Cost of repairs and other rising cycling costs
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CiB wrote:They have to pay rates, min wage + or whatever to staff, plus enough to cover all other costs as well as sell stuff at a rate that they won't scare the punters off to Wiggle or wherever to buy kit, whilst still showing a profit.
I know, I don't know how much bike mechanics get paid or how much it is to run a shop. £120 on a full service, which involves stripping, cleaning, putting everything back, brakes checked, hubs checked, new cables and a wheel truing seems OK maybe even good.*
But when you add parts £250 on a £350 bike seems steep.
I wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was the Kharma. But at the same time, if I was the casual cyclist I would probably be put off by the cost....I think I'll try it on at my local TV shop. If I take a cheap portable in for repair, should it only cost a fiver to look at it, but when the plasma one fails the hourly rate should reflect the higher value of the bigger telly?
I guarantee the plasma will cost more because the parts will cost more.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:I guarantee the plasma will cost more because the parts will cost more.
Parts yes, labour no, hence CiB's comment about the initial 'have a look' being same cost.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:I know, I don't know how much bike mechanics get paid or how much it is to run a shop. £120 on a full service, which involves stripping, cleaning, putting everything back, brakes checked, hubs checked, new cables and a wheel truing seems OK maybe even good.*
But when you add parts £250 on a £350 bike seems steep.
Well the main issue here is the cost of the parts, and whether or not they actually need replacing.0 -
What parts need replaced?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Think they are more than that, a mate always used to buy them at £120 a pairClever Pun wrote:dhope wrote:robz400 wrote:PS. Who still buys 'label' jeans? I top out at around £45.
I do :oops:
Got a few pairs of Diesel jeans that I love, fit amazingly and look great
I didn't think Diesel jeans cost much more than £45, unless you go to Selfridges to buy them
or any shop from memory (i'm pretty sure they're around the £60-90 mark)Nicolai CC0 -
davmaggs wrote:I support your point DDD. It does get to the point where repairs cost so much that perfectly good bikes are probably not work sinking more money into. I have an old Reynolds frame that I can't part with because of this issue. Seems criminal to junk it.
That's the old line of 'Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing'.
Same applies to cars. People think old cars are unreliable - but actually, they are unreliable not because they are old but because they are not maintained properly by their owners due to the ratio between cost of servicing and value of car. If people valued things for their function, rather than their resale value, their lives would be a lot cheaper.
Get that Reynolds frame fixed. It is a good bike. Who cares what it is worth. I'm getting some handbuilt wheels for my Dawes. They'll cost the same as I saw a mint, identical Dawes Horizon go for on Ebay last year. Even the same size! Does that mean I'm wasting my money? Should I bin my Dawes which is pretty minty itself and get the ebay one and bin that one too when something breaks? I hope not!Faster than a tent.......0 -
Labour costs depend where you shop.
My LBS changed a cassete from one wheel to another for £2.
The roadie specific( cycling snob ) shops ( ie cashing in ) wanted £8.
£50 @ my LBS for changing a chainset, fitting a new chain, front & rear mechs, new brake/gear levers,internal routed recabling, changing handlebar, stem & seatpost & wrapping the handlebars ( all set @ correct torque value including use of carbon assembly paste where required ) seems reasonable to me even if I did supply the parts.
The above even featured a phone call for me to pop into the shop before the handlebars were wrapped to ensure I was happy with the position of the levers.
As for the price of parts then shop around.
SRAM force levers & mechs for £330 is a bargain compared to RRP.
This reminds me I will have to pop back soon to take up the LBS offer of popping back in to index the gears & adjust the brakes free of charge ( cables stretch sir ).
Of course while I am there I will be stocking up on some spares, inner tubes etc at a price slightly above internet prices but, he looks after me & I will look after him
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If anything the labour costs on a decent bike should be lower, and often seemto work out that way. On a decent bike you have fewer seized parts, mechs work better and it's generally a pleasure to work on as long as it's reasonably clean. On old horrific junk bikes every little thing is usually a nightmare.
Ironically our highest level service is probably the best value in terms of hourly rate purely because the highest level service obviously gets a lot more attention, the basic services are knocked out at around £60-£100 an hour whereas the better services are usually closer to £20 p/h.
Equally it is reasonable to expect more expensive parts to be fitted free, if I was buying new cables and > £200 of drivetrain bits i'd expect the labour to be no more than a basic service (ie gears and brakes) purely because of the volume of money spent.
As for rip off stores doing the whole ah your chain is gone need a new cassette and chainrings, i'd never use them again either. I'd expect to be walked through the reasoning and sent away on a new chain to see if it works, or only have it replaced if that was considered impractical.0 -
nmac_2011 wrote:Labour costs depend where you shop.
