that today and I've decided I will pay the fees anyway. I would dig the money from somewhere.. and by looking at the whole situation again, I agree, it was my fault that I didn't make sure I'm fully aware of custom fees. Anyway, I've received a letter and to my surprise it's only 40 quid, so not bad at all :) I just hope the wheels are going to be in good condition :D

    Thanks guys for your input and putting me on the right lines :)

    Edit: And regarding carbon wheels and their failures I can only say that I've never used carbon wheels and I will probably never buy them to use on ROADS. From stories I've heard there is too many things to go wrong with them. I'm used to 2kgs powertaps, I even won my first 4cat race on them and if I went for a new wheels for road riding/racing I would pick something light and stiff, probably handbuilt. However, I bought carbon wheels but for the track use. No braking, no potholes, no descents, no rain, what can go wrong? Just pure aerodynamic benefit from 88mm rims :D

    I hope you bought the tubulars...
  • kamil1891kamil1891 Posts: 658
    of course I did and I've also found pretty good tubular tyres on sale at Ribble ...challenge pista 320 (this: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... haltuba170 ) :D
  • kamil1891 wrote:
    of course I did and I've also found pretty good tubular tyres on sale at Ribble ...challenge pista 320 (this: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... haltuba170 ) :D

    Perfect...
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,162
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Hi ugo,

    If you are referring to these http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPP ... r_wheelset they are £500 (so £150 or more) and also heavier than the ones that you can buy from China.

    I wouldn't buy either in any case too much that can go wrong with them - too little time!

    Cheers,
    Gabriel

    I have recently purchased some from planet x. I had an email through with a code for £100 off making them £399 - an offer that was also available on the website until october 10 (I dare say the offer will be repeated again)

    The reason they (Planet X) are heavier in part may due to the fact that it is an alloy rim with a carbon clincher - where as the chinese one I beleive are a full carbon rim
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Ugo and others are always telling us that these Chinese clincher rims are bad (and in the case of Ugo that Kinlin rims are bad).

    My experience with a set of Chinese clinchers that I've used for over a year, 2 race seasons and a number of training miles is good. I've had zero problems. (same goes for the 3 sets of wheels I have with Kinlin alloy rims - zero problems).
    More problems but still living....
  • amaferanga wrote:
    Ugo and others are always telling us that these Chinese clincher rims are bad (and in the case of Ugo that Kinlin rims are bad).

    My experience with a set of Chinese clinchers that I've used for over a year, 2 race seasons and a number of training miles is good. I've had zero problems. (same goes for the 3 sets of wheels I have with Kinlin alloy rims - zero problems).
    I think you are misquoting... I am just saying I don't see the point in buying from China when the same product is available over here for 50-100 pound more... basically one hopes to get away with customs, otherwise the price is identical for the same product.

    As for Kinlin... I find their quality dubious... the drilling is primitive, the kind of stuff I could achieve at home with my drill, which inevitably induces fatigue cracks (Planet X model B crack a lot and they are Kinlin), they are not very round, which means in the building one has to compensate by using slightly inhomogeneous tensions, leading to a less durable wheel.
    That said, I have only built 2-3 sets of those, I might have been unlucky. However, I can't recall one Ambrosio rim that was somewhat below average... especially the tubular rims... Nemesis and Crono are always perfect
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,162
    not chinese - but not bad value @ £399 from planet x with uk warranty. wanted them without the logos tbh - but looks better than I expected.


    kouta.jpg
  • cal_stewartcal_stewart Posts: 1,840
    ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    eating parmos since 1981

    Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Aero 09
    Cervelo P5 EPS
    www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13038799
  • ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    They are OK, a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years... the trick is wearing them off before they get the chance to do so. They are OK for the price, I certainly would not build them on expensive hubs for a premium wheelset as some do, but built up with standard components as Model B for that price they are just right
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    They are OK, a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years... the trick is wearing them off before they get the chance to do so. They are OK for the price, I certainly would not build them on expensive hubs for a premium wheelset as some do, but built up with standard components as Model B for that price they are just right

    A good proportion crack? Where and how did you do this research? Do you have the exact figures?
    More problems but still living....
  • amaferanga wrote:
    ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    They are OK, a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years... the trick is wearing them off before they get the chance to do so. They are OK for the price, I certainly would not build them on expensive hubs for a premium wheelset as some do, but built up with standard components as Model B for that price they are just right

    A good proportion crack? Where and how did you do this research? Do you have the exact figures?

    How can you ask for figures? Do I look like the national institute for rim statistics? Among the people I know there have been a few cases of Kinlin made rims cracking within the first 2-3 years, whether that represents 1 or 20% or those sold I have no idea, they certainly seem to be more prone to cracks than other rims
    ... which makes perfect sense, considering other rims with the same profile cost more and weigh a lot more... unless at Kinlin they know it better, it is called underengineering
  • lotus49lotus49 Posts: 763
    d87francis wrote:
    http://www.dutycalculator.com reckons for the £320 I paid I should be shelling out £67 on VAT and £15 on duty, if I leave them a negative feedback on ebay for not sending with the correct invoice can they then give me a negative?

