Your best ever TT...

freehub

I've only got one more TT left this year and it's a 10, I won't be doing any open 25's this year but I don't see why I can't try to go faster for 25's on my own.

My main aim is to get under the hour for 25 miles, that's what I want to do then improve on it.

What HR is tempo?

The only things I can train on at the moment is HR and speed, I don't have and can't afford a power meter.

My max HR is around 197, I got it up to 202 once but only once. I can only get it that high on hills, if I sprint flat out on the flat I can only get it to around 185-190.

danowat

What HR is tempo?

I don't train to HR, tempo for me is "comfortably uncomfortable"

The only things I can train on at the moment is HR and speed, I don't have and can't afford a power meter.

Neither do I, HR is too easily affected by external factors so I use P.E. instead (percieved effort level)

My max HR is around 197, I got it up to 202 once but only once. I can only get it that high on hills, if I sprint flat out on the flat I can only get it to around 185-190.

In that case, your MHR isn't 197, you cannot exceed your MHR, and hence, if you MHR isn't right, all your HR zones won't be right either.

freehub

So when I do 2x20 I should push to the level where I am just about managing to hold the effort then stay there for 20 mins?

So if I do 2x 20 on Tuesday.
5x5 on Thursday.
Training ride on a Saturday
"TT" on a Monday @ 25 miles.

Would that be better training? It's just getting confusing again for me, I think that's why I gave up last year.

danowat

2 x 20 should be a hard session, basically as hard as you can for the whole 20 mins, but its important not to go too hard that you can't make the whole session.

I rarely do 2 interval sessions a week, I'd say alternate between the 5 x 5 and 2 x 20 on a weekly basis, and replace one with a decent length tempo or aerobic level long(er) ride.

Are you doing any low level base aerobic work?, not all your training should be high intensity, you need low(er) level and recovery stuff to.

I am far from an expert, all I know is whats been working for me, if I was an expert, I certainly wouldn't be paying for someone to sort out my training schedules for me!

I am still not convinced your "personal 25 mile TT" is a great idea, but thats just me.

freehub

What is wrong with doing a personal 25 mile TT? I don't see what difference it is for example if I did it on a TT course and pushed TT pace? I thought it'd be good idea if I'm not actually going to do an official 25 mile even this year as I want to up my speed for next year.

The only difference I can see is on the CTT forums I can't put the time down as it's not recorded officially. I just want to be able to do 25 miles in under an hour, so I want to try.

How long is a tempo ride? So it should still be fast? After my 20 odd mile yesterday I just rode home making sure my HR never went above 150 and I averaged 20mph.

So I only need to do like 2 rides per week?

One interval session and a long tempo ride?

I presume I'm doing low level work, I go out for the odd 30 mile ride now and again, and I thought I was pushing but having had the HR monitor on for the first time this year yesterday I may be only pushing 120-140 most of the time.

amaferanga

Do you have trouble taking in new information cos I'm sure you're asking exactly the same questions now that you asked last year and the year before....

sub55

Certainly no expert on training protocol, but i do believe that a lot of people put to
much emphasis on intervals , sure interval sessions are the peak of the pyramid so to speak. but you also need the base. had the pleasure of talking with many champions over the years and the common denominator is always time at tempo. tempo was once described to me by a multply national champion as " 100 mile tt pace " which always seemed about right to me.

freehub

How do I know what tempo is for me? Just under TT pace? 140bpm after fully recovered?

Training for TT's seems horrible to me, I'll end up doing 2x 20 and recovered the next day, then I'll be twiddling my thumbs until the weekend.

I'm used to riding between 4 and 6 times a week and making sure I am properly recovered. Just seems like if all I do is interval training, cycling will feel like a job, just I won't be paid....

danowat

I ride 6 days a week, and am never twiddling my thumbs.....

sub55

well i could tell you what my training consisted of, but you probably wouldn't want to know :shock:

freehub

All I want to do is do the "correct" training to be able to do 25mph or higher for an hour or two and also be able to do normal rides like 60 mile group training rides that I enjoy and they're 80 odd miles for me.

Billy Dunlop

freehub wrote:

All I want to do is do the "correct" training to be able to do 25mph or higher for an hour or two and also be able to do normal rides like 60 mile group training rides that I enjoy and they're 80 odd miles for me.

Get a coach. End of.

markos1963

Did a club 10 last night and whilst the time was no great shakes it was a course pb and my best time of the season so far.
The interesting thing was I decided not to look at the HRM and go on PE. I spent less time fretting about going too hard and concentrated on the best lines and gears for the course. When I looked at the data afterwards my HR was almost flat for the whole course!!

danowat

markos1963 wrote:

Did a club 10 last night and whilst the time was no great shakes it was a course pb and my best time of the season so far.
The interesting thing was I decided not to look at the HRM and go on PE. I spent less time fretting about going too hard and concentrated on the best lines and gears for the course. When I looked at the data afterwards my HR was almost flat for the whole course!!

Good stuff, you can get too hung up on external devices, and most of the time its best to go on feel.

Was it the Godric club 10 on the B10/44? (or 43, I can never remember which is which)

markos1963

danowat wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Did a club 10 last night and whilst the time was no great shakes it was a course pb and my best time of the season so far.
The interesting thing was I decided not to look at the HRM and go on PE. I spent less time fretting about going too hard and concentrated on the best lines and gears for the course. When I looked at the data afterwards my HR was almost flat for the whole course!!

Good stuff, you can get too hung up on external devices, and most of the time its best to go on feel.