My LBS changed a cassete from one wheel to another for £2.
The roadie specific( cycling snob ) shops ( ie cashing in ) wanted £8.
£50 @ my LBS for changing a chainset, fitting a new chain, front & rear mechs, new brake/gear levers,internal routed recabling, changing handlebar, stem & seatpost & wrapping the handlebars ( all set @ correct torque value including use of carbon assembly paste where required ) seems reasonable to me even if I did supply the parts.
The above even featured a phone call for me to pop into the shop before the handlebars were wrapped to ensure I was happy with the position of the levers.
As for the price of parts then shop around.
SRAM force levers & mechs for £330 is a bargain compared to RRP.
This reminds me I will have to pop back soon to take up the LBS offer of popping back in to index the gears & adjust the brakes free of charge ( cables stretch sir ).
Of course while I am there I will be stocking up on some spares, inner tubes etc at a price slightly above internet prices but, he looks after me & I will look after him
This is what its about. A shop that offers good customer service and reasonable prices will always keep customers coming back. Plenty on this thread have said that DDD should 'suck it up' or similar but its missing the point. There are shops that'll take the pi$$ because they expect those going in will just 'suck it up' because they are too naive or gullible to do anything differently.
My advice.. shop around. The time and effort will pay for itself.0 -
^ very well put.
A BSO will in no way be put together as well as a quality machine. In terms of care of assembly or longevity of parts.
Buy cheap then expect bits to not last as long as say a £2000 pound machine.
Obviously there is a diminshing returns type thing going on but, would the sub £100 BSO riding person really care?
Judging by the number of people I see on Halfrauds special mountain bikes with a cadence to rival a clenbuterol upped TDF winner ( while actually going less than 5 mph ) I would say no!
Serious cyclists spend the money on either serious machines or budget willing upgrade as time allows. Hobby riders don't put the miles in to stress components.
DDD you are being shafted me old china. 0 -
^ Now what about those Boardmans? Pricey & high spec, but assembled by the same Halfords mechanics that get slagged off here on a regular basis. A good buy or not?0
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The boardmans are not really assembled by Halfords mechanics.
They break open the box, turn the handlebars around tighten them up & bobs your uncle.
Bang for buck wise you will not get better value.
Stick a few quid in your budget to get a reputable bike shop to check it over & you should not have a problem whatsoever.
Boardmans are not BSO'S they are quality machines in there own right.
Any bike travelling from Taiwan can expect gear indexing to be a bit off.
Halfords mechanics are supposed to carry out a pre delivery inspection.
Not all of them are capable of this.
See your LBS with a few pound notes in your hands to ensure proper set up. 0 -
nmac_2011 wrote:Buy cheap then expect bits to not last as long as say a £2000 pound machine.
This.
The brake blocks on my Vitamin only lasted ~500 miles!FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees
I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
Sorry if this is the wrong place, is it a false economy to replace the front mech but not the chain?
Chappie in the LBS sucked his teeth and said there's no point replacing the front mech without a new chain and possibly rear mech too!
Done about 5000 miles.0 -
snailracer wrote:^ Now what about those Boardmans? Pricey & high spec, but assembled by the same Halfords mechanics that get slagged off here on a regular basis. A good buy or not?
Great bikes!
I have had 3 now (one per year on C2W) - just asked them not to build it and took the box home for self assembly/upgrades!
Very upgradeable and the Team Carbon Road is a peach for the money.0 -
Front mech? What's wrong with the old one? Methinks the LBS chaps is talking bolleaux (unless your chain and rear mech do need replacing).mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong place, is it a false economy to replace the front mech but not the chain?
Chappie in the LBS sucked his teeth and said there's no point replacing the front mech without a new chain and possibly rear mech too!
Done about 5000 miles.
The normal 'wisdom' is to replace chainrings, cassette and chain at the same time. Me, I don't generally hold to all that faff. Chainrings hardly ever get replaced...0 -
OK, I feel a little bad now.
I got my bike back and I have to say it feels amazing and is just a pleasure to ride. Probably the best it has ever felt since it was new.
Chain, cassette, big chainring (a middle chainring, Ultegra, thrown in too), cables, gears indexed and rear mech checked, straightend. Drivetrain completely clean. £150.
Still feel it was a bit pricey and I must remember to buy my own parts of the net (thanks thread). But quite simply its probably the best service the bike has ever had....
