Cost of repairs and other rising cycling costs

DonDaddyD

I took my bike to the LBS for its annual service.

Feeling flush I ask the guy for a full service... £249 inc parts he estimated (cassette, chain, chainring and cables). So back down to just a gear service then. £149 inc parts he estimated. I bought the bike in July 2008 for £350. Keep in mind that I rode more miles and did less maintenance in 2009 and the cost for a gear service, chain, cassette and brakes was £60, which I thought was expensive.

I need this work done and my flat makes it difficult to do it myself.

I'm immune to the cost of cycling clothes, wheels tyres, etc... I also know that I can find near to 2008/09 for most things if you look hard enough.

I know this is the 'era of austerity', 'times are hard', 'manz is broke ya get me'. The rising cost of everything is making everything expensive.

BUT

£750 price for a 2011 Giant Defy 2 with Sora groupset. (Same price as a Giant SCR 1 with 105 in 2008 and the quality hasn't improved that dramatically)

£870 for a Bianch C2C with Mirage. (Is frankly just sickening)

£120 for a full service + parts (My car MOT is less than half this price. I can get a full service for £99)

Makes me feel that the greed trying to capitalise on the apparent cycling boom will eventually push more people away in the long term than encourage them. In the first instance cycling needs to be affordable and then become expensive.

Share your experiences and fears surrounding the rising costs related to cycling.

rhext

You have to check you're comparing like with like. Did you need as many bits replacing last time you had it done? Does the estimate include the same or better quality parts? What does the service actually cover? How much time is the mechanic actually going to have to spend on what needs doing?

As far as the new bike prices are concerned, I suspect a lot of that is down to exchange rate fluctuations over the course of the last 12-18 months. Turns out that, as a nation, we're not as rich as we thought we were!

Mark Elvin

Did the shop have a large glass frontage?????

Wrath Rob

Not sure your car based comparisons add up? MOT isn't a service, its a check that your car is road worthy. Any work required to pass the MOT is additional cost. The full £99 service will be oil change, water and air filter plus a quick check to identify other things that need attention and hence cost. Definitely not a full service as that would include things like changing the belts including cam-belt/chain, changing gear and diff oil etc.

I do minor servicing myself (car and bike) and for the bike, replacing brake pads and cables plus tweaking dérailleurs and oiling a chain is something that everyone can do (Sheldon Brown if you're not sure). Its not expensive and its a relatively simple machine to work on. Invest in a bike maintenance course if you are not sure and want some proper tuition.

However, its the full service that needs the specialist tools and time where I fall down. For example I figured after 3 year's commuting the Boardman deserved a full strip down and rebuild. I've not got the tools (and don't want to spend the cash on something I'll use once a year) and these days I've not got the time so I coughed up. It cost me about £200 for the service, chain, cassette, front big ring, new BB, pads and cables. Not cheap. But by comparison my alternative transport is the Tube which costs £110 a month and makes me ill thanks to the other people spreading their germs. My car needs a full service, it will cost me £250 in parts alone plus 1/2 day labour, so over £400 for something that does about the same miles a year as the bike. And needs tax and insurance.

So, I don't think its expensive for what we get out of it (plus the cost savings vs. alternative transport), though inflation and VAT rises don't help. If you're not happy with apparent "greed trying to capitalise on the apparent cycling boom" then put the costs into perspective and think that there are cheaper alternatives if you're prepared to invest the time.[/url]

rjsterry

Inflation innit. Running at between 3% and 5% I believe, depending on which measure you use.

Motor garages have bigger economies of scale than bike shops, I'd guess, so they can make labour costs appear lower - I suspect the mechanics are on similar wages. An MOT is just an inspection rather than a service, so is bound to be cheaper. Our last MOT was about £50 IIRC, but the work arising from it was nearer a grand (head gasket was leaking, etc.)