Was it the Godric club 10 on the B10/44? (or 43, I can never remember which is which)

No it was the B10/5 at Sheringham, I was 10s quicker than the previous week at Godric!(the Godric course is supposed to be 40s quicker than Sheringham)

danowat

Ahhh, the one at Pretty corner?, I like that course, I PB'd on there, once

freehub

Billy Dunlop wrote:

freehub wrote:

All I want to do is do the "correct" training to be able to do 25mph or higher for an hour or two and also be able to do normal rides like 60 mile group training rides that I enjoy and they're 80 odd miles for me.

Get a coach. End of.

How would you like to transfer the money into my bank account?

I can do Paypal or BT whatever you prefer?

Thanks.

peejay78

freehub wrote:

Billy Dunlop wrote:

freehub wrote:

All I want to do is do the "correct" training to be able to do 25mph or higher for an hour or two and also be able to do normal rides like 60 mile group training rides that I enjoy and they're 80 odd miles for me.

Get a coach. End of.

How would you like to transfer the money into my bank account?
I can do Paypal or BT whatever you prefer? Thanks.

there's a lot of conflicting advice on this thread; essentially you need to find what works for you. the 'get a coach' advice is a bit OTT, as well as fiendishly expensive, as you have pointed out.

Perceived effort is ok, when you have not much else. a combination of PE and HRM is probably a good way to go. I use both.

One of the better ways of training for me is to race more. the biggest fan of like-for-like training techniques was Obree, and he wasn't that shabby.

I haven't done any 10, or 25 mile TT efforts in practice, i just ride to work 4 times a week, it's 15 miles each way with two massive hills. the hills function as intervals. when i'm feeling strong, i really attack them. when i feel weak, i ride slowly. on wednesday or thursday i do a 10 mile TT. on saturday or sunday i do a 10, 25 or 50 open event, often one on each day (not 2 x 50 though).

the early season, i.e beginning of march till end of may, is spent doing hilly sporting courses, including a few RP events or the Little Mountain. i prepared for the hilly 42 mile LM by doing some similar length and profile rides at pace. this has a huge effect on my later form.

i use club events to hone and manage form. aside from that, i've focused on getting aero as possible, being careful about diet and even more careful about recovery. when i'm knackered i take time off to recover.

this approach works for me; i've managed a 20.47 for a 10, 52.15 for a 25 and 1.58 for a 50. there's a lot more to come with the longer events, which i may focus on next year. this considerably up on last year, and bodes well for the upcoming hillclimb season, which is what i am best at.

Surfr

Hilly 22 for us last night. Almost identical conditions to when we last rode the course in May and yet I managed to knock 2 minutes 14 seconds from my course PB. Perceived effort seemed harder throughout and comparing the graphs at home later on Garmin Training Centre this was displayed in all my readings. Everything was just that little bit faster than the last time I rode the course. slightly higher HR, slightly faster speed. Oh and I had a pointy helmet for the descent.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/102187466

freehub

I did a hilly 10.7 tonight, it's got a 17% climb in it and about 750ft ascent, I came 3rd with 28:47.


I'd likely have being 1st, or near first if I never had to slow down behind someone else, but there was nothing I could do as we were coming up to a turn, it would have being very dangerous and careless of me to attempt an overtake not to loose time. The fastest time on the night was 28:27.

danowat

First ever 100 yesterday, and boy was it a learning curve!!, managed 4:15.01, my 10 mile splits were.

10 25.45
20 25.46
30 25.49
40 24.28
50 25.21
60 25.46
70 25.46
80 25.16
90 25.18
100 25.23

Pacing and fuelling was key, and how those quick boys do it in 3:3x I'll never know!!!!

peejay78

was that the ECCA one? splits are really consistent, i'm guessing the course was fairly flat. i did one in wales and it wasn't flat at all.

great effort.

markos1963

Well done Dan, I'd be happy with just one of those splits atm!

danowat

peejay78 wrote:

was that the ECCA one? splits are really consistent, i'm guessing the course was fairly flat. i did one in wales and it wasn't flat at all.

great effort.

EDCA, close enough

Yes, fairly flat, 4 laps of a 25 mile circuit, with a bit of a climb at one end, elevation change was +173m, -131m

peejay78

i did the welsh one, had 650 metres of up. really sapped the strength, long and draggy...

danowat

Sod that, flat is bad enough!

peejay78

100 mile time trials are bloody awful. that's my conclusion after riding my first one.

danowat

I didn't find it too bad, in hindsight I was a little conservative on my pacing, but I was playing it safe.

Bike and position was perfectly comfortable, saddle was no problem at all (thank god for Adamo!), fuelling worked very well, carried 1.25lt's of energy drink in my speedfil, and refilled at the halfway point with a bottle handed by my missus, no need to stop, and thats all I needed.

Definately will do another and try and improve, want to get as close to 4hr as possible.

Surfr

I too rode my first 100 on the weekend. The Welsh champs. Good god that is hard work. I found it much much harder than the 12 Welsh hour champs last month. Either I didn't go hard enough in the 12 or I absolutely turned myself inside out on Sunday, I'm not sure which. Awaiting the official results but I think I rode a 4:32:56. It felt very hard for the first 30 miles then my legs seemed to warm to it and I settled into a solid pace. This may have been due to me riding a crit in Tywyn some 14 hours before my start time!

2 750ml bottles of squash+carbs and 3 gels at 25, 50 and 75 miles did the trick for me unsupported. Well, I was supported but my wife was asleep in the car back at HQ with a spare bottle! I didn't need it anyway.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/103381372

danowat

Nice one, how was the route?, looks fairly hilly (555m compared to my 382m gain).

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/103012755