I feel real bad now.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
JonGinge wrote:
Front mech? What's wrong with the old one? Methinks the LBS chaps is talking bolleaux (unless your chain and rear mech do need replacing).mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong place, is it a false economy to replace the front mech but not the chain?
Chappie in the LBS sucked his teeth and said there's no point replacing the front mech without a new chain and possibly rear mech too!
Done about 5000 miles.
The normal 'wisdom' is to replace chainrings, cassette and chain at the same time. Me, I don't generally hold to all that faff. Chainrings hardly ever get replaced...
Shop said front mech is knackered. Like I say it's done 5000 and got me over The Pyrenees.
I read somewhere the life of a chain is around 2000 miles.0 -
I hope halfords Carreras aren't falling under the BSO title, infact the halfords guy actually said "you don't want those, they are BSOs" (while pointing at the £80 full suspension bikes).
My Carrera and the one the other guy in work have, seem to be quiet good.
Back on topic on cost I was thinking of sticking hydraulic brakes on it, but its going to be more cost effective for me to wait for the bike to need new drivetrain etc and just buy a new one (be it a better model).0 -
*shrugs* If it's knackered, it's knackered. In my experience front mechs tend to have the greatest longevity of any component. For example my commuter hack has one that is 22yrs old. I wouldn't expect to change my rear mech that often unless I'd crashed the bike...mybreakfastconsisted wrote:JonGinge wrote:
Front mech? What's wrong with the old one? Methinks the LBS chaps is talking bolleaux (unless your chain and rear mech do need replacing).mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong place, is it a false economy to replace the front mech but not the chain?
Chappie in the LBS sucked his teeth and said there's no point replacing the front mech without a new chain and possibly rear mech too!
Done about 5000 miles.
The normal 'wisdom' is to replace chainrings, cassette and chain at the same time. Me, I don't generally hold to all that faff. Chainrings hardly ever get replaced...
Shop said front mech is knackered. Like I say it's done 5000 and got me over The Pyrenees.
I read somewhere the life of a chain is around 2000 miles.
Chains and cassettes wear more quickly. 2k seems a bit low but, hey, they've got to make a living, right? 0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:OK, I feel a little bad now.
I got my bike back and I have to say it feels amazing and is just a pleasure to ride. Probably the best it has ever felt since it was new.
Chain, cassette, big chainring (a middle chainring, Ultegra, thrown in too), cables, gears indexed and rear mech checked, straightend. Drivetrain completely clean. £150.
Still feel it was a bit pricey and I must remember to buy my own parts of the net (thanks thread). But quite simply its probably the best service the bike has ever had....
I feel real bad now.
All that said, I still stand by my position that to the lay person or the casual cyclist some of the costs that circle actually riding the bike can be off putting and it may end up doing more harm than good.
Conversation with a bike shop man (different shop) and he told me he asked the Charge (bikes) rep, how can they justify charging £600 for their standard single speed. Makes you think.Shop said front mech is knackered. Like I say it's done 5000 and got me over The Pyrenees.
I read somewhere the life of a chain is around 2000 miles.
If Jon says something bike related its normally right. So I listen.
On mechs, I would expect the jockey wheels of the rear mech to wear out long before the actual mech does.
I would also expect the front mech to be the last component to wear out. I use that thing like once//twice a month just to make sure its there. All the chain is doing is passing through it, its not rubbing against anything (like the with the jockey wheels on the rear mech). So what heavy daily usage is wearing it out?
On a singlespeed do the chainring and sprocket wear out at the same time?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
mybreakfastconsisted wrote:JonGinge wrote:
Front mech? What's wrong with the old one? Methinks the LBS chaps is talking bolleaux (unless your chain and rear mech do need replacing).mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong place, is it a false economy to replace the front mech but not the chain?
Chappie in the LBS sucked his teeth and said there's no point replacing the front mech without a new chain and possibly rear mech too!
Done about 5000 miles.
The normal 'wisdom' is to replace chainrings, cassette and chain at the same time. Me, I don't generally hold to all that faff. Chainrings hardly ever get replaced...
Shop said front mech is knackered. Like I say it's done 5000 and got me over The Pyrenees.
I read somewhere the life of a chain is around 2000 miles.
If you've done 5,000 miles on the same drive-train, then chances are the chain, chainrings, cassette and rear jockey wheels are badly worn, and he may have been trying to tell you that. He may also be trying to tell you that if you get it all done at once, you'll get more value out of their labour: replacing a front mech is a 10 minute job, so if they have a minimum labour charge he might as well be doing something else.