Save the money for a deposit, buy a house with a garden/garage/somewhere to fettle and then do your own maintenance. Just get the LBS involved for the tricky stuff like facing bottom bracket shells.

Yeah, bikes (and cars and pretty much everything else) are expensive.

rolf_f

I've just stripped the Dawes to its bones and rebuilt it - all in my dining room though bare boards helps there! Total cost was about £35 for middle and outer chainrings, probably £12 for the chain. Sprockets still look OK after 8500 miles or so but I'll need to take the bike for a spin to confirm that.

Funny thing is, the main issue with the bike is now the wheels. The current ones are cheap and heavy and I've felt vaguely grudging about spending £120 on some new wheels plus a cassette yet that would cost less than 3 tank fulls of petrol.

So, maybe don't worry too much - even if you pay someone else, it is still cheap in the long run.

However, you don't need someone else to replace the chainrings, cables or cassette. Nor do you need much space to do that. If you are going to pay someone else to do work, pay for them to do the trickier stuff - eg service the hubs, set up the indexing etc.

Also depends on the mileage you do - one service would pay for a lot of very nice items from Park Tools but if you only think the bike needs that sort of work every 2 and a half years, the servicing costs won't add up so much.

DonDaddyD

rjsterry wrote:

Save the money for a deposit, buy a house with a garden/garage/somewhere to fettle and then do your own maintenance.

Too be honest this is my main goal. Washing the bike in the bath is no fun....*

I just think that the rising costs are unappealing.

The other thing I'm beginning to hate when you walk into a bike shop, they immediately tell you that you need the cassette and chain replaced. And then upon collection charge for teh brakes they decided to do without telling you.

*Cleaned the bath with ammonia and bleach afterwards

Gussio

I need this work done and my flat makes it difficult to do it myself.

If you are pushed for space, perhaps consider investing in a fold-away workstand? Makes for more tidy fettling.

Moodyman

Learn to maintain your bike yourself and buy parts of interweb.

Plus, you can do your maintenance as and when needed, instead of relying on the LBS to fit you in.

gtvlusso

Hmm - I see what you are saying DDD. But, there is allot to be said for doing it yourself and just fixing what you need to fix. I have a knackered back wheel, but will wait until it is completely unusable before fixing or replacing.

Bike upgrades are my ar$e biter when it comes to bike costs. And my particular car will always cost more than my bike to run!!!!

particularly at £1.35 per litre of diesel.

Therefore; buy a sickeningly expensive car and everything wlse will fall into place proportionally.

rhext

A handful of cheap tools, plus a degree of research on the internet can cut maintenance costs down to the price of parts.

You can adjust gears and brakes with a set of allen keys and a screwdriver (for example). Add an adjustable spanner, lockring tool and a crank puller and you can pretty much do your whole drive-train. A tube of grease gets you a headset service, add a couple of cone spanners and a few pence-worth of bearings, and that's your (Shimano) hubs sorted out. And as long as you keep your bike clean, you don't have to spray oil and mud all round the place.

notsoblue

Purely anecdotal, and probably not part of a trend, but I noticed that the St Paul's evans had reduced their winter clean and regrease service from £30 to a tenner. Probably just temporary, but still. Was almost tempted to take them up on it for my Hybrid (The PX gets a weekly bath ) but it needs some serious fettling and figured they'd just try and sell me a more expensive service.

Having said that though, the last time I got my hybrid fully serviced, it honestly felt like a new bike. Was a dream to ride. Worth every penny imo. Had it done here: http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/

spen666

Moodyman wrote:

Learn to maintain your bike yourself and buy parts of interweb.

Plus, you can do your maintenance as and when needed, instead of relying on the LBS to fit you in.

I'm not sure he will be able to afford parts of interweb.
Have you seen how much facebook costs for example?

rhext

notsoblue wrote:

Purely anecdotal, and probably not part of a trend, but I noticed that the St Paul's evans had reduced their winter clean and regrease service from £30 to a tenner. Probably just temporary, but still. Was almost tempted to take them up on it for my Hybrid (The PX gets a weekly bath ) but it needs some serious fettling and figured they'd just try and sell me a more expensive service.