    Sorry for all the questions, I'm a bit f*#ked off really.

    No they cannot, sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for buyers but it would be grossly unfair of you to do so. The seller did what he could to minimise the duty. The fact that this didn't work is neither within his control or in any way his fault.

    You should be able to challenge the levy by sending a copy invoice to Customs & Excise. The fact is that UK law does mandate both import duty and VAT, that is hardly the fault of a chap selling bike wheels in China.
  • lotus49lotus49 Posts: 763
    amaferanga wrote:
    ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    They are OK, a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years... the trick is wearing them off before they get the chance to do so. They are OK for the price, I certainly would not build them on expensive hubs for a premium wheelset as some do, but built up with standard components as Model B for that price they are just right

    A good proportion crack? Where and how did you do this research? Do you have the exact figures?

    How can you ask for figures? Do I look like the national institute for rim statistics?

    This is a polite way of pointing out that one person's experience based on a very small sample is not something from which one could draw any reliable conclusion
  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    amaferanga wrote:
    ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    They are OK, a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years... the trick is wearing them off before they get the chance to do so. They are OK for the price, I certainly would not build them on expensive hubs for a premium wheelset as some do, but built up with standard components as Model B for that price they are just right

    A good proportion crack? Where and how did you do this research? Do you have the exact figures?

    How can you ask for figures? Do I look like the national institute for rim statistics? Among the people I know there have been a few cases of Kinlin made rims cracking within the first 2-3 years, whether that represents 1 or 20% or those sold I have no idea, they certainly seem to be more prone to cracks than other rims

    My rear Model B cracked after about 12 month's of riding 1-2x per week (and spokes started pulling through spoke holes). a few other people had the exactly the same issue on another forum I frequent. to be fair though they are only 24 spoke iirc so were they not so cheap they wouldn't be the best idea as a high mileage training wheel
  • lotus49 wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    ugo think you have been unlucky with kinlin as I'm a big lad that hammers kit and I swear by model b's
    They are OK, a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years... the trick is wearing them off before they get the chance to do so. They are OK for the price, I certainly would not build them on expensive hubs for a premium wheelset as some do, but built up with standard components as Model B for that price they are just right

    A good proportion crack? Where and how did you do this research? Do you have the exact figures?

    How can you ask for figures? Do I look like the national institute for rim statistics?

    This is a polite way of pointing out that one person's experience based on a very small sample is not something from which one could draw any reliable conclusion

    I think if you know 10 people with Kinlin rims and 3 of them have had problems with the rims, you cannot conclude that 30% of the lot are faulty, but you can definitely conclude that they are not the most reliable product on the market... I think you can definitely do that without incurring in someone outrage.
    I think reporting personal experience and that of others one knows about is what forums are all about... if one cannot accept this, then he should limit his reading to the manufacturers brochures where the sun always shines and everyone is fast, lean and happy on their stiff and light equipment
  • CrispyappCrispyapp Posts: 344
    I've read all of this thread and have to say I'm loving the look of the wheels from carbon zone and it seems almost everyone here that's ordered a pair is happy with them.....

    Has anyone been abroad with there set and ridden the mountains? How did they perform, are they safe descending at speed? Do they still feel stiff or can you feel any flex through them.... These are my concerns that I'd love to hear more about. If I could hear more on these area then I'd be happy to order a pair.

    Thanks
    Look 595 ultra - F+F for sale.....
    Cervelo r5
    Kinesis T2 2013 winter bike
    Merida Carbon 1500 flx MTB
  • lotus49lotus49 Posts: 763
    I think if you know 10 people with Kinlin rims and 3 of them have had problems with the rims, you cannot conclude that 30% of the lot are faulty, but you can definitely conclude that they are not the most reliable product on the market... I think you can definitely do that without incurring in someone outrage.
    I think reporting personal experience and that of others one knows about is what forums are all about... if one cannot accept this, then he should limit his reading to the manufacturers brochures where the sun always shines and everyone is fast, lean and happy on their stiff and light equipment

    I agree and if you had said that you knew 10 people of whom 3 had cracked rims then I expect that Cal_Stewart wouldn't have made his comment. No-one is outraged and I'm certainly not suggesting personal experience is not worth reporting but if you are going to make a sweeping comment like "a good proportion of those rims crack within 2/3 years" it would be useful to back it up.
  • lotus49lotus49 Posts: 763
    You can now get 38mm tubs for a measly £260 inc P&P (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/700C-38mm-tub ... 4abc32d1de)

    Don't take this as a recommendation as I haven't tried them but it's good to see the price heading south. At this rate, decent carbon wheels will soon be cheaper than any of the alternatives.
  • Neale1978Neale1978 Posts: 484
    great price

    The main reason the prices are what they are is due to particular brand names not being attached to them. Most carbon bike parts made over there are just as well made as other companies that have a better image or are more well known. You are also cutting out the middle man effectively. The hubs are not the best but are certainly good enough. 'High end' does not always have to equate to high prices. A lot of bike part prices esp wheels are way over priced
  • bails1310bails1310 Posts: 361
    edited February 2013
    Aware not much to add to this thread apart from experience, so here's my 2peneth.