All the front mech does is move the chain around: it doesn't care whether it's a new chain or an old chain, and it certainly doesn't care what condition the rear mech's in. If you do decide to get the work done, it's also worth questioning whether a new rear mech is desirable or whether you could get away with new jockey wheels. It's the jockey wheels that wear most, and they're a cheap spare.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
All that said, I still stand by my position that to the lay person or the casual cyclist some of the costs that circle actually riding the bike can be off putting and it may end up doing more harm than good.
My dad has an Apollo FS BSO. He's had it for years and done about 2500 miles on it. He's probably spent less than £100 (probably half that) on it in that time. No new chain/rings/cassette. Original saddle with a gel cover on it. Replaced the tyres. Bought a computer, pump, patches and saddle bag.
He doesn't maintain it, he just gets on it and rides. And to be fair, it works. It's heavy as anything, but it runs fine. Sure, the brakes aren't too snappy, and there are a few loose spoke, and the shifts aren't the quickest, but he's spent virtually nothing on it and he's never ridden anything better (until I finally persuaded him to try my Ribble Sportive) so he's perfectly happy chugging away on it. The weight just makes it better exercise!.
If you want to run a bike for next to nothing, you can do. Most 'casual cyclists' probably aren't even aware of the costs. They don't know that you should replace chains or regrease hubs or use expensive bottles of chain lube.0 -
Don't aluminium chainrings wear out much faster than steel ones?0
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snailracer wrote:Don't aluminium chainrings wear out much faster than steel ones?
Yes.0 -
snailracer wrote:Don't aluminium chainrings wear out much faster than steel ones?
Yes.
That's why my utility bike has a £22 steel chainset on it. Heavy but strong and will last forever.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
bails87 wrote:
My dad has an Apollo FS BSO. He's had it for years and done about 2500 miles on it. He's probably spent less than £100 (probably half that) on it in that time. No new chain/rings/cassette. Original saddle with a gel cover on it. Replaced the tyres. Bought a computer, pump, patches and saddle bag.
He doesn't maintain it, he just gets on it and rides. And to be fair, it works. It's heavy as anything, but it runs fine. Sure, the brakes aren't too snappy, and there are a few loose spoke, and the shifts aren't the quickest, but he's spent virtually nothing on it and he's never ridden anything better (until I finally persuaded him to try my Ribble Sportive) so he's perfectly happy chugging away on it. The weight just makes it better exercise!.
If you want to run a bike for next to nothing, you can do. Most 'casual cyclists' probably aren't even aware of the costs. They don't know that you should replace chains or regrease hubs or use expensive bottles of chain lube.
Yeah and I subscribe to this up to a point.
I had a an FS Barracuda snakebite, looked like this
I had that bike for close to 10 years. Never had a service, never been cleaned or even a drop of oil on the chain. I kept it outside throughout the year many times not even covered. The bike I had before that I treated worse and had even longer.
I often wonder what weak materials they make bikes out of these days to need continuous servicing.
Thing is I never rode that bike to the kind of distances or the level of frequency I do my current bike.
The more you demand from the bike in terms of performance and distance, the more the bike will need to be maintained to be safe.
If the casual cyclist is just riding a distance I could walk in an hour (Norbury - Croydon, 2.5 miles) then sure, they probably will never need to incur such costs. But if, say they ride 10miles+ a day (and the current vogue is to cycle2work everyday) then chances are they're going to need a visit to the bike shop at some point.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
The only thing that should need replacing after 5000 miles is the chain, unless it has become badly stretched in which case the cassette as well. That's if it is kept clean, of course.Smarter than the average bear.0
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DDD
I've lost track of what you are complaining about
I think you have too“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
To use an analogy - if you bough a rally car and used it for commuting the cost of maintenance would kill you. This is because rally cars aren't built to last - they are built to be fast at the cost of durability. In a rally car you take out and clean the engine after every race, parts are thin for lightness so they wear much quicker.
On the other hand if you buy a car that's built for riding in the city - let's say a VW it won't go as fast, nor be as flashy, yet it will be much more practical and easier and cheaper to maintain. The parts would be not very sophisticated and fabricated with daily abuse in mind.
Same applies to bicycles - if you buy a racing bike you need to prepare to lovingly care for it, clean it and pay through the nose every time something breaks - and it breaks easily beacuse just like a rally car these bikes are meant to be light not durable. On the other hand a bicycle meant for every day cycling takes into account that the bike will ride be it rain or shine, it's going to stand in the rain. Which is why the parts weigh more but are made more durable, the mechanical parts are covered so you don't get them dirty and so on.
A good everyday bicycle is maintenance free - you only need to adjust the cables/replace the chain/pump up your wheels from time to time.0