Having said that though, the last time I got my hybrid fully serviced, it honestly felt like a new bike. Was a dream to ride. Worth every penny imo. Had it done here: http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/

I found this the last time I got my bike fully serviced too. In fact, it felt so good, I decided to work out what they'd done to it. As it happens, it's not too difficult to keep it feeling like that.

My advice is to take up Mountain Biking. Given how badly a single muddy ride can screw up your bike, you have to find out out to maintain it or it'll bankrupt you.

notsoblue

rhext wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Purely anecdotal, and probably not part of a trend, but I noticed that the St Paul's evans had reduced their winter clean and regrease service from £30 to a tenner. Probably just temporary, but still. Was almost tempted to take them up on it for my Hybrid (The PX gets a weekly bath ) but it needs some serious fettling and figured they'd just try and sell me a more expensive service.

Having said that though, the last time I got my hybrid fully serviced, it honestly felt like a new bike. Was a dream to ride. Worth every penny imo. Had it done here: http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/

I found this the last time I got my bike fully serviced too. In fact, it felt so good, I decided to work out what they'd done to it. As it happens, it's not too difficult to keep it feeling like that.

My advice is to take up Mountain Biking. Given how badly a single muddy ride can screw up your bike, you have to find out out to maintain it or it'll bankrupt you.

Actually, to be fair, the bike was primarily in for a new BB, so that would have been the bulk of the improvement. But things like replacing old brake/gear cables and reindexing etc are cheap as, and worth it imo. When on my road bike it annoys the hell out of me when theres an odd noise, some rubbing, or anything else that stops it from running smoothly and as such I like to be able to deal with these things myself. But for the old hybrid workhorse, things can build up and its more of a hassle to take it to bits so I'm more likely to outsource that.

tx14

I changed my bike's drive train early winter. spent about 60 pounds for a 8 speed kmc chain, 8 speed shimano cassette, an fd for a double and a 105 5500 chainset. all brand new.

do it yourself, spend the difference on tools and a nice meal.

Bassjunkieuk

If it's just a cassette and chain change that doesn't need much room and time and the experience you gain is invaluable, not to mention the service costs! I've managed to change both those parts at my house in about the same amount of space I can fix a puncture, whip the rear wheel off and remove cassette and replace.

The chain was probably the trickiest part as my old one was EXTREMELY stretched so I had to count links, once I'd shortened the new one I re-attached that. Again a bit fiddly but great hands on repair experience. The initial outlay may be higher as you may need to purchase the tools to perform the repair but that depends on what you have already. I think to do all that I used only tools from a Lifeline toolkit I'd got from Wiggle for about £40 (in a sale IIRC)

I haven't tried doing my cables but can't imagine that would need more space. As far as costs go I do believe it is just due to EVERYTHING costing more. As you point out getting a bike like our SCR 3.0's with the same spec and price BRAND NEW nowadays is virtually impossible.

DonDaddyD

DDD wrote:

I need this work done and my flat makes it difficult to do it myself.

I've changed cassettes, hubs, etc before. It's impractical and messy. Plus I do this once a year as the guy tells me if there is anything else wrong with the bike and I often repair those throughout the year...

But for those who cannot either do the repairs themselves (like burds) or have the available space to do the repairs, I would say that the rising LBS costs are beginning to look like more of a barrier.

Moreover, the initial outlay for a bike (not everyone is confident about every single item buying off t'net there are some items you simply prefer to buy instore) looks more increasingly like a barrier to me.

rjsterry

I'd agree that bike maintenance in a flat can be a pain. Our old flat was on the 3rd floor, and was carpeted throughout, so after a couple of messy mistakes, I was banished to the stairwell (just about manageable for minor stuff) or outside for cleaning, which was a real pain: cary bike cleaning stuff + enough clean water down and leave just inside door to stairwell; walk back up and retrieve bike; try to hold heavy security door open at same time as wheeling bike through and carrying cleaning stuff an buckets of water; clean bike; carry wet bike + cleaning stuff bak up three flights of stairs.

Sailorchick

notsoblue wrote:

Purely anecdotal, and probably not part of a trend, but I noticed that the St Paul's evans had reduced their winter clean and regrease service from £30 to a tenner. Probably just temporary, but still. Was almost tempted to take them up on it for my Hybrid (The PX gets a weekly bath ) but it needs some serious fettling and figured they'd just try and sell me a more expensive service.

Having said that though, the last time I got my hybrid fully serviced, it honestly felt like a new bike. Was a dream to ride. Worth every penny imo. Had it done here: http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/

All evans are running this offer till the end of February. Took mine and hubby's into the MK branch to make use of the offer as I'm useless at bike maintenance so seemed worth it to me. (Hubby gets fed up doing all my bike stuff so treated his bike too). Does make a big difference to how the bike feels. They actually didn't try and sell service/parts which surprised me as my bike is a 3 year old carrera subway that gets minimal maintenance and is used all year round. - they actually told me it was in good nick for its age/amount of use!

vorsprung

Maybe it is because you are living in the Southeast where everything is expensive?

I tend to do all my fixing/fettling myself. I don't have a nice workshop, I have a dark and cramped garage or it's outside on some gravel. I have all the tools but no workstand. I must get one. During the recent snow/cold I had to fix the chain and it was horribly cold.

I usually do the jobs at home because the nearest bike shops that are any good are 15 miles away. Sometimes I have outsourced jobs like changing the cables to the bike shop as this is time consuming, tedious and I'd have to order the right bits. Whereas the shop just has them in stock. The cost of this was not off putting, it was under 100 quid including all the parts. If I'd have done it myself it would have been about 30 quid for parts I guess.

Last year I bought a new commuter bike and since then I have replaced the brake blocks, the chain and the bottom bracket myself. If my LBS had have done this I would guess it would have cost just over 100 quid.

Next year I guess I will need another chain, a sprocket and the hub gear will need some fresh oil. DDD if you ran an Alfine or single speed instead of your racing thoroughbred then maintenance would be much cheaper.

notsoblue

vorsprung wrote:

Maybe it is because you are living in the Southeast where everything is expensive?

OT, but this is such a myth... Closer to the truth is that you're more likely to see people offering premium goods/services down south, this doesn't mean that the basics aren't available for a fair price.

tailwindhome

Perspective.

60 litre tank of diesel is about £78 to fill

DonDaddyD

I agree that doing it yourself is ultimately cheaper.

Not everyone can, will or want to.

Bikes and repairs are getting expensive.

What was once an affordable option to some is looking less so. This worries me.

I may store this thread for 2012 when we are all ranting about having to pay bicycle user road tax or some such....

You'll see.

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

I agree that doing it yourself is ultimately cheaper.

Not everyone can, will or want to.

Bikes and repairs are getting expensive.

What was once an affordable option to some is looking less so. This worries me.

I may store this thread for 2012 when we are all ranting about having to pay bicycle user road tax or some such....

You'll see.

It's definitely getting more expensive, but then so is walking (cost of shoes + food) and everything else. I'd say that the cost of motoring and PT are going up faster, at least in London, so it's still the cheapest option bar walking (which isn't really practical for your commute )

fnegroni

Isn't it funny that on one hand, some cyclists recommend supporting our LBS's and on the other, complaining about the prices.

I do not support my LBS, but I support my local network of cyclists. I am member of a club, and when I needed to replace the BB of my commuter (probably the one job in the past I would have used an LBS for), I just emailed the club if someone could lend me the tools.

Within minutes I found someone within cycling distance who could.

The only part I had to buy was the BB. Decided to go the expensive route and pay £25, but could have just as easily spent £10.

Took me two hours to do, principally because I was double checking everything I was doing and also needed to re-adjust the front derailer due to new BB being slightly narrower (better Q factor). If I had to do it again, it would probably take me 20 minutes. An LBS mechanic should be able to do it one handed...

When I commute and see someone who has a breakdown, I offer to help. I might even give them my spare tube if necessary. For free. How nice is that?

My tenant recently asked me if I could recommend a shop to service his hybrid. I suggested he comes round one evening and I'll do it while he waits.

Bottom line is that if you can't do it, somebody else can. For the cost of a beer.

We (cyclists) just need to network more.

P.S.
I have a wife and children. And do have other hobbies. I even develop free software, and I am one of the laziest persons on the planet. If I can do it...

DonDaddyD

Rjsterry,

Personally I think shoes are getting cheaper, not sure why. I just think more deals are there to be found and (maybe its because I aspired) buying £110 - £130 Nike (comes with an air bubble) just isn't cool with the kids anymore.

Food is more expensive. And I would never claim that PT or driving could ever be cheaper than cycling, certainly at £1.25 per litre. I mean WTF why isn't there a riot or a fuel strike?

Anyway. My issue stems from me finding that the service and inshop parts was expensive - though I did once spend £125 on a Ultegra tripple being fitted to my bike along with the new brakes. But also these increased costs acting as a barrier to entry to new joiners of the cycling fraternity...

davmaggs

Labour (wages and overheads) is high in the UK so it's becoming less worthwhile to repair things and the businesses that do still service items have shifted from skilled mechanics to fitters (they just replace parts). This means they can't tune, tinker, or repair. They want to fit the part and the job is done.

DDD you do far more miles than I do (I've been on BR more than the bike in the last 3 months), but it might be worth questioning whether you really do need to replace so often, and whether the whole lot needs doing. The idea of replacing all parts at the same time is because its better for the trade and not for you.

rhext

Cycling costs may be rising, but I don't think they're rising as fast as motor or public transport. I don't see any decline in financial incentives to cycle even if the basic cost is rising.

And as far as the servicing costs are concerned, you're paying for someone's time. It's impossible to say if a labour charge of £120 is 'too expensive' without any context re what work actually needs doing and how long it's going to take. If your bike needs half an hour's work doing on it then £120 would be a bit steep, but if it needs 12 hours work doing on it then £120 would be a bit of a bargain!

fossyant

Without reposting what others say about prices in general going up, a bike is a simple machine, it's not rocket science to fix, and you can even get detailed instructions off the web, including 'how to videos'.

I'd be seriously bancrupt if I didn't service the 8 bikes in my garage, 4 are mine.

If it's a messy job, find a newspaper you can put down to protect furnishings, or better still, buy an off cut of lino.

Buy the tools as and when you need to do a job - it will still be cheaper than paying the bike shop.

It's all about preventative maintenance anyway - i.e. do it before it REALLY needs doing.

DonDaddyD

rhext wrote:

Cycling costs may be rising, but I don't think they're rising as fast as motor or public transport. I don't see any decline in financial incentives to cycle even if the basic cost is rising.

And as far as the servicing costs are concerned, you're paying for someone's time. It's impossible to say if a labour charge of £120 is 'too expensive' without any context re what work actually needs doing and how long it's going to take. If your bike needs half an hour's work doing on it then £120 would be a bit steep, but if it needs 12 hours work doing on it then £120 would be a bit of a bargain!

As an entity unto itself (so seperate from comparisons to public transport)

To some £120 is a lot of money.

Therefore to those people £250 when you include parts to this service becomes too expensive.

I'll get the work done because I can afford it and I have two bikes and am fully dedicated to cycling. But to the average joe bloggs I can see them just letting the bike sit there as they fall back into the public transport trap.