    Decided on rims only and hand build the rest.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321032278016? ... 1423.l2649

    Rims were from eBay, decided on 23mm clinchers. Plenty of good feedback, contacted some of the previous purchasers for follow up feedback, all were still very pleased.

    Coms with seller were realy good, tracking number day after paying, received 5 days after paying, no duty or customs charges, maybe as the box is smaller than the comeplte wheelset?

    Rims arrived in perfect condition, beleive hubs cause problems with some boxes, again not the case with rims only. Well packaged, rims look really good & completely blemish free. Went for 3k matt finish.

    Weight was advertised at 1000g +/- 30 grams. Front was 490g, rear 540g so all in all happy.

    Planed build will be HopePro3 hubs in red, s/steel spokes and red nipples.

    Weight - rims 1030g, hubs 370g = 1400g plus spokes and snipples - no idea how heavy these will be [20/24], estimate total weight at 1600g+-??

    Bike shop has them and hope to get built by next weekend, not that theres any rush. I'll post some pictures of the fully built when there back, will put the Kuota with these on then in the 'Your Bikes' section, may be a while before I can say how they ride but those who purchased wheel sets were very complementary, said the wider rim helped handling, comforts and hope it will give better strenght.

    Few photos below from today.

    photostream
    Kuota Kharma Race [Dry/Sunny]
    Raleigh Airlite 100 [Wet/Horrible]
  • And the bike shop has Hope PRO 3 in 20/24 drillings?
    I was under the impression these only came as 28-36... Please update once they are built...
  • bails1310bails1310 Posts: 361
    I queried with them, advised rims were 20/24 but advised there were Hopes to fit.

    Shop is v well established and trust them http://www.btownbikes.com/, obviously if they have it wrong, they will sourse some other hub options.

    Ugo - thanks for your advise and e-mails re wheels build - I have a sizable credit note sitting on my account in the shop in question which was the only reason why I opted for them and not you in the end, hopefully something I wont regret.

    I will of course update when I have something more interesting to post.
    Kuota Kharma Race [Dry/Sunny]
    Raleigh Airlite 100 [Wet/Horrible]
  • bails1310bails1310 Posts: 361
    And the bike shop has Hope PRO 3 in 20/24 drillings?
    I was under the impression these only came as 28-36... Please update once they are built...

    You've got me worried! :cry:
    Not knowledgable enought to read between the lines, does this help?

    http://www.hopetech.com/page.aspx?itemid=SPG73&tab=specification
    Kuota Kharma Race [Dry/Sunny]
    Raleigh Airlite 100 [Wet/Horrible]
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    Well the link claims they do come in 20/24 so the shop may well have some.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • smidsy wrote:
    Well the link claims they do come in 20/24 so the shop may well have some.

    Indeed... I have never seen them...
  • bails1310bails1310 Posts: 361
    edited February 2013
    Wheels all buit and very pleased with them, visually.

    Probably wont get much use for a bit but no complaints from the bike shop who built them, can only admire them from the garage at the moment!

    Anyone thinking of the Hope Hubs then they look and sound great.

    Have stuck the on the Kharma and looks good, really suits it - I think anyway. Will post the full finished article when I can get chance to get some decent photos.

    8459025710_6f65597c96_d.jpg
    8459028772_7d30582132_d.jpg

    Can someone PLEASE help me with photos, Ive tried adding the & tags previously and it doesnt work.
    Should I add the URL bits either side? Im usually OK with tecky stuff but this is a bridge too far, sorry - FAIL!!! :roll:
    Kuota Kharma Race [Dry/Sunny]
    Raleigh Airlite 100 [Wet/Horrible]
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    8459028772_7d30582132_d.jpg

    You need to click on the photo then go to view all sizes. Select a size you want and then right click the blue text adjacent the download section above the photo and select copy.

    Then paste it between the IMG tags .

    If you quote my post you will see the code. It needs to have the .jpg (which is why you have to go to view all sizes).
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • bails1310bails1310 Posts: 361
    edited February 2013
    Works as far as I can 'Copy shortcut' but not 'Copy' as is not highlighted/avalibale, so can only past the same links as I did above and not a .jpg which I think I need from your post/quote?
    Kuota Kharma Race [Dry/Sunny]
    Raleigh Airlite 100 [Wet/Horrible]